Swim Bladder, Tired, Or What Scared Fish Will Die

Alright so.. I got a small betta tank as a "beta tester" to see if I could keep a fish alive because as I child I killed off more tiger barbs than imaginable and I would always cey my eyes out because I love animals so much.
I have really bad ADHD so my parents thought I wasn't feeding but I was..
When I researched fish as an adult a few months ago, I found out you should not do complete tank changes and clean gravel all at once like my dad always did. so I thought you know what I love fish, maybe it wasn't my fault so I got 1 beta, a bigger sucker fish so the betta wouldnt bother him, and 1 snail.
They did great, I used drinking water as their water and all the chemical levels always tested great. he got a little bit of ich, I treated him, all better.

SO I get a used 11 1/2 gal from my bf dad's. I scrub it all clean bc it was awful with calcium deposits etc you know

and I go to pet store, I asked if I could put sand in with gold fish man said yes, and he said only do water changes every 3 weeks or month when I change the charcoal filter pouch thing monthly. (I hate the look of gravel, so I buy those glass pebbles n such for betta tank)
I saw lilly (the black one) pick up sand, gravel a lot and spit it out so I got worried and dumped in more of the gravel from what the 1st owner used to use to cover it up so lilly wouldnt suck some in and choke. Also when I put them into tank I saw filter was broken so I freaked out and went to walmart to get a new one (I live in the middle of now where, only pet store we have charges over double the price for same brand and supplies as walmart so..) I go get new one awesome it works right?

I feed them peas when they get constipated etc, they follow me around, are not ready to be hand fed quite yet but they are getting social so I thought they were happy.

Suddenly a lot of decorations had brown stuff on them. I am like ohkayyyy.. somethings not right..
I have been super busy with finals these last two weeks. so instead of playing with them a lot I talk to them a bit while feeding and that's that.

So I got out a tester... the nitrate and the other one, nitrit? was BEYOND THE SCALE LITERALLY SO DARK PINK IT WENT PAST BOTTLE!
SO I started sobbing at 2 am bc the stress from finals, my clubs, and now this, I just broke (I have really bad anxiety ptsd, do therapy etc but ugh very stressful time atm)

I am sobbbbbing. I know to ppl they are "just fish" but I wanted to socialize them, train them, be friends. these things can live for decades I feel as a pet owner it is my duty to always provide the best I can. So I am just breaking between the stress of finals for 17 credits and being officers in two clubs and now I am convienced my fish will flop over any second and die.

So I go to walmart, all filters are tetras.... but there is normal tetra, and tetra whisper, I had two tetra whispers that were for 5-10 gal break within last 3 weeks.

So I get normal tetra for 10-20 gal.

Then I dump out 80% of water, take out gravel to get rid of sand bc I read online someone was having filters die repeatedly and they had sand also... so then I remove MORE water, Iw ould say they had 1 gallone, maybe 2 of old water. I dump in half a bucket of water I had pretreated that was tap (we have HORRIBLE WATER, takes so much treatment chemicals isn't worth it price wise vs drinking water gallons), my fish don't have a bottom, and very little water, and the nitrate is still HIGH, not past the bottle high but now at highest shade so I'm liek whatever, guys stay alive 1 hr plz, I will fix this. I come home set up new filter take a bit more water out, and put in 8 gallons of dranking walter which always tests great on the testers. now the nitrate is in caution zone, and it doesn't appear to be having a bateria bloom like when I first set tanks up.

and I thought about it... and I thought to myself.. you know my betta stares at gold fish tank a lot.. (side by side) and he gets along with his snail and sucker fish.. so maybe he has a good temperment for tank buddies. So I add him and mates into gold fish tank. I watch him for 4 hours checking on everyone, and the gold fish are playing, he is playing, I put in his betta castle which the gold fish can't fit into incase lilly decides to be a jerk (lilly, when he plays tag, likes to mouth at happy(other gold fish), he doesn't suck his fins in, or tear them off, he just likes to investigate, and mouth things a lot lol but he did kill a snail once mouthing him)

everyone seems so happy you know? I fed gold fish last night in the front, and I fed jallah the betta in the back thru an opening so he gets his own food. I had also put in his filter bc its electrical part is on the floor to muffle sound and wedged it into what I assume is a gap in the back made for heaters. so now they have a bubbiler, a small filter on one cornor, and the big tetra filter on other side.

so they have a lot of bubbles. a lot. everyone seems great jallah is so happy last night swimming up, down, around, no one bothers anyone else.

