Substrate Confusion - do some leak ammonia?

I'm looking into the next step of building my 36 gallon: Substrate and decor. I was doing some research since it has been so long since I bought substrate. In my research I came across some ideas that certain substrate can leak ammonia?! Now I'm concerned and unsure on the best substrate for my future planted tank. And am unsure if the substrate I've had in my 20 gallon could cause potential problems in the future. I was thinking Flourite which is what is in my 20 gallon. A mixture of their clay and sand substrate. Any suggestions or advice to ease my mind would be greatly appreciated.

 

you can just do sand and add root tabs/liquid ferts

 

you can just do sand and add root tabs/liquid ferts

I've done my research on those unless it has changed in the last 6 months since I looked into it most fertilizers I can't use because some if the ingredients are dangerous for snails or other invertebrates.

 

interesting I didn't know that

 

interesting I didn't know that

Yes Mystery Snails (and all other snails) definitely fulfill their name. They are definitely misunderstood. Anything containing copper: foods, substrate, decor, and most fertilizers are very harmful to snails. It's not an immediate threat but they will definitely suffer until it inevitably kills them.

 

I knew copper was harmful to marine inverts but not freshwater

 

Other metals that can bother them is Cadmium, Zinc, Lead, and Nickel.

I knew copper was harmful to marine inverts but not freshwater

 

Just use sand, play sand, pool filter sand or blasting sand works just fine. If you are planing on a high-tech setup then expensive plant-specific substrate may work better for you. As for decor, driftwood should be plenty safe.

This tank has a layer of dirt under the pool filter sand.



This one is just normal blasting sand. This one is only a couple weeks old so not very impressive.



Neither tank has fertilizers. I plan on adding a few clay pellets (DIY) around in the non-dirted tank, it shouldn’t bother the snails and shrimp.

I wouldn’t use flourite on it’s own as it is incredibly dusty and rinsing it too much will just wash away all the good stuff. So use a sand cap. I’ve got a tiny 3.4gal with flourite capped with sand, plants do fine but I use seachem flourish. There are some shrimp and snails in there too.

 

Sand cap?

My 20 has a driftwood with Anubias attached to it. And I used black flourite sand. I like the darker color. I think I want to go darker substrate with this tank too.

 

I use eco complete in all my planted tanks and cap it off with river rock.

 

Just use sand, play sand, pool filter sand or blasting sand works just fine. If you are planing on a high-tech setup then expensive plant-specific substrate may work better for you. As for decor, driftwood should be plenty safe.

This tank has a layer of dirt under the pool filter sand.
View attachment 653591

This one is just normal blasting sand. This one is only a couple weeks old so not very impressive.
View attachment 653588

Neither tank has fertilizers. I plan on adding a few clay pellets (DIY) around in the non-dirted tank, it shouldn’t bother the snails and shrimp.

I wouldn’t use flourite on it’s own as it is incredibly dusty and rinsing it too much will just wash away all the good stuff. So use a sand cap. I’ve got a tiny 3.4gal with flourite capped with sand, plants do fine but I use seachem flourish. There are some shrimp and snails in there too.
View attachment 653594

Beautiful tanks are the first two 36 bowfronts?

 

I use pool filter sand and BDBS in all our aquariums.

For my plants I use the Seachem line. My snails are happier than I would like, they keep spawning. I have some Amano shrimp that are several years old As well.

 

I too use pool filter sand or aquarium gravel and my plants grow well. I also use aquarium fertilizer and haven’t had any issues. I had tried different soils like flourite and personally don’t recommend it.

 

Beautiful tanks are the first two 36 bowfronts?

Indeed they are.

Sand cap?

A sand cap keeps the stuff under it from getting into the water column. So no dusty hazy tanks unless you dig around. Usually 1-2in is recommended. Small gravel works too.

 

Ok so any darker substrate for planted tanks do you recommend? Also I'm thinking of keeping my current 20 going but I want to rescape it. So aside for the small amount of the old substrate I'm gonna keep for the BB I'm gonna need a substrate idea for that one too. My 36 is gonna be my communal tank I want all bottom and middle swimmers with brighter colors. So a dark substrate? (I favor black) And my 20 is mostly gonna be invertebrates some of my Cory's, snails, and maybe even some shrimp I've always wanted those. So any substrate ideas for both. I can just order them at the same time and start my scaping at the same time.

