Sump or no sump....

what are the advantages of having a sump and what are the advantages of not having a sump...also the cons of each..... do you have to drill holes or anything? how do you install one.....all details would be aprieciated....

 

Advantages are that it increases your systems total water volume. Larger volume systems tend to have more stable water quality than smaller systems. Also, with a sump you can move a lot of your filtering equipment to the sump, taking it out of sight for viewing the display tank. Down side is...uh...not much. I suppose risk of flooding if things are not plumbed just right.

Agsansoo can answer better as far as the plumbing and installation.

 

ok well how/where would I get one and how do you set it up?

 

Most sumps are DIY affairs. You make it to suit yourself and the needs you have.
Advantages are:
increased volume, as already mentioned
choice of filters. you can select your own media
the option to move not just the filtering but also the heaters out of the main tank

The dis-advantages are:
Risk of flooding; most sumps are installed below the tank, which can lead to problems with siphon effect, difficulty controlling the flow to and from etc
getting the water to and from the sump; It is best to have the pipes drilled into the tank, but if this is not practical, then powerheads or siphons have to be used. This then causes flow regulation problems.

The overall opinion is that if you are not sure what you are doing, either get someone to do it for you, or buy an alternative filter.

 

ok well I have small kids so I can't take a chance on flooding and we rent so....


what would an alternitive filter be?

 

Alternatives would depend on the size of the tank and what you keep in it. If you are running a reasonable size of tank, as in 55 gallons + then a cannister filter would be a good option, if it's smaller then either HoB or internal filters.

It depends on how much money you want to spend and where you live.

In the UK, HoB's are very expensive, Under Gravel Filters are very cheap, in the USA, it's the other way round.

 

Thanks once again LexiMommy, once more you ask a question I had in mind. Also I wanted to ask another question for anyone reading...

Since a sump is not intended for public view, can a sturdy plastic container (like a small trashcan or clothes bin) be used? Will the plastic withstand the salinity?

 

ok....I know what's what for the most part now, but I'm still not sure what I should get.....
is there anyways I could get a piece by piece list of what yall think is nessacary to keep a tank (30-55 gallons) running smoothly....NO SUMP! I know there are more advantages, but id rather try the basics to start out with...what would be "luxery" items yall think are nice to have?

 

Fish!

 

ok aaron! my original plan was to spend hundreds of dollars on a great tank setup and then just watch the empty tank....but your idea is better! lol

your funny

 

Since a sump is not intended for public view, can a sturdy plastic container (like a small trashcan or clothes bin) be used? Will the plastic withstand the salinity?

No reason why not. Most of the small commercially available sumps are manufactured in plastic.

Fish!

That is a luxury that only comes when everything else is right!

ok....I know what's what for the most part now, but I'm still not sure what I should get.....
is there anyways I could get a piece by piece list of what yall think is nessacary to keep a tank (30-55 gallons) running smoothly....NO SUMP! I know there are more advantages, but id rather try the basics to start out with...what would be "luxery" items yall think are nice to have?

Saltwater or freshwater? The two setups are entirely different

 

Thanks once again LexiMommy, once more you ask a question I had in mind. Also I wanted to ask another question for anyone reading...

Since a sump is not intended for public view, can a sturdy plastic container (like a small trashcan or clothes bin) be used? Will the plastic withstand the salinity?

Yes ... Sturdy is the key word. Rubbermaid Brute container are the preferred plastic container for sumps (strong, inert, easy to drill and cheap). Any plastic container should also be food grade, Any container made for holding food will more than likely be "food grade". Others will leak, crack or seep chemicals into the water.

 

my original plan was to spend hundreds of dollars on a great tank setup and then just watch the empty tank your funny

Wow, leximommy! You're weirder than I thought! hahaha! JK

Thanks to the other two answers about plastic.

Leximommy... were you thinking fish only, fowlr, or reef?

 

fish only with live rock....I know everyone says about 1 lbs per gallon of water, but I probly won't have that much....maybe half that..... id want it mainly for my fish, not for the filtering......


can you mix substrate? like live sand mixed with crushed coral.... and how should you do it? half on one side half on the other, one on top and one on bottom....mixed all the way through?

 

fish only with live rock....I know everyone says about 1 lbs per gallon of water, but I probly won't have that much....maybe half that..... id want it mainly for my fish, not for the filtering......


can you mix substrate? like live sand mixed with crushed coral.... and how should you do it? half on one side half on the other, one on top and one on bottom....mixed all the way through?

Just make sure you have plenty of mechanical filtration or heavy protein skimming. Also I wouldn't mix the substrates. Smaller pieces will settle to the bottom, larger will stay on the top. Please stay away from crushed coral, it promotes nitrate build up. Stick with sand.

