Stumped On The Nitrogen Cycle

Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #81
I would change out at least half the water before dosing the ammonia back up. It will refresh the minerals present in our tap water and necessary for most life including the bacteria we are growing..
Okay got it, I’ll do all that today.

Question, doing this 50% water change. Won’t it also make the cycle take longer as well? Is the idea of water changes during a cycle, slows them down a myth in general?
 
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mattgirl
  • #82
Question, doing this 50% water change. Won’t it also make the cycle take longer as well? Is the idea of water changes during a cycle, slows them down a myth in general?
Water changes shouldn't slow down the cycle. So many folks have been told not to do water changes during a fishless cycle and then they come here wondering why their cycle seems to be stalled.

All of a sudden the ammonia that was dropping to 0 within 24 hours no longer will. A check on the nitrates and sometimes the nitrites too show that they are through the roof. A water change to get them back to reasonable levels usually gets the cycle back on track.

Cycling a tank is a balancing act. Too much of one thing or not enough of another can slow down or even stall the cycling process.
 
Letsfish
  • #83
When cycling a tank I never tested nitrites and nitrates until I was able to consume at least 3 to 4 ppm of ammonia in 24 hrs.Then test the others,if they are elevated do a w/c but continue adding Ammonia until the others are in the specs,then you should be cycled.
 
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Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #84
Water changes shouldn't slow down the cycle. So many folks have been told not to do water changes during a fishless cycle and then they come here wondering why their cycle seems to be stalled.

All of a sudden the ammonia that was dropping to 0 within 24 hours no longer will. A check on the nitrates and sometimes the nitrites too show that they are through the roof. A water change to get them back to reasonable levels usually gets the cycle back on track.

Cycling a tank is a balancing act. Too much of one thing or not enough of another can slow down or even stall the cycling process.
I screenshotted that response so I can remember that months from now, that’s an incredibly clear response compared to what I’ve been reading online & it makes so much Sense.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #85
Hey everyone. Update
Ammonia : 2.0 (last dosed since water change on Thursday)
Nitrite : 1.0
PH: 6.0 or lower.
I took the crushed coral out of the aquarium and refreshed it with new crushed coral.
 
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kallililly1973
  • #86
Hey everyone. Update
Ammonia : 2.0 (last dosed since water change on Thursday)
Nitrite : 1.0
PH: 6.0 or lower.
I took the crushed coral out of the aquarium and refreshed it with new crushed coral.
That low of a Ph will stall a cycle from my own research turn your heater up and try to get your Ph to 7 to keep the cycle going.
 
Momgoose56
  • #87
Hey everyone. Update
Ammonia : 2.0 (last dosed since water change on Thursday)
Nitrite : 1.0
PH: 6.0 or lower.
I took the crushed coral out of the aquarium and refreshed it with new crushed coral.
How much coral do you have in your filter? You don't need to change it.
 
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Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #88
My heaters on 82 degrees already, I had a little bit of it hanging inside the aquarium. I took that out and put a little less then half a cup.
 
kallililly1973
  • #89
My bad I'll butt out. This issue is being resolved by one of Fishlores Nitrogen cycle sisters
 
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mattgirl
  • #90
Hey everyone. Update
Ammonia : 2.0 (last dosed since water change on Thursday)
Nitrite : 1.0
PH: 6.0 or lower.
I took the crushed coral out of the aquarium and refreshed it with new crushed coral.
You shouldn't have to replace the CC. That is the beauty of using it. It raises the hardness thus helps to stabilize the PH. The effects don't stop working like some products. You may need to add more. Adding too much shouldn't spike your PH up too high so go ahead and double the amount you already have in there and see what happens. We need to keep your PH up to at least 7. Higher isn't a problem.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #91
Okay got it, I did add more than I already had in there because I didnt want it to spike too high. ‍♂️‍♂️ Thanks for the quick replies everyone
 
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Momgoose56
  • #92
My heaters on 82 degrees already, I had a little bit of it hanging inside the aquarium. I took that out and put a little less then half a cup.
Okay. If you want to get your tank cycled you are going to have to put the coral in the filter. You were a advised to put 3/4 cup there. Is there some reason you used less than 1/2 cup? I guess you need to make a decision, if you want to get your tank cycled, you'll need to put 3/4 to 1 cup -in a mesh media bag-in your filter preferably in the area circled in red. Take the blue honeycomb thing out of there and put the coral in instead. You can hang or sit -the honeycomb thing under the outflow where you have the coral now. Bacteria will still grow on it. You have enough other bio media in that filter to cycle that tank. You could put 50 lb of bio media in your tank and run it for 6 months and your tank won't cycle with a pH of 6. Right now, the <1/2 cup hanging outside your filter isn't getting enough water flow over enough coral to move your pH.