Also which substrates cause that ammonia problem? Should I be worried about the flourite in my 20?

 

I have a 90 gallon planted and I used Seacem Florite for the base and used Black Diamond fine blasting sand on top of that. The bag is 100lbs for $9.99. Google it to see if you can get it or something like it local to your area. It is not completely black as there are small orange particles throughout. I like the look.

FYI - It's coal slag used for sand blasting. I'd be cautious about fish with barbells that forage in the gravel as this may harm the barbells. I didn't have issues when I had corys in the tank. Currently my snails and plecos are doing just fine.

Also, do a search on this site for Black Diamond sand. Lots of discussion. I did not experience any of the issues some talked about. Washed multiple times, added to tank and still loving it today. Have had it for over 2 years now. Also, other have had no issues having fish with barbells. I may scare folks with my previous statement and that was not the intent. This sand is no different than any other sand as far as sharp edges.

 

I use a Seachem flourite sand and clay mixture in my 20 gallon with 18 different Cory's and I've had no problems for almost 2 yrs. They are even mating which is how my numbers got so high. I was a little antsy at first about the clay have too many sharp edges for their barbells and the body's of my snails but they don't seem to be disliking it at all. They are always rooting.

 

Also, do a search on this site for Black Diamond sand. Lots of discussion. I did not experience any of the issues some talked about. Washed multiple times, added to tank and still loving it today. Have had it for over 2 years now. Also, other have had no issues having fish with barbells. I may scare folks with my previous statement and that was not the intent. This sand is no different than any other sand as far as sharp edges.

Do you have any problems with it spiking your PH?

 

No. I make my own RO water, so my PH was about 6.8 until I started mixing RO & tap water (treated with Prime) in my storage tank. Now my PH is 7.4 and has been holding steady with no issues.

Here is a pic of my 90 with the Black Diamond. Tank is in disarray as I work an internal parasite issue with my fish. It looked a lot better. The air hoses are for aireation while I treat the tank.


You were asking about different "Black Sand", here is a link to a write up that was done years ago.

Cheap Black Sand Comparison: Spectraquartz, Ceramaquartz, Black Diamond Blasting | Freshwater Substrates - Gravel, Sand 137069

 

You were asking about different "Black Sand", here is a link to a write up that was done years ago.

Cheap Black Sand Comparison: Spectraquartz, Ceramaquartz, Black Diamond Blasting | Freshwater Substrates - Gravel, Sand 137069

This information was helpful thank you. I didn't see any quartz sand on Amazon tho(where I buy most of fish my stuff). Is that a type of sand or brand? I did see Black Beauty when I searched for Black Diamond and I was curious about it. The only thing that concerns me; I have read a lot of reviews claiming these sands to be responsible for their PH spiking. My PH straight for the tap is already pretty high nearing almost 8.

 

Quartz sand is a type of sand. Also known as silica sand. This is what you want to use in your tank if not using the Black Diamond or Black Beauty, which both are coal slag from different manufacturers.

Silica/Quartz sand can be bought in bulk at many different places and generally in white or light brown colors. if you want colored sand then online, your LFS or pet shop but be prepared to pay $$$. Best deals are from stores with playground sand or pool filter sand. It's all about the same thing. The white sand used at golf course sand traps is good to use as well. Yes I know you want black sand, just putting choices out there.

Sand that causes the PH to spike may contain something other than quartz or silica that is interacting with the water stream and is making the water harder. It is always temporary and will improve with water changes.

As with any new tank set-up, there are a lot of things influencing the tank parameters. This is normal and we all do our best to minimize this from happening. I would not get too wrapped up in the sand and PH levels with setting up a new tank. Know what the PH levels are from your water source. If you get a spike with the new sand, do water changes to get it back down.

Stable PH levels are always best. No matter if they are at the top or bottom of the scale. Just know what they will be from your source and stock your tank appropriately.

I've seen most people say tap water usually has PH of 7.4 - 8.0. RO water will be much lower, mine is 6.6 - 6.8. I have to mix treated tap water and RO to keep it at 7.4.

 

Ok so here is my other concern. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the Seachem sand for my plants and do a Black Diamond or Black Beauty sand cap. But do I have to worry about either one of those sands being too sharp for my Cory's barbells? And will I have issues with floating? I read reviews with both these problems.