 

I'm confused. I thought substrate was supposed to be a good thing. The Aquarium Dictionay states this about substrate:

Sometimes anaerobic conditions can form in the aquarium substrate and if these areas are disturbed, harmful compounds such as hydrogen sulfide can get released into the tank.

So, do the pro's outweigh the con's? I'd preffer not to endanger my future fishies at all. Can someone explain?

 

That is one reason why you want to be sure your substrate stays well oxygenated. One way to do that is to include "sand sifting" inhabitants (some types of snails, some types of stars, even some types of fish) that will regularly dig/sift/stir the substrate. Lacking any of those species, another way would be to periodically stir up the substrate yourself by hand.

 

ok well how hard is it to keep a tank with sand? don't you have to vacuum it often? if not how often should you do this and what would be the best way in a tank with sand.....oh and if I have a 50 gallon tank and I changed about 2 gallons a week would that be enough to matter or would I need to do like 12 gallons a month at one time.....and if doing little water changes is good how in the world does it make a difference in such a big tank?


lol sorry just wondering....

 

From what I've been reading, it is better to do small amounts more frequently as opposed to large amounts less frequently. From what I gather, as you build up all the good things you want/need in the water (such as bacteria, nutrients, minerals etc) you want to make sure you keep them there. By doing larger amounts, you take more of those things away at once risking a mini-cycle and harming the delicate balace you so arduously promoted. By doing smaller amounts, you keep enough of those things to maintain a healthy balance and still keep fresh/clean water coming in. I hope this newbie minded answer helps.

 

lol I just read the same thing.....I have been looking high and low around here for a corner tank that doesn't cost more than my rent! lol no luck....I wish ebay had some around here....no luck.....let me know if you find any at any sites or such..... (withen 100 miles of dallas...lol)

 

Dallas! Woo hoo, one of the happiest cities in the US (less antidepressents prescribed, really!)

I'll keep an eye out on eBay! ooh! Time to eat gtg... I'll be back though.... bwahahahahaha

 

lol if you looked at my family you wouldnt think that....I'm glad I got out when I did....lol

 

Its not a corner, but, its a 55G rectangle, current bid@ $25 in Grapevine.




this one's a 10G

 

If all you want is the look, an inch or two of sand will be fine. If you want it for the need of the fishes then you'll need anywhere from three to six inches of sand, depending on the fish. You only want to vacuum once a week, two tops, so as to not kill of much of the beneficial bacteria. You'll want to mix the sand up well once or twice a week (more than just vacuuming) if you are not going to have sand sifting critters. There are some types of vacuums, though more expensive, that allow you to vacuum the sand and substrate and then the vacuum itself filters it out so that the sand, substrate and most of the clean water go back in the tank. This saves you money in the long run by not having to replace as much of the sand and substrate as often. You might want to look into that, I know I will!

 

thanks for that....let me know if you find one like that....also how much it is....oh and I plan on having some starfish and some snails and crabs so.....lol

 

I am starting a saltwater aquarium in a couple of months[if not then I will start it around Christmas]It will most likely be 75 gallons and it is going to be a regular saltwater tank.I will most likely upgrade to a reef aquarium in a few years or so?I want to know if I need a sump.I am starting to buy equipment now so I really need to know.x

 

Depends on what you want to do! If going reef start it now and in a few years you will have an awsome reef!!! Need help ask me? I will guide you through the process but will cost you a good amount to start out . Do you have funds to do this?

 

Ok,thanks.I'll probably start one when I get the tank.I do need some help.I have no idea on how to set one up.x

 

A sump is another tank or container which you put your equipment into. Most sumps are regular tanks that people have inserted either acrylic or glass panels to separate the equipment so the water will go through all or most of the filtration before pumping it back up. Those panels are called baffles.

I have two kinds of sumps that I'm using. One of them is a simple one I made. The water drops down into a chamber where your protein skimmer is sitting. The next section it will go through is the refugI'm A refugI'm is simply what it sounds like. A refugee for pods to to multiply. Its also usually a place to house macro algae. The last section is the return pump.

My other sump is a little different. Water drops into a filter sock (a cloth filter that prevents solids from coming in the sump) in the first chamger. The 2nd chamber is split. 3/4 of the 2nd chamber is the place for the skimmer. A barrier splits the other 1/4 section into a refugim. The two chambers than go into the return pump section.