I go to bed, wake up, check water, nitrate is alllmost in safe zone..

but jallah is either very very tired sleeping.. (he has this horrible habit of sleeping face down in rocks so I think hes dead, or laying on the bottom of the tank to nap lol hes like, trying to be nemo or something IDK lolol)

or something is wrong.. I woke him up for feeding time using the hand held end of the fish net so he wouldnt spaz out thinking I was trying to catch him, I just wanted to gently wake him up and guide him to that back to get him in the habit of being fed in the back so he wouldnt compete with goldfish in the front for food.

he just keeps... laying down though... and I don't know.. I know he can swim he seemed so delighted last night in the large tanka nd the gold fish even lilly the **** never bothered him.

I think bc with his fins he seems about same size lol

I redecorated their tank too, and the gold fish like to weave around the stacked rocks.. and then jallah has his safe space.. but he just keeps.. laying there...

are bettas prone to swim bladder? what is this? did he just wear himself out swimming so much?

and FYI, I DO intend on getting them a very large tank once they grow, ohkay? I just did not want to spend the $$ and find out I truely am an awful fish keeper.. once the gold fish grow I am getting them all a very large tank to suit their size and prevent stunted growth.

I have attached photos of betta tank set up b4, gold fish tank before, and photos now of them all living together, before when seperated they had a rock in each tank, now together they have the rocks stacked, and the betta castle.

then I have photo of the two filters, and jallah is once again, sleeping on the gravel.. which is his normal sleeping spot.. he did swim when I nudged him a bit for feeding time, but went back to sleeping idk what is wrong with him! ☹️ is he just very tired from being so active? his privios tank was only 1 and a half gal bc as I said we didnt want to spend a lot at first only to find out I an a terrible fish keeper

I have done everything I can think of to do the best job I can!!! ☹️ so now I am asking for help bc obviously everything the fish ppl tell me at the store is all wrong.. plz.. help.. I love my fish and I feel so horrible I let their tank get so bad... and now its fixed and jallah is sleeping a ton so idk!!! ☹️ Is he tired? is it swim bladder? if he was hiding I would think hed be in castle he enjoys napping in it when hes not face down in gravel but now hes sleeping all the way down which is usual. when he naps its usually nose diving into the gravel vertically if hes not napping inside a rock

I have also attached a photo of the chemicals I used to treat tap water when emergencys happened, my fish medicene I used when jallah was sick, and calming salt stuff for tank buddies, then the betta has blood worms if he wants but he prefers pellets, and the gold fish get flakes in the AM, goldfish pelets in PM, with a snack of a pea in afternoon if they they look bloated.

I am trying so hard Idk what I am doing wrong please hellllp..... I know ppl keep betta by themselves but I read on the rare occasion you get one with a good temperment they CAN be tank buddies and I though jallah would be good bc he was in such a confined space with sucker fish and the snail that he wouldnt care and he seemed so happy last night... just now I test my water and ph, softness, and nitrate are all low now thankfully so idk what is wrong.... plz.. help.. I don't want to accidentally kill them..
PHOTO ORDER:
(not sure if photo 1 will be 1st listed, or last)
photo 1: betta small tank starter kit, mirror looks bad in back bc filter didnt have a cap so would flick water up

photo 2: gold fish tnak set up b4 gold fish

photo 3: jallah hiding behind fake flower base after eating.

photo 4: all the chemicals, food types I offer fish and bottom feeders, medications also with a tester stick I JUST used.

Photo 5: new tank, everyone together, seeming happy.

Photo 6: the top of tank, the small filter that has zero electric compenents built into it, they sit on floor attached by air tube is what I am pointing to.

Please tell me what is wrong, is he tired? do betta get swim bladder? what should I do? he seemed so happy last night swimming all over the place! the gold fish didnt bother him one bit!

the last photo is hallah hiding .again..

the fish together, jallah seemed so happy last night

jallah and the goldfish seem fine together last night..

 

Test both tanks please. Need to know ph, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites... and temp. Bettas like it warm. He could be extremely stressed or shocked. Your story was very long so I skipped the end. Sorry

 

First of all I would not put the betta and goldfish together, they have opposite temp requirements. Bettas like it around 80 degree Fahrenheit. Goldfish are considered cold water fish.

Personally I would rehome the goldfish and just keep the betta since you don't know when you are able to upgrade to a large enough tank for the goldfish. It looks like a fancy which two fancies can do okay in a 40 gallon I believe.

Also need to know your water parameters.

 

chem levels:
nitrate: 0
Nitrite:0
soft/hardness: 75(soft)
alkalinity:between the 40 and 80 shade of colores
pH:6.8


Tank temp: 74(no heater) used two thermometers, just put heater in to bump it up a bit to higher 70s to see if he gets more active...

heres a pic of him from just now, I nudged him and he moved a bit then laid back down, as you can saw gold fish do not bother him and they don't mind swimming close together.

