Surprised With Sand Substrate?

I have several aquariums with gravel/pebble substrate and because I started a grow out 10 gallon for hatched albino Cory’s I used white aquarium sand. I am amazed how easy and clean the tank is. Any uneaten food and waste lays on top of the sand, so easy to vacuum it up. I would love to hear any pros or cons anyone has had with sand substrate. I am considering changing all my other tanks to sand.

 

I use sand in all 3 of my tanks and love it. Some complaints I have seen is if the sand is about 3" or more deep is gas pocket buildups. White sand can show debris and algae more then black sand does. If you do sand with live plants you may need to add root tabs or liquid ferts.

 

I use sand in all 3 of my tanks and love it. Some complaints I have seen is if the sand is about 3" or more deep is gas pocket buildups. White sand can show debris and algae more then black sand does. If you do sand with live plants you may need to add root tabs or liquid ferts.

Thanks, so do you have the black sand in all your tanks?

 

I have a siphon with a long head to clean my sand (so the sand won't get sucked up). I heard from somewhere that it's recommended to gently sift your sand (like how you sometimes sift dirt in a plant) with a siphon. Not doing so can release toxins (gas pocket build-up) etc. Not too often but every once in a while.

My siphon is a python brand, size small. The suction power is too weak in my opinion, so I use a different siphon to suck up uneaten food or the fish's poopoo (a lot bigger, has a pump for easier use). Directions say to fully submerge the siphon in the tank, but there's no need to do that, lol. Just fill the siphon all the way with water, let out some air when you put the head of the siphon (while holding the other end up the tub so the water won't spill out) and then let go of that other end.

That's how I keep my sand clean. I don't know about being cleaner than my other tank for my betta, which is a bare bottom, but it's sure easy to maintain and clean up. So far I don't have any cons yet. Actually my first time using white sand since I got corys and obviously gravel isn't good for them.

 

I use both natural colored pool filter sand and Black Diamond Blasting sand in most of my tanks. I personally love that you can see debris better on the sand, that means I know I can clean it! I don't use my python siphon when I clean the top of the sand. I try not to disturb things and simply use air tube line siphoned into a bucket. I have a lot of plants, so can't aerate the sand with the big siphon thing. I simply use my finger and stir things up without uprooting my plants and wood, etc. I make the home made root tabs with Osmocote Plus and use liquid fertilizers and have beautiful planted tanks with both colors of sand. Absolutely no cons from my personal experience. I can grow anything in either sand and they are dirt cheap compared to the fancy "Aquarium Sand: I can get 50 lbs of either for less than $10. The detritus, Mulm, etc all sit on the top and makes a thorough cleaning much more possible.

 

Thanks, so do you have the black sand in all your tanks?

All 3 of my tanks have black sand, 2 of them have black backgrounds. The black on black really make the colors of the fish and plants standout.

 

There is the issue of having to clean the sand and the things that can happen if you don't clean the sand. I find white sand looks not so good when you get a ton of algae growing on it but I do prefer sand over gravel.
Gravel however is less abrasive.

 

I have sand and personally prefer it. However, the downside is ... if you use real sand it will often add SILICA to the water and ... diatoms out the ying-yang!

I used Caribe Sea but if I had it to do over - I'd go for some inert pool filter sand or something.

 

I have sand and personally prefer it. However, the downside is ... if you use real sand it will often add SILICA to the water and ... diatoms out the ying-yang!

I used Caribe Sea but if I had it to do over - I'd go for some inert pool filter sand or something.

The inert sand is silicate sand. It is “inert” because it doesn’t contribute to the ph, kh, or gh. They grow brown algae and diatoms like nuts. The non-inert sands like arogonite and crushed coral sand do not contribute to the nuisance algae (brown and black) growth. However, they raise hardness and ph.

 

The inert sand is silicate sand. It is “inert” because it doesn’t contribute to the ph, kh, or gh. They grow brown algae and diatoms like nuts. The non-inert sands like arogonite and crushed coral sand do not contribute to the nuisance algae (brown and black) growth. However, they raise hardness and ph.

