Sump Overflow/return

Hey guys so I've added a 10 gallon sump to my 29 gallon FOWLR system. I'm having a hard time matching the overflow rate with the return pump. I feel like every time I look at the return water level, it slowly gets lower and lower. I thought about evaporation but it gets so low that I don't think that that's the only cause for this. For the overflow box, I have the Eshopps PF- nano which is rated for 200gph (with 3/4in hard pvc) I believe and my return pump is rated for 320gph max (with 3/4in tubing). On the overflow side, I've added a valve so I can turn off the flow if needed. I've read that that should not be necessary but if I don't, the overflow makes so much noise and no water ever stays in the box itself before going down the pipe. And even with the pump at the max, I see the water level continue to rise. Granted I didn't leave it that way for long. Should I keep everything at the max/open all the way and just see what happens? Do I need a stronger return pump? Any advice would be great!!

 

If it’s getting lower and lower that means the pump is pushing more water into the tank than your overflow can handle. You will have to add water for Evap every 4ish days with the smaller sump like that. Especially without glass tops on the tank. I was also in the school of thought that the overflow only goes one speed, not true. It goes as slow or fast as the pump until it reaches a point where it cannot flow as much as the pump is returning ie too strong on the pump side. I used to have a non adjustable pump (dc) with the flow valve but recently switch to currant which is ac. Way quieter and has an adjustable knob for flow.

 

Hey guys so I've added a 10 gallon sump to my 29 gallon FOWLR system. I'm having a hard time matching the overflow rate with the return pump. I feel like every time I look at the return water level, it slowly gets lower and lower. I thought about evaporation but it gets so low that I don't think that that's the only cause for this. For the overflow box, I have the Eshopps PF- nano which is rated for 200gph (with 3/4in hard pvc) I believe and my return pump is rated for 320gph max (with 3/4in tubing). On the overflow side, I've added a valve so I can turn off the flow if needed. I've read that that should not be necessary but if I don't, the overflow makes so much noise and no water ever stays in the box itself before going down the pipe. And even with the pump at the max, I see the water level continue to rise. Granted I didn't leave it that way for long. Should I keep everything at the max/open all the way and just see what happens? Do I need a stronger return pump? Any advice would be great!!

Is your main tank and sump both wide open at the top? The system water has to be in the main tank or the sump, it has no where else to go unless there are leaks. If there are no leaks, it has to be evaporating. I would not recommend using a valve on the overflow side - close it to much and you will overflow the main tank. I built Durso Standpipes for my reef ready 240 gl overflow boxes to take my water noise level from very loud to very quiet - do not know if you can apply the same principal to your Eshopps overflow box.

 

My tanks both have lids on them to help with evaporation but of course some holes for wires and tubing. The pump is adjustable, should I try tweaking it until there’s a little higher water level in the return? Also I can look into the standpipes and see if I can make them work. If that’s the case for the valve, should I just leave it completely open and work around that with adjusting the pump? In theory it should be about equal if not return more water but when the valve is open, the water level just continues to rise in the sump. When I saw that happen I was too worried about it overflowing so I didn’t leave it for more than a minute or so. Should I leave it for a few minutes and see if it evens out?

 

Yes the level will go up or down for a bit depending on how much water is in system. Open valve all the way and turn pump very low. Adjust more flow every minute until satisfied with speed

 

Yes the level will go up or down for a bit depending on how much water is in system. Open valve all the way and turn pump very low. Adjust more flow every minute until satisfied with speed

Ok! I will try that this weekend. Thank you

 

You want to make sure when the pump is off, the overflow stops flowing and the sump isn't overflowing. It means you have too much water in the tank. Do your refills with sump off until sump is a desired level, then turn it on.

 

You should consider "upgrading" your Eshopps overflow to their 1100 model, which has dual drain pipes. That way you can run a proper Herbie overflow, allowing you to silence the drain and use the other drain line as an emergency drain. Your existing setup is a flood waiting to happen. The Eshopps 1100 comes with two "u turn" pipes, which are an inch ID I believe. You don't need to run both, in fact you can use your existing (I assume) smaller diameter u-pipe to match your existing flow. A Spears gate valve on the drain line to precisely throttle the
drain and silence the overflow is worth it . Good luck.

 

So I have managed to match the overflow and return. Lots of noise coming from the pipe itself I think and not the overflow box itself. Maybe some noise from there though. Would having the dual drain really make the pipes themselves quiet? I can hear the water rushing down the pipes and now my tank is near the tv so its annoying to hear. If I switch to the dual drain, will I have another problem with the return flow matching again?

 

I've read people put some sort of netting or an air hose line down the pipe to reduce the gurgle and splashing noise. I tried a little, but it would shift or something and make noise again.. wife made me dump the diy and go canister for quiet operation. It's in our family room ...

 

If u do a proper Herbie return (two drain lines), then yes it will be perfectly silent. In my opinion, too silent!

Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

 

If u do a proper Herbie return (two drain lines), then yes it will be perfectly silent. In my opinion, too silent!

Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

I purchased the dual eshopp overflow and the gate valve you mentioned! Even if I can't get it completely silent at the beginning, I at least know my home is protected from flooding until I tweak it . A couple questions for the pipes, 90 degree elbows cause more noise? Should I avoid them if possible? Also, the emergency drain should be a separate pipe altogether or can I connect them somewhere?