 

Ok the first thing I'm noticing is that your tank is not cycled. Most likely when I type this it is going to give you a hyperlink for a nitrogen cycle, click on that and please read it. Not having a cycled tank can cause a lot of stress on your fish and put you at risk for bacterial infection

 

chem levels:
nitrate: 0
Nitrite:0
soft/hardness: 75(soft)
alkalinity:between the 40 and 80 shade of colores
pH:6.8


Tank temp: 74(no heater) used two thermometers, just put heater in to bump it up a bit to higher 70s to see if he gets more active...

heres a pic of him from just now, I nudged him and he moved a bit then laid back down, as you can saw gold fish do not bother him and they don't mind swimming close together.

No ammonia reading? Sounds like you are using strips and your tank isn't cycled since nitrates are at zero. 74 is too cold for a betta, bettas need a heater. Goldfish and bettas can not be in the same tank due to temp. difference as I described before. The low temp is probably affecting the betta as well as being in an uncycled tank with a high bioload of a goldfish.

I would at the very least start with a water change.

 

I plan to upgrade their tanks in 3-5 months, they are young yet. My friend has kept her betta and goldfish together, says her goldfish just mate more with the higher temps but hers will eat the eggs anyways since omnivores so she never actually ends up with babies.

Her other betta though has to be in his own tank as it is aggressive. upgrading wouldn't be a problem cost wise. Just figured since they were so small I could wait a few months and see how I do with them first before upgrading, everything for them is fine now, its the betta that is problem..

I don't know maybe he just wore himself out swimming so much yesterday excited... he swam a looot 0.0

 

Also, your temperature is too high for goldfish and too high for bettas. You're going to have to separate them out again if you want to keep all fish

Fish can survive in less than ideal situations but they will not drive and their lifespan will be shortened. It's like living your entire life with a cold. You can do it and you can survive but you'll never be comfortable or happy or really healthy

 

I plan to upgrade their tanks in 3-5 months, they are young yet. My friend has kept her betta and goldfish together, says her goldfish just mate more with the higher temps but hers will eat the eggs anyways since omnivores so she never actually ends up with babies.

Her other betta though has to be in his own tank as it is aggressive. upgrading wouldn't be a problem cost wise. Just figured since they were so small I could wait a few months and see how I do with them first before upgrading, everything for them is fine now, its the betta that is problem..

I don't know maybe he just wore himself out swimming so much yesterday excited... he swam a looot 0.0

Fish don't really wear themselves out from swimming, I mean that's what fish do they pretty much swim all day. They are designed for that. Upgrading the tank won't do anything about the temp. differences that also needs to be addressed.

 

Definitely don't keep the Betta and goldfish together. I would put the Betta back in his old tank for now (be sure to acclimate him for temperature). Seriouslyfish is a good place to look for profiles on fish needs, just keep in mind that most fish prefer the middle of the ranges listed on there. It doesn't sound cycled. Do you have a reading for the ammonia? Also keep in mind that test strips aren't very accurate. Bettas need about 80 degree F water and goldfish don't do well with heaters.

 

I am not sure how long you have been on here, but I have learned one very important thing from my 6 months of talking to people on here... People almost never agree with each other on here so when they do you need to listen

 

It was cycled b4 fish with pic where its cloudy and zero fish., then it was cloudy from bacteria bloom, added them when it was cleared. ,-,

It's slightly cloudy now from doing all the water changes since the pet store man obviously wrong on how often to do do water changes. ugh I never shouldve listened to him the internet said every 1-2 weeks, but he was like, with the filter you have just do it when you chance pouch (monthly) ;-; I had hoped I had kept enough of the old bacteria in it to prevent another new tank syndrome, but it's having a slight one;_;


I just wanna know if my betta is having swim bladder or you guys think hes worn himself out, he's always slept weird(Sideways, or nose diving it into the gravel napping), but hes sleeping a lot this morning.


perhaps I will just re set up his small tank, and when I upgrade gold fish give him their current 11 1/2 gal since he did seem so happy to have so much room.

 

That sounds like a good plan. In the meantime you should clean out his old tank and put him back in there until you have the new one. And your tank needs to have a water change at least once a week, but that does not mean you have to change the filter cartridge. You also don't need to buy the cartridges at the store you could just buy a sponge and ring it out when it gets gross.