So no joy there either! LOL

 

So no joy there either! LOL

Yeah......pick your poison.

 

I use Quikrete brand of pool filter sand in all of our tanks.

About $7 per 50lb bag at Home Depot.

After thorough washing with a garden hose and 5 gallon bucket, it has zero clouding and the grains fall back down when disturbed.

There are fancier and nicer looking sand options, but I am frugal.

In our 75 gallon community tank, we have about 6 plants, mainly anubias and some java fern. I use Seachem root tabs for those and they have been growing in the sand just fine.

In my experience, I found it easier to clean the sand with a siphon vac versus the gravel we used in our first tank. Gravel can be a chore when it accumulates the fish waste and uneaten food.

A reverse UGF hooked up to the discharge of a canister filter would probably solve the problems associated with cleaning gravel though. The reverse flow of water wouldn't allow the muck to sink deep.

 

I have a siphon with a long head to clean my sand (so the sand won't get sucked up). I heard from somewhere that it's recommended to gently sift your sand (like how you sometimes sift dirt in a plant) with a siphon. Not doing so can release toxins (gas pocket build-up) etc. Not too often but every once in a while.

My siphon is a python brand, size small. The suction power is too weak in my opinion, so I use a different siphon to suck up uneaten food or the fish's poopoo (a lot bigger, has a pump for easier use). Directions say to fully submerge the siphon in the tank, but there's no need to do that, lol. Just fill the siphon all the way with water, let out some air when you put the head of the siphon (while holding the other end up the tub so the water won't spill out) and then let go of that other end.

That's how I keep my sand clean. I don't know about being cleaner than my other tank for my betta, which is a bare bottom, but it's sure easy to maintain and clean up. So far I don't have any cons yet. Actually my first time using white sand since I got corys and obviously gravel isn't good for them.

Thanks, I appreciate the your opinion, will help me keep the sand clean.

I use Quikrete brand of pool filter sand in all of our tanks.

About $7 per 50lb bag at Home Depot.

After thorough washing with a garden hose and 5 gallon bucket, it has zero clouding and the grains fall back down when disturbed.

There are fancier and nicer looking sand options, but I am frugal.

In our 75 gallon community tank, we have about 6 plants, mainly anubias and some java fern. I use Seachem root tabs for those and they have been growing in the sand just fine.

In my experience, I found it easier to clean the sand with a siphon vac versus the gravel we used in our first tank. Gravel can be a PITA, when it accumulates the fish waste and uneaten food.

A reverse UGF hooked up to the discharge of a canister filter would probably solve the problems associated with cleaning gravel though. The reverse flow of water wouldn't allow the muck to sink deep.

Awesome, thank you!

 

The several mentions of pockets of gas seem to assume this gas is bad. Even beneficial bacteria release gas as a byproduct. Most of it is harmless CO2. This also can collect in the sand and form pockets. Many people seem to be assuming any pockets of gas must be poisonous hydrogen sulfide. It may be, but doesn't necessarily have to be.

Use of a plenum under the substrate should almost eliminate the possibility of hydrogen sulfide gas.

 

The several mentions of pockets of gas seem to assume this gas is bad. Even beneficial bacteria release gas as a byproduct. Most of it is harmless CO2. This also can collect in the sand and form pockets. Many people seem to be assuming any pockets of gas must be poisonous hydrogen sulfide. It may be, but doesn't necessarily have to be.

Use of a plenum under the substrate should almost eliminate the possibility of hydrogen sulfide gas.

What beneficial bacteria exactly produce CO2 ?

Let's rephrase : To get CO2 they need oxygin (O2). That's exactly what is lacking in case of these issues and anaerobic bacteria take over.

 

What beneficial bacteria exactly produce CO2 ?

Let's rephrase : To get CO2 they need oxygin (O2). That's exactly what is lacking in case of these issues and anaerobic bacteria take over.

To my knowledge, all the normal beneficial bacteria produce CO2.