What I have in my sumps and refugims is:
-A protein skimmer
-A powerhead for refugI'm (optional)
-The sump itself
-A retrun pump
-Filter Socks (optional)
-A refugI'm (optional, but reccomended)
-People put nitrate, phosphate, etc. reducer in they're sumps, but I don't use those. I don't like chemichal filtration that much honestly. I just buy a good skimmer to prevent all those troubles.

You cuould either make or purchase a sump. In my experience and opinion, a DIY one is better. Ready made are over priced IMO. I purchased a 30 gal sump/ refugI'm for $400 bucks when I was new. I made a 40 breeder sump refugI'm with a bigger space for skimmer and sump for roughly $120-150 with everything new.

- a good website for DIY

 

gain or have ready proper funds and knowledge.

 

Not a problem will be happy to help Betta 2004. Just give me a chat!!

 

I'm currently planning my first Saltwater tank which will be a 46 gallon bowfront reef. From what I've read so far it looks like you should start a reef from the beginning if that's what your plan is.

Go to the library and pickup some Saltwater books. I recently read Saltwater for Dummies. I'm currently reading The New MArine Aquarium by Micheal Paletta. This seems like a really good book. When I'm done with this book I'll start The Complete Book of the Marine Aquarium by Vincent Hargreaves.

There are certain fish which are reef safe and some that aren't because they will eat your corals and anemones. This is something you shopuld decide on now before setting anything up.

The common theme in all of my research has been about live rock. Live rock seems to be crucial to a healthy Saltwater tank because it can store a boat load of beneficial bacteria.

Try to pick up some of those books I mentioned.

 

Read read read. And when your done read some more. As mention above get your self some good books. Goggle is an awsome tool if you know what your looking for. Here is a good tip to live by in this hobby, don't buy anyting unless you know how to take care of it. Make sure you can provide what it needs. Don't impulse buy... And yes I recommend a sump, not needed but recomended.Good luck with that.

 

Sorry to go over old ground, but Ive had the question buzzing around my head since I started my tank and have been trawling the forums for info, I found a post from quentin8 which is very simular but it was locked so heres a new one. quentin8's was headed

Is a HOB filter ok for a reef tank?

I am running a small tank also and have the bh-100 skimmer mentioned in the post, after the initial and 2 overflows I have it all running fine (I think)
I googled and google how to set it up and all I could find was other people asking how to set it up also lol, no instructions at all, which wasn't great for someone that's never seen a skimmer befor and only found out what one was afew day befor that!

But back to the original question, with my LF, skimmer, powerhead will that be enough filteration or do I need a sump or canister filter as well?
I would rather not go for a sump as I have no idea how to set one up properly plus I don't think I have the space. I looked at a Fluval G3 filler but... oh my big £££

 

Hello and welcome to Fish Lore!!!! I like sumps over any other filter!! I will explain why the hang on the back is for fresh water tanks to help keep the water clean if used in salt it simply has no benefit, Canister filters also are for fresh not salt they tend to build up nitrates if not cleaned constantly. As for a sump the best thing and is not the only thing is it helps with gas exchange from water circulation you can add live rock or even a refugium you can install your skimmers and other equipment to it there are a lot of benefits on having a sump or a refugium.

 

HI thanks for the response
are most sumps a diy job or do they come in any sort of kit form? Its abit late to get my tank drilled now and I don't think I'd be to good at making my own, is there any rule of thumb for the volume/size also?

 

Actually the DIY is the cheapest and the sumps are some what easy to build if you can attempt it. It does require some plexI glass or glass that the place that you get it can also cut for you. You will need a tank glass mind you that will fit under your tank stand if you have a stand cabinet to work with. If you don't then it can be beside it as long as it is below the tank so there will be no drainage issue. Can you tell me more about the equipment that you have? It's a 90 liter which is about 60 gallons? I don't now about the ratios of gallons verses liters.

 

90 Ltrs is about 24g ish I think, it's on a cabinet so that's ok, but I'm not sure a sump of any size would fit in there so I'll just put it behind if that's no problem, the sump would really help increase my water volume too, I jumped the gun abit and am kicking myself for not getting a bigger tank!
My main confusion is making the correct piping for the siphon and not have it over flow on me?

 

How are you planning for the drain with a over flow box? If you do use one 1 inch works great. And for return from the pump that sits in sump to return water back to the tank 1/2 inch. Here is a picture of my sump that I built in pexiglass and notice the skimmer and the lines for drainage and return.

 

ah great things are becoming abit clearer now, the drain form the DT is the bit I need to sort out I think the rest I'm ok with.
Are there many types of drain? such as the overflow box you mentioned, Ive seen people in pictures with some sort of U-shape piping thing?
Thanks for your help here Stang, much be abit frustrating going over the same old things all the time with us newbies its much appreciated