 

what about goldfish in ponds in the summer though? And my friend who says at higher temps her goldfish just mate more but are happy? I ordered special loaches to put into goldfish tank that look like sting rays, the pet store guy said get a heater for them, ugh >.< I should just stick to doing my own research apparently he knows nothing sigh. None of this would have happened if he had not told me not to do a water change until filter needed a replacement, and if my first two filters had not broken. I hate living in the country with not other pet store options >.<

 

LOL it can be very frustrating. Once you figure out the basics you can start to have an easier time testing things. Do basic Google searches about your fish temperatures and other parameters and then buy fish accordingly. Tropical fish should stay with tropical fish. And a water Pond without a heater is probably still going to be more cool then the temperatures that the betta needs to be comfortable. I'm not sure if you're taking any science is right now but you'll learn that water has a high temperature naturally and it wants to stay in that 70 range but you need to push it to be even warmer than that for bettas

 

That sounds like a good plan. In the meantime you should clean out his old tank and put him back in there until you have the new one. And your tank needs to have a water change at least once a week, but that does not mean you have to change the filter cartridge. You also don't need to buy the cartridges at the store you could just buy a sponge and ring it out when it gets gross.

a sponge? what type? the cheap yellow with dark green scrapper side? or a specific brand/type?

Thanks guys, like I said upgrading is no problem at all, I just did not want to make HUGE investments then find out I really am a fish owner, and I was doing so well past 4 months with beta, so I figured get a used tank with all supplies, then upgrade them ina few months once I know I am doing well. Following pet store mans advice though has completely screwed everything up...

I really do care a lot for these guys I was sobbing last night when I saw the nitrate reading, I care so much for them and want to socialize them and teach them tricks and things. As soon as something goes wrong I either run to the forums or run to the store for medication like when betta got ich but it was only 1 spot, instead of ignoring it, I ran that day for medication. I check on them and inspect their fins etc each day, see if they are bloated and need peas, and change up food to get more nutrients. I really am trying to give them best possible enviorment, and I love them so much ;-; this nitrate spike was so horrible though I never should have listened to him ty

 

I will find my betta some warm temp tank mates then when its time to upgrade goldfish in 3-4 months, he is a really laid back little guy personality wise, and minds his own business, I feel bad having him alone I feel like hed be lonely... I will use a gallon of water I have spare for his old tank(gallon and a half) since that tests out well without treatments and put in a lil of that betta safe to add some nice bacteria for him and move him back, he did not have heater in small tank, but it was smaller so probably was at a higher temp. Anytime I check his tank with a meat thermometer its usually about 76. when he gets to inherit the hand me down tank Ill get him a heater and keep him at 80. I was so happy last night to see him so happy with all the space poor lil guy, its going to be like getting the best present ever for xmas then getting taken away the next day xD oh poor jallah <3

 

I go to Home Depot and buy the giant Yellow sponges with no scrubby thing and cut them to size and use them in all eight of my tanks. That way I never have to worry about taking the filter out when I'm medicating my fish and I can keep the water going. You also want to make sure that when you change out your filters cartridge use keep the old one behind the new one for a day or two to make sure you don't lose your cycle.

Everyone here can attest to understanding and appreciating your crazy fish Lady Love, and I'm sure everyone here has jumped a little too quickly into getting a new fish without doing all the research they need. Bettas are not social they don't mind having passive tank mates but pretty much anything that swims in the middle of the tank like it does is fair game to be picked on. They can be non aggressive but they are still territorial no matter what you do. They are best to have with snails or sucker fish, as long as you don't get a big giant sucker fish, larger shrimp are okay but the smaller ones can get eaten and probably will. Most of your bottom feeders are fine and they'll even help you clean up the mess that your fish makes

 

Definitely don't keep the Betta and goldfish together. I would put the Betta back in his old tank for now (be sure to acclimate him for temperature). Seriouslyfish is a good place to look for profiles on fish needs, just keep in mind that most fish prefer the middle of the ranges listed on there. It doesn't sound cycled. Do you have a reading for the ammonia? Also keep in mind that test strips aren't very accurate. Bettas need about 80 degree F water and goldfish don't do well with heaters.

Yes, it was cycled, the empty tank photos was during cycle so you could see whole set up, and no fish were in tank during cycling with initial set up. The tank right now is very sliiiightly cloudy from changing too much water but I really needed to dullite the nitrate levels.
I was planning on getting one of those expensive testing sets with the vials once my student loan money etc/xmas money came in along with a larger tank for the goldfish. I realize the small test strips aren't most accurate but I thought better than nothing.

 

Yes, it was cycled, the empty tank photos was during cycle so you could see whole set up, and no fish were in tank during cycling with initial set up. The tank right now is very sliiiightly cloudy from changing too much water but I really needed to dullite the nitrate levels.
I was planning on getting one of those expensive testing sets with the vials once my student loan money etc/xmas money came in along with a larger tank for the goldfish. I realize the small test strips aren't most accurate but I thought better than nothing.

If he is going to a 11 gallon tank then I recommend only having maybe two other swimming fish in the tank with him. I have a 40-gallon breeder that is divided into essentially 313 gallons and it gives just enough coverage for everyone to get away from each other