swallowed a brick?

Discussion in 'Goldfish' started by octonaut, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. octonaut

    octonautValued MemberMember

    Hi, our common goldy (Mr Gold - you gotta love 6yo orignality!) has suddenly developed a big squarish lump on the left side of his stomach. Most of the time he's his usual self, and he definitely enthusiastic about food (and begging for more) but sometimes he seems to be drifting. He's also starting to hold his tail round in a bit of an angle as though his tummy is pushing it to the side.

    To start with I thought it was constipation or overeating as I noticed the lump the day after I gave them frozen bloodworms (they normally have tetra bloodworms in jelly) and they had been pretty enthusiastic about them. I've given them extra veggies and they've been eating them with relish, even the peas which they normally don't care for, but it's still unchanged. I've noticed some poop which has the rope like consistency I associate with stoppered up goldies, but this morning he was trailing white mucus, which I didn't like the look of one little bit.

    Water params are ammonia 0 (max 0.5 after filter crash 3 weeks ago....lots of water changes and prime) nitrite 0 and nitrate 15-40 (daily outpt of about 30ppm) a bit high I know, but I've ordered lots of plants for their tank which should be here this week.

    Diet is based on tetra gold japan mini pellets (extra roughage to prevent constipation in fancy goldfish) and supplemented with a variety of veggies (peas but not hugely keen, broccoli - they LOVE it, sweetcorn very popular, garlic) bloodworms, daphnia. I'm very very careful about not overfeeding too. certainly when I gravel vac thoroughly each week there is very little food that comes up.

    So, does anyone have any ideas what's up with Mr Gold and what I can do with it?

    Attached Files:

  2. I keep fish

    I keep fishWell Known MemberMember

    Maybe he eat a rock while feeding.
  3. wisecrackerz

    wisecrackerzWell Known MemberMember

    I'd like to ask a few questions, the answers to which might help narrow some things down.

    When he feeds, does he normally feed off the bottom, off the surface, or from the water column?

    Any swim-bladdery looking issues, like trouble balancing, sinking while "sleeping", bobbing around, etc?

    How old is this particular fish, and where did you get him (i.e. is he a "carnival fish" or a "feeder fish" or from a breeder or somewhere else entirely)?

    Anything up with any of your other fish (the shubunkins are what i'm particularly interested in; they're more similar to the common)? Everybody's eating fine, etc?

    How big is he? I don't need an exact length, but a rough approximation would help.

    How long/wide is the tank? I'm not familiar with the 180L and it's dimensions.

    How long has he been like this? days? weeks?

    Depending on the answers to the above; it could be something swallowed (this would be very bad, and depending on what it was, your options, vet care, etc, he may need to be euthanized). it could be a rock, or a chunk of wafer-shaped food that was gulped down whole before it began to break down, and is now stuck. I've never seen this in person, but I've read about it... it doesn't sound pretty.
    it could be a tumor, if he's older, or from questionable breeding stock, like a carnival fish or a feeder; not a lot of attention is payed to the way these fish breed, and they can be subjected to fierce in-breeding and all the genetic diseases that come from it.
    it could be an internal infection, but i wouldn't have even the slightest clue how to diagnose that; is there a vet hospital in your area that will look at fish?
    there's a few other things it could be, but hopefully with some more details we can narrow it down. best of luck to you and your fish.

  4. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    It looks like a tumor to me.

  5. wisecrackerz

    wisecrackerzWell Known MemberMember

    that's the direction i'm leaning in, too, but i was hoping more info might point to something less... terminal :(
  6. yukoandk

    yukoandkValued MemberMember

    Possibly a tumor, but I personally haven’t seen a tumor grow so fast. If it is a tumor there is little you can do other than surgical removal (I have no experience in this one). My inclination would be to try an anti-parasitic med. In the US metronidazole and praziquantel are pretty standard for internal parasites, but I’m not sure if they’re available in your area. Certain dog/cat dewormers can be used, but you’d have to calculate the dose carefully, and again, active ingredients in them would be different from what I know in the US. Perhaps you can do a search for aquarium meds labeled for internal parasites.
  7. snapperWell Known MemberMember

    I agree with trying the anti-parasite food. I've seen fish develop odd squarish lumps from internal worms before. Jungle AP food is great if you can get it.