 

I highly suggest using paper and pencil and make a diagram of your setup and post it here before building it out. That way we can help before you permanently glue things together.

You want to avoid turns in your return line. You need full gravity siphon (no air pockets at all) to make it work properly and make it silent. That way you can achieve "full flow". I used vinyl tubing to avoid plumbing PVC bends and elbows. My sump is directly below the tank so it was easy. I got a new bulkhead with built in Barb connector from jehmco.com . That made it super easy. Used 1" black tubing from Dr foster smith site.

 

Here is what I got:

Bulkhead Fittings

Bulkhead: BF1SB - 1” Bulkhead fitting with integrated straight 1” hose barb
slip inlet x barb outlet

1" inner diameter black vinyl tubing

I forgot which size gate valve I got, but I had make sure I could add a slip x Barb adapter into it .

You should get an intake screen if you don't have one already. Near bottom of the jehmco bulkhead page: 1” Slip Intake Screen

 

Here is what I got:

Bulkhead Fittings

Bulkhead: BF1SB - 1” Bulkhead fitting with integrated straight 1” hose barb
slip inlet x barb outlet

1" inner diameter black vinyl tubing

I forgot which size gate valve I got, but I had make sure I could add a slip x Barb adapter into it .

You should get an intake screen if you don't have one already. Near bottom of the jehmco bulkhead page: 1” Slip Intake Screen

So you replaced the bulkhead in order to fit tubing instead of PVC? I don't mind the look of PVC but if it makes it quieter then I'm all for it. The gate valve I purchased said slip PVC but I can see if tubing would still work.

 

Its up to you whether to use tubing or PVC. Ideally the drain line flows straight down into the sump. Minimize 90 degree turns. They sell "angled turns" look more like 120 degrees. Tubing seemed much easier to work with to me so I went with that. I had to find slip x barbed fittings to adapt the Spears gate valve to the tubing though.

 

Hi, this isn’t saltwater but I know more of you guys run sumps than us freshwater noobs.

I sumped my 500L,with an overflow style as shown (I can’t drill the tank) but the overflow can’t keep up with the pump, I’m having multiple issues.

the water level in the aquarium and inside the weir is equal, and the water in the overflow box is a lot lower - my understanding is the syphon is supposed to keep the water level in the weir and back box equal?

 

Your problem is the u-shaped tube going from the tank to the backbox not being able to carry enough volume to keep up. If you can add more volume with more tubes. Should solve the problem.

 

I had a feeling it was that, but it’s a 35mm pvc tube and only has to carry 2000 l/h

also the tube in the overflow back box that drops through the bulkhead to the sump has to be really short otherwisethe flow rate is poor. I thought this was supposed to determine the level of water in the tank?

 

I had a set up like this with the pump returning 2400 LPH to the tank and needed 3x25mm tubes to handle the volume. As to the backbox fitting mine didn't have a tube at all, just the bulkhead. The most important thing is to maintain the siphon. The level of the weir in the tank determines the level in the tank. The level in the backbox will typically be lower than the tank. More volume for the tubes will minimize the amount.

 

Don’t forget the 99 degree turns dramatically reduce the flow as in cut it in half. I agree it’s the pipe is too small.

 

so do I need to add another run to the sump too, or just another tube between the weir and back box?? Everything is 32mm pvc on the way to the sump, then the return is 25mm flexi

 

You need another tube from weir to back box ..

 

Is tour tube u shaped or does it have 90 degree bends?
did you buy this new or used? It does seem weird that it can’t handle 500 gallons per hour. You say 35mm tube is that the drain? What size is the tubing from the weir to the overflow box?

 

I built it myself, it’s 35mm with 90 degree bends, here’s some pics

 

Very nice job. Looks very clean.
90’s are one of the worst things you can have in plumbing though. I would try mocking up and adding another overflow tube.
thereS one of two things happening.
it’s black piping so either all the airs not out of the tubing or the 99’s are reducing the flow so much that you don’t have enough flow. Either way a second tube is the way to go imo. I would just mock it up first and not drill a hole through your plastic rim. But that should do the trick.
Again very nice job and very clean work.

 

Thanks very much for the advice.
initially I planned to use swept 90’s but they were going to be way too bulky to fit with this tank.

I have some spare fittings and pipe left over so I’m definitely going to try retrofitting another 35mm u tube.

I’ll let you know how I get on incase anyone discovers this thread in the future

 

Ok, so adding another tube definitely worked, I’m going to drill this into the tank.

now the gargling is an issue, which is not my main issue...

the back box has sprung a leak (somehow after over a month of being filled with water with no issues..)

I resealed the inside of the box in the corner where the leak is coming from, but it still exists. Anyone got any ideas?

 

The leak comes out through this gap

 

Did you use silicone and is the box made of Plexiglas or acrylic? Silicone does not bond to Plexiglas.

 

Glad you have it fixed.
Something else to thing about is the silicone should be between the acrylic and the glass not just the edge where the glass and acrylic meet

 

Should have added that the best way to repair Plexiglas/acrylic is with an Acrylic, all-purpose, solvent-type cement. Not sure what brands you carry where you live. You can google it to find something suitable.

To fix that leak, you are going to need to remove the silicone sealant. Clean the are well and the apply the cement. Follow the instruction of the cement to allow for drying and curing.