Okay got it, I did add more than I already had in there because I didnt want it to spike too high. ‍♂️‍♂️ Thanks for the quick replies everyone
You won't "spike too high" with a rock carbonate. It will buffer your water to a certain pH regardless of the amount you put in there. The amount and location of the CC only determines the speed that it buffers the water, not the level your pH rises to. As I said, hanging a couple tablespoons under your filter outflow will take forever to buffer the water. More coral, inside your filter where each fragment of coral surface area gets strong water flow, will buffer the water much faster. You can control the pH your tank remains at with water changes.
 

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Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #93
The PH buffered above 7.0 over night when I put it in the way it was the first time, what caused the drop was the fact that I took some out some weeks ago because I didn’t want the PH to rise too high. So I just put a little less then a cup back in to get the PH back upwards. I was originally trying to avoid water changes because I was under the impression they would stall the cycle. But I definitely had too much, the issue is that I also took out too much. The issue isn’t where I put it, it’s just the quantity.
 
Momgoose56
  • #94
The PH buffered above 7.0 over night when I put it in the way it was the first time, what caused the drop was the fact that I took some out some weeks ago because I didn’t want the PH to rise too high. So I just put a little less then a cup back in to get the PH back upwards. I was originally trying to avoid water changes because I was under the impression they would stall the cycle. But I definitely had too much, the issue is that I also took out too much. The issue isn’t where I put it, it’s just the quantity.
No. The issue is where you put it. As long as there is a buffer in the presence of acid, the buffer will continue to react with that acid until the acid is neutralized and an equilibrium between the two is reached. Adding more buffer does NOT increase the level (pH) that equilibrium is reached, it ONLY increases the speed of the reaction. In your case, less water flow over less buffer resulted in a drop in pH only because the was less surface area being exposed to the water It didn't cause less buffering, it caused a reduction in the speed of the buffering. Given enough time, if you just set 2 tablespoons of CC in your tank full of water at a pH of 6, circulated the tank water through the cc and waited, your pH would rise to well over 7.0 as the carbonates reacted with acidic water.
If you raise your pH up to the optimal level for bacteria replication (7.5-8.5) your tank will cycle much faster. If your tank had been at 7.5 for the last 20 days, you'd probably be nearly done today.
Fumasoli, Morgenroth and Udert (2015)
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #95
No. The issue is where you put it. As long as there is a buffer in the presence of acid, the buffer will continue to react with that acid until the acid is neutralized and an equilibrium between the two is reached. Adding more buffer does NOT increase the level (pH) that equilibrium is reached, it ONLY increases the speed of the reaction.
If you raise your pH up to the optimal level for bacteria replication (7.5-8.5) your tank will cycle much faster. If your tank had been at 7.5 for the last 20 days, you'd probably be nearly done.
Fumasoli, Morgenroth and Udert (2015)
Makes sense, thank you.

So I had a few sponges inside the HOB filter and took them out. I’m letting them just float around in the aquarium for now, I was able to put the crushed coral inside the circled red area. I had to take off that LED light that signals when the pad needs to be changed because the water level in the filter is a little high and it kept flashing. So let’s see where this goes, I’m sorry for all the trouble everyone. I’m also trying to figure things out logically on my own but that hasn’t worked out ‍♂️. So thank you for being so patient with me.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #96
So guess what guys, I checked on my aquarium just now and it turns out the bottom is leaking ‍♂️ My luck right now is just impeccable
 
mattgirl
  • #97
So guess what guys, I checked on my aquarium just now and it turns out the bottom is leaking ‍♂️ My luck right now is just impeccable
Oh my goodness.Like they say, If not for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. If you have to replace it be sure to move everything from this one to the new one so you won't lose all the work you have already done.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #98
Oh my goodness.Like they say, If not for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. If you have to replace it be sure to move everything from this one to the new one so you won't lose all the work you have already done.
Should I fill a bucket with the aquarium water and drop all the filter media,heater, decorations all in or leave it in an aquarium with no water until I get a new aquarium? There’s a loose end somewhere or a crack because when I woke up, the water level was about