Anaerobic bacteria need an environment with virtually no oxygen at all. Water from the tank will circulate through much of the sand, taking with it the oxygen dissolved in the water. The aerobic bacteria in the upper portions of the substrate will consume this oxygen. As the water moves deeper and gets below 0.5ppm oxygen, facultative aerobic bacteria begin to get their needed oxygen from the nitrates in the water. These bacteria will be active until the oxygen drops below 0.1ppm, at which point the purely anaerobic bacteria that can produce hydrogen sulfide can begin to survive.

I'm not a chemist but my understanding is that hydrogen sulfide is not stable in an oxygen environment, so as it begins to rise up through the more oxygen rich layers of the substrate it is neutralized by the oxygen. Only when you disturb a large pocket of hydrogen sulfide deep in the substrate is there any real issue.

Using a plenum under the substrate will allow for enough free flow of very slightly oxygenated water through the entire substrate that the anaerobic bacteria can't take hold. No anaerobic bacteria, no hydrogen sulfide.

 

To my knowledge, all the normal beneficial bacteria produce CO2.

Anaerobic bacteria need an environment with virtually no oxygen at all. Water from the tank will circulate through much of the sand, taking with it the oxygen dissolved in the water. The aerobic bacteria in the upper portions of the substrate will consume this oxygen. As the water moves deeper and gets below 0.5ppm oxygen, facultative aerobic bacteria begin to get their needed oxygen from the nitrates in the water. These bacteria will be active until the oxygen drops below 0.1ppm, at which point the purely anaerobic bacteria that can produce hydrogen sulfide can begin to survive.

I'm not a chemist but my understanding is that hydrogen sulfide is not stable in an oxygen environment, so as it begins to rise up through the more oxygen rich layers of the substrate it is neutralized by the oxygen. Only when you disturb a large pocket of hydrogen sulfide deep in the substrate is there any real issue.

Using a plenum under the substrate will allow for enough free flow of very slightly oxygenated water through the entire substrate that the anaerobic bacteria can't take hold. No anaerobic bacteria, no hydrogen sulfide.

I am not a chemist either, but in my opinion in the nitrogyn-cycle (if we agree to speak about beneficial bacteria in that case) there is no C (carbon) involved but only N, H and O. Ammonia NH3 and ammonium NH4 are oxydized (adding oxygin) into NO2 and NO3. Denitrification can give N2 (gass) and water H2O.

I meand you were stating the gaspockets can also be CO2. The aerobic bacteria (beneficial) don't produce that and the anaerobic don't have O2 to add to the (free) Carbon molecule to make it CO2.
So how can gaspockets be CO2 ?

There definitely be some bacteria that might produce CO2, but those must be aerobic ones and those can't cause gasspockets in my opinion.

 

I have never been able to keep up with sand! I do not like it at all. I love the look but that's about it. I tried white sand twice already and it just looks way too dirty for me. Siphoning is a mess too, it gets everywhere and I couldt keep my plants rooted, they kept coming out of the sand. but... I know a lot of people that use it and love it, so I guess it all depends on you.

 

I meand you were stating the gaspockets can also be CO2. The aerobic bacteria (beneficial) don't produce that and the anaerobic don't have O2 to add to the (free) Carbon molecule to make it CO2.

The bacteria we generally call "beneficial bacteria" that contribute to the nitrification portion of the cycle get our attention because they do convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but this is not to say those are the only things they consume/convert or that other bacteria might also be involved in breaking down the waste products.

The food that doesn't get eaten is loaded with carbon. The fish poop, having originated with that food, is loaded with carbon. The rotting plant matter is loaded with carbon. There's plenty of carbon available. Something is breaking down that carbon-laden material and creating ammonia. It seems not a huge stretch that other non-toxic waste products might also be created and that some of these products may be gaseous.

We also do know that the denitirification process results in the release of nitrogen gas. Since this process, to the extent it exists, occurs fairly deep within the substrate, that nitrogen gas will originate from in the substrate. It shouldn't form pockets since water movement to some extent is necessary for it to form in the first place, but it certainly seems feasible that under certain conditions such pockets may develop.