My 20 was my starter tank and I made a lot of mistakes with the setup of it. The substrate was a disaster. I bought Seachem flourite sand because I was told it was the best for planted tanks. But I didn't know about the 2 inch rule for plants til later. I didn't buy enough originally and the bill to continue buying Seachem to get to the full 2 inches was kinda crazy. So to save a little money I stole some clay substrate from my planted 10 gallon snail tank and still didn't have enough. So my plants did ok for awhile but after a couple months when their roots got too long they started competing with each other for room and nutrients and until they mostly melted away. Those were different species of Cryptocorynes. I now only have a few little baby sprouts and my anubias. So yes disaster.

 

I didn't have any issues with any of my bottom dwellers and I had a couple Cory's. I have not read where anyone else did either.
I'm not saying there can't be issues either as there will be particles with sharp edges. This is material that has not been rolled to round off edges.

If you're referring to particles floating, I had a very small amount. Mostly due to being dry and resolved during the washing. Some floated away when I cleaned it before putting in the tank and the rest sank after a short time. It was not enough to worry about.

 

Thank you this has helped ALOT! One more question: What size do you think would be best for my tank?

 

Sand is grand yet ruined my python.

 

Yes it can get very expensive buying enough Florite black sand for a 55 gallon tank. I bought Carib Sea Eco Complete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate. It's a 20lb bag for $22 on line. Something to consider as it makes a good base for the black diamond to go over top. If you do a deep cleaning of the sand you need to be careful not to go too deep and bring the base up on top. Ask me how I know .

Over time the substrate will deplete it's nutrients and you need to add more fert. Did you add any supplements?

I use Seachem Flourish Tabs Growth Supplement in my tank and things are doing well.

Thank you this has helped ALOT! One more question: What size do you think would be best for my tank?

Not sure what your asking? Size of what?

 

Yes it can get very expensive buying enough Florite black sand for a 55 gallon tank. I bought Carib Sea Eco Complete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate. It's a 20lb bag for $22 on line. Something to consider as it makes a good base for the black diamond to go over top. If you do a deep cleaning of the sand you need to be careful not to go too deep and bring the base up on top. Ask me how I know .

Over time the substrate will deplete it's nutrients and you need to add more fert. Did you add any supplements?

I use Seachem Flourish Tabs Growth Supplement in my tank and things are doing well.

Not sure what your asking? Size of what?

On Amazon they have different size abrasions(I believe that's what it is). Like 30/60, 20/40, 12/60 Is what I saw.

I looked into Carib the reviews scared me from it heavily; too sharp or coarse, raised PH, leaked ammonia, hard to clean(one review I fouls complained about white fuzz or mold???)

How do you know lol? With my 20 I haven't actually done a "deep" clean idt. I've vacuumed in slow circular motions but it was easier not to stir it up too much with the clay substrate holding most of it down.

No I have not I've actually been afraid to. Because of inverts.

 

On Amazon they have different size abrasions(I believe that's what it is). Like 30/60, 20/40, 12/60 Is what I saw.

Most people go with the 20/40 medium grade. I believe that is what I used. The 30/60 may be too fine and stir up easily.

I looked into Carib the reviews scared me from it heavily; too sharp or coarse, raised PH, leaked ammonia, hard to clean(one review I fouls complained about white fuzz or mold???)

Interesting. Remember if you use this, it is your base and you will not see it or be cleaning it. So sharp or course, white fuzz or mold is something not to worry about. As far as raising PH or ammonia, I'd be a bit skeptical. It's possible higher PH since it will have nutrients that your plants need, it's just been added and leaching out and over time with water changes this too will settle down. Since the Carib will be part of the bio filtering system without any BB, adding it as new could trigger a mini-cycle until it develops, hence the increase in ammonia. That's why I would be skeptical about those comments.

How do you know lol? With my 20 I haven't actually done a "deep" clean idt. I've vacuumed in slow circular motions but it was easier not to stir it up too much with the clay substrate holding most of it down.

It's best to not stir up you substrate too much when vacuuming as this could trigger a mini-cycle. I have just that going on due to deep cleaning and my parasite problem. Easily handled with water changes.

No I have not I've actually been afraid to. Because of inverts.

Good point.