    I would also discontinue feeding the broccoli (sorry!) and corn.
  8. OP

    octonautValued MemberMember

    Thank you all for getting back to me! I really appreciate it.

    to answer the questions:

    at feeding time they all cluster round noses at the surface eat what falls in their mouths then follow it down chomping out of mid water, to the bottom and pick up from the gravel, I had been wondering if he'd eaten a stone instead of a pellet. They are enthusiastic to say the least, and he's still eating fine (thank goodness!!). If I can ever work out how to take videos on my phone I'll post one....I love feeding time with the goldies!

    Nothing swimbladdery to speak of, just occasional drifting/spaced out, which is unusual for him. Chocky, one of the shubunkins who we bought at the same time has congenital swim bladder problems (always at a slight angle, no matter what, despite change in diet and swimbladder treatments!) has been a bit more slanty than usual but that seems to be clearing with extra veggies. The other shubunkin seems to be pretty perky, and the ryukin just shoulder barges everyone at feeding time.

    Bought Mr Gold and chocky from our LPS in town in August for the grand sum of £3.58 each. so not feeder or carnival, but a long way from pedigree! He was about 2" when we got him but now he's around the 6" mark, despite initial (and totally unintentional) mistreatment because I was new and stupid and believed my LPS.

    The lump does seem to be getting a bit bigger :( I spotted it first time on Saturday, but I'm not sure how much attention I'd been paying as my husband was in bed with the flu the whole of last week.

    I've been looking for anti-parasite meds, but they seem to be pretty nonexistent over here, i can find stuff for treating fungus, ich, gill flukes or lice. I have methylene blue as a genral broadspectrum kills everything but the fish treatment, but I don't like using it as it plays merry with my filters, but better than a sick fish. Jungle or any other medicated foods don't seem to be available in any guise at all. :(

    no corn or broccoli... Mr Gold will be terribly disappointed!x
  9. wisecrackerz

    wisecrackerzWell Known MemberMember

    ich is technically a parasite, but i can't remember if the stuff that kills ich and external parasites would be effective on an internal parasite.
    herm...... how to solve this. there are lots of places online that i'm pretty sure would ship to scotland, but i don't know how soon it'd get there. is there a regional aquarium club in your area that has a website or an email address? they'd likely know the fastest, most reliable way to get ahold of good quality fish medication.
  10. yukoandk

    yukoandkValued MemberMember

    Try looking these up (or something similar in label discriptions):
    -Waterlife Sterazin
    -Waterlife Octozin

    Often Koi/pond shops have a better selection of meds and koi enthusiasts are more knowledgeable in treatments.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2012
  11. OP

    octonautValued MemberMember

    thanks! I've managed to find sterazin from a koi shop in the midlands. Should be here in 2-3 days, but that might mean up til Monday. Just not sure he'll make it that long. He's really taken a turn for the worse this afternoon (perked up at tea time though!). I think it's pressing on his swim bladder now as he's tilting as he's "hovering".

    I have in the house methylene blue and malachite green. should I try either of those while I'm waiting? not looking good.
  12. wisecrackerz

    wisecrackerzWell Known MemberMember

    try PMing yukoandK; best sick goldfish advice i know.
  13. OP

    octonautValued MemberMember

    will do!
  14. OP

    octonautValued MemberMember

    update: my money is now on him having swallowed a stone as he has a second one jammed in his gill on the opposite side from the lump.
  15. wisecrackerz

    wisecrackerzWell Known MemberMember

    you may be able to remove the one in his gill, if you haven't done so already, using a bucket, some clove oil to sedate him a little (don't try to knock him out or euth him, just enough to slow him down some), a wet towel to lay him on, and some rubber tipped forceps (or like, soft tweezers, something grabby) to get it out. I wouldn't usually recommend this, but if he can't breath properly (can't "flap" his gills enough to get enough flow and enough O2) he's going to be in much bigger trouble.
  16. OP

    octonautValued MemberMember

    Sadly Mr Gold died overnight. Thankyou to everyone who helped us.
  17. snapperWell Known MemberMember

    Awww. :( Sorry to hear that.
  18. MD Angels

    MD AngelsWell Known MemberMember

    Aw, sorry about Mr. Gold. :( Sounds like this would have been a recurring problem though :(
  19. psalm18.2

    psalm18.2Fishlore LegendMember

    Very large stones or bare bottom tanks are best for goldies. I had one choke on gravel before.

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