Since we've both self-identified as not being authorities on this topic, why don't we agree to call it "non-toxic waste gases" rather than specifically CO2? There are lot of bacteria at work that are not anaerobic bacteria and they all produce some kind of waste product. The anaerobes that produce hydrogen sulfide gas are not the only players here.

 

Over my life I have moved from Unicorn Barf (my first tank) > Landscaping Pebbles (african cichlids) > fine silica (killed HOB), > ecocomplete (grows plants like crazy) > sand.
I love sand. I have playground sand in 1 tank, Black sand in 1, white sand in another, white sand + silica (oops, didn't mean to buy the silica), Pool filter sand in 10 (?) tanks and ecocomplete in 6 (?) tanks?
I tried blasting compound once.. once. It is designed to be sharp so you can cut rust better with it. So if you are putting it in a tank with things the like to nose around in sand or dig in it there are issues. I'd be good using it in a tank that had no fish that interact with the substrate.

Sand is wonderful because it grows more bacteria. I'd like to get it working with an undergravel but those are so out of fashion I do not know if you can buy them any more. It is also wonderful for your fish to nose around in.

Notes: Until that tank is really aged in (sand full of nutrients) your will want to run gelcaps filled with Osmocote to keep your plants growing, you make these with stuff you order off amazon (if you are in a humid area you will want to store your extras in the freezer so you do not end up with a big blob like I have). Also prefilters, sand can kill a HOB (so I assume canisters are also at risk) as a kid I lost a beloved fish to this on my silica tank, even without sand I love prefilters (more bacteria).

 

Sand is wonderful because it grows more bacteria. I'd like to get it working with an undergravel but those are so out of fashion I do not know if you can buy them any more.

You most definitely can still buy undergravel filters. You can also get small interlocking plates that allow you to build your own UGF of most any dimension or shape.

 

You most definitely can still buy undergravel filters. You can also get small interlocking plates that allow you to build your own UGF of most any dimension or shape.

Cool.
Any idea what people put the sand on with a UGF? If think things like filter pad would plug up. I'd think filter foam would compress reducing flow and then plug up. If I started with a pebble bed and then sanded the top I'd think sand would still make it through and a tear down would be a huge mess unless you have the right gravel screen to separate the sand from the pebbles. Maybe they is why we all went canisters, sumps, and HOBs?
I'm thinking that if your are going to have a pool filter sand bottom that having UGF under it would make the substrate into an actual sand filter.

 

I have never been able to keep up with sand! I do not like it at all. I love the look but that's about it. I tried white sand twice already and it just looks way too dirty for me. Siphoning is a mess too, it gets everywhere and I couldt keep my plants rooted, they kept coming out of the sand. but... I know a lot of people that use it and love it, so I guess it all depends on you.

I also heard they're not very good on keeping planted tanks. Some manage to keep them but from what I heard from someone it does get messy, mostly from the siphoning. And some plants require nutrients that the sand can't provide.

 

I also heard they're not very good on keeping planted tanks. Some manage to keep them but from what I heard from someone it does get messy, mostly from the siphoning. And some plants require nutrients that the sand can't provide.

I stuff Osmacote into gel caps and stuff one or two under each plant until the sand gets going. I think the live black worms also help the sand get going by moving waste down into the sand.
Sand on its own has nothing, no nutrients, just neutral stuff.

 

Any idea what people put the sand on with a UGF?

I'd use landscape fabric. You can get it at most any home improvement store for just a few dollars. It's designed for essentially the same purpose but in the garden, not the aquarium. Put that over the UGF plates and it will keep the sand from getting under the plates but still allow water to flow through.

 

I'd use landscape fabric. You can get it at most any home improvement store for just a few dollars. It's designed for essentially the same purpose but in the garden, not the aquarium. Put that over the UGF plates and it will keep the sand from getting under the plates but still allow water to flow through.

/facepalm
There is a 100yd roll of it right outside my window from the landscaping I have been doing.
Well now I feel stupid.

Thanks for the idea. I'm going to try that with my next build out.