I'm no expert at all this by any means. Learned everything through trial and error as you will too. Hopefully others who have experiences will chime in add comments.

Remember our tanks are individual eco systems. Each one is different and has it's own idiosyncrasies. You are approaching this right, research and find what you want to do. Make your plan and execute. Take each step slow and find what works and doesn't. In no time you will have it up and running.

Remember to post pic's so we see the new project.

 

I've done my research on those unless it has changed in the last 6 months since I looked into it most fertilizers I can't use because some if the ingredients are dangerous for snails or other invertebrates.

actually most big brand ferts do not contain copper or other dangerous metals, including apI liquid fertilizer and Seachem flourish, which fertilizers did you think were dangerous? Planted aquarium ferts are designed to be invert safe since you keep inverts in planted aquariums, I have yet to see a firtilizer that contains heavy traces of copper.

 

actually most big brand ferts do not contain copper or other dangerous metals, including apI liquid fertilizer and Seachem flourish, which fertilizers did you think were dangerous? Planted aquarium ferts are designed to be invert safe since you keep inverts in planted aquariums, I have yet to see a firtilizer that contains heavy traces of copper.

Any other metals too. Like Zinc, Lead, Cadmium. When I think back it's actually been a lot longer than 6 months since I looked into it. I started my first planted tank towards the end of 2018 and started looking into ferts a month or so later. I didn't realize it had been that long until I started looking back at the dates on the first pics I ever took of my tank.

I'm no expert at all this by any means. Learned everything through trial and error as you will too. Hopefully others who have experiences will chime in add comments.

Remember our tanks are individual eco systems. Each one is different and has it's own idiosyncrasies. You are approaching this right, research and find what you want to do. Make your plan and execute. Take each step slow and find what works and doesn't. In no time you will have it up and running.

Remember to post pic's so we see the new project.

Thank you.

 

Any other metals too. Like Zinc, Lead, Cadmium. When I think back it's actually been longer than 6 months since I looked into it. I started my first planted tank in the towards the end of 2018 and started looking into a month or so later. I didn't realize it had been that long until I started looking back at the dates on the first pics I ever took of my tank.

well like I previously stated, the ferts won’t have harmful amount of any dangerous metals.

 

As CoryFan says, ferts as liquid or tabs are all safe. They would not be in business if they were not. Who would buy it. You can do a search and find many asking the question if they are safe and a lot of responses saying same thing.

 

Ok so after everything said. I can safely go all Black Beauty or Black Diamond and some kind of fert for plants.

 

Ok so after everything said. I can safely go all Black Beauty or Black Diamond and some kind of fert for plants.

in my 36 gal bow front Planted tank I use blasting sand and osmocote diy root tabs and liquid ferts

 

in my 36 gal bow front Planted tank I use blasting sand and osmocote diy root tabs and liquid ferts

That's exactly what I'm working on. I would to see pics for inspiration. If you don't mind.

 

Ok so after everything said. I can safely go all Black Beauty or Black Diamond and some kind of fert for plants.

I'd say yes - Looks like you've made a good decision. Remember that fert tabs are for rooted plants and liquid is for plants that get their fert in the water stream.

Not to go off subject but have you started investigating lighting? Or have you already solved that one?
Now there is a subject that will get all kinds of different opinions and suggestions - lol. If you need help on that one. Start a new thread and stand back...…..

 

I'd say yes - Looks like you've made a good decision. Remember that fert tabs are for rooted plants and liquid is for plants that get their fert in the water stream.

Not to go off subject but have you started investigating lighting? Or have you already solved that one?
Now there is a subject that will get all kinds of different opinions and suggestions - lol. If you need help on that one. Start a new thread and stand back...…..

I'll prolly have to get tabs. I like root plants. Anubias, Cryptocorynes, Ferns, and Swords are my favorite right now.

No I haven't looked into lighting yet. That's was gonna be next. I got a cheaper brand(Nicrew) for my 20 about 2 yrs back and man that thing is sturdy. It's definitely been through some crud.

 

I just bought a nicrew 30 inch aluminum classicled gen 2 planted aquarium light. And so far I love it

 

This works great for my 20 gallon tall

 

That's exactly what I'm working on. I would to see pics for inspiration. If you don't mind.

its certainly has some growing in to do, but here it is. I keep my 6 4 year old giant albino corrys and my guppy breeding colony.