Sump Rebuild, In Need Of A New Design!

Kody Grieve
  • #1
HI guys,

so I bought a tank/stand/sump/plumbing combo off an online auction site for a dollar and I'm resealing everything cause there was a few broken panes here and there.

the sump that came with it had 3 baffles all in one spot and nowhere else. all the sumps ive seen (which isn't many) always had 2 baffles at each end (making a total of 4 baffles at least).

the sump dimensions are: 800mm x 400mm x 420mm made from 5mm glass.

what can/should I do with this sump space because if i'm pulling everything apart I may as well put it all back together in the right way.

I want the good, the bad and the ugly. what would work for this size sump, opinions and personal preference. all is welcomed
 
Coradee
  • #2
Giving this a bump up for you
 
Bearwithfish
  • #3
A picture would be very helpful. THen we could try to offer suggestions.
 
Kody Grieve
  • Thread Starter
  • #4

sump.jpg
the current sump is layed out like this (minus the 5" baffle by the return). the dimensions aren't the same, I pulled this from the internet. however it gives you an idea of how its currently layed out.
 
Bearwithfish
  • #5
OH got ya.. without the 5" baffle they just did not have a fuge.

I have run them that way before and the multiple baffles on the in-put side is to trap bubbles.
 
Kody Grieve
  • Thread Starter
  • #6

sump 2.jpg
maybe a design like this? how do you feel about putting media inbetween baffles instead of putting media in areas seperated by baffles if you know what I mean
 
RSababady
  • #7
View attachment 459923
...gives you an idea of how its currently layed out.
HI once again.
I don't use a sump, however I have talked a lot with people who have them and have been keeping fish for a long time. If I were to set up your sump based on the knowledge I have gained over my time of fish keeping, this is what I would do:
  1. Your sump is a saltwater sump - that is why the first compartment is large enough to fit a huge water skimmer. Since you are setting up a freshwater tank, you don't need that much space in the first section. I would:
    1. add a baffle two inches from the top (for safety overflow) and one inch from the bottom creating an initial compartment around 5 inches wide.
    2. remove the right hand side 8 inch baffle.
    3. remove the next baffle from the top, but leave the second 8 inch left hand side baffle where it is. You should now have a second compartment 7,5 inches wide ending with a 8 inch baffle. Since the water will be flowing in here from the right over the top, you may want to place piece of glass as a step or slope to allow the water to spread out around the middle of this section.
    4. Add the five inch baffle you planned on installing with a baffle that is one inch from the bottom and one inch shorter than the 8 inch baffle. This will force the water entering the last section to overflow and go down before entering the last compartment.
  2. I would use the first section as a mechanical filter to remove particles in the water coming from the tank to the sump. So probably a t-piece flowing into two large sock type filter that can be changed easily (not sealed at the top to avoid blockage if the filter material gets clogged up). Air bubbles should freely move upwards in this section.
  3. The water would flow from section one under the new baffle to the next section at the bottom of the sump flowing upwards. I would place a 2-3 inch layer of plastic bio balls just to allow the water to flow along the bottom of this section. On top of the bio balls, I would place 2-3 layers of medium - coarse sponge - you may need to hold them down flat with a plastic grid weighted down with 2-3 rocks. Once the sump is set up, you can figure out if you need this grid and stones or not. This would be one of two biological filter sections.
  4. The water would leave the second section at the top and overflow into the third section flowing downwards onto max of two fine filter sponges . I would leave a largish space at the bottom for water flowing under the second last baffle and out into the final section.
  5. In the last section I would place the pump to send the water up to the tank and a heater element to maintain the tank water temperature nominal.
Effectively giving you something like this:

full.jpg
This should work as a super huge bio sump filter for your freshwater tank. (Guessing it is freshwater as you are in the
Aquarium Forum>Freshwater Aquarium Fish Forum>Freshwater Tank Equipment>Filters and Filtration section.

Not sure why you want to use RO water, but I am sure you do
 
Kody Grieve
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
thanks! this is really good stuff. I have one question though. why do you have the slope glass after the 8" baffle to put the flow in the centre of this compartment if the fall is only 3" (from 8" to 5") surely this would not be large enough of a fall to create areas that have higher flow-rate than others. and no I won't be using RO water because I can't afford an RO unit! hahaha. i've never done salt water before so i've never needed to purchase one. also, instead of using filter socks, can I use a homemade contraption to hold filter floss?

essentially I would put an egg crate stand in the bottom of the 5" section at the start and use that to hold filter floss and a series of sponges with increasing pore density for the mechanical filtration.

filter socks need holders etc and I'm working glass without the tools I really need to be working with glass lol.
 
RSababady
  • #9
HI - I have been hiking in the mountains with our kids for the last week - so please excuse the "quietness" at my end
why do you have the slope glass after the 8" baffle to put the flow in the centre of this compartment if the fall is only 3" (from 8" to 5") surely this would not be large enough of a fall to create areas that have higher flow-rate than others.

I heard this from a guy I know. He says that he needed to find a way of getting the water coming into the compartment to spread out over the filter sponge more evenly. Without something like this (and I am not claiming that it needs to be made out of glass) that sprinkles / spreads the water around, you will have the water pouring into one place and the sponge will tend to get clogged up in that specific area. The problem with having the sponge clog up in one area is that the are stops filtering as water does not flow through it.

instead of using filter socks, can I use a homemade contraption to hold ?....filter socks need holders etc and I'm working glass without the tools I really need to be working with glass lol.

Brilliant! - whatever you make needs to have two functions:
1. get the bubbles out of the water - so they donot pass through under the first baffle and effectively cut off access for the water to get into the sponge upwards.
2. mechanical filter - to catch physical dirt and debris to avoid the sponges from clogging up.

I guess if the falling water flows into jar and then upwards out of the jar and down it's side - this will remove bubbles. anything the holds the filter floss and only allows water to flow through it will work. I have seen huge installation with womens stockings containing filter floss Looked pretty bizare!

essentially I would put an egg crate stand in the bottom of the 5" section at the start and use that to hold filter floss and a series of sponges with increasing pore density for the mechanical filtration.
Go for it. The beauty about sumps is that they are transparent - so you can actually see problems as they occur and address them to rectify issues.

Post a pic once you are up and running - would love to see what you actually get up and running!
 
Kody Grieve
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
thanks for that! I was pondering the bubble issue. mostly due to the noise issue that comes with bubbles existing. I tried a new arrangement which I will upload later but right now i'm up to my ears in engineering math work that I have been too lazy to tackle lol. I thought I might shift the first baffle to the ground, and put the downpipe all the way to the sump floor. this way the bubbles don't even escape the downpipe (and therefore it is a lot quieter). I will elaborate later
 
RSababady
  • #11
I will elaborate later


ok..... I wouldn't have the first section overflowing over the top as the water movement will carry the micro bubbles to the next section and they will accumulate to form large bubbles. You may then experience air locks.......
You just need to think through the water flow and required water pressure at the different stages to ensure that the water is flowing from one section to another in spite of the resistance/drag caused by the filter media. As long as you have that in mind you should be ok. btw, it is better to have fewer larger sections than many small sections. Small sections can be a hassle for maintenance reasons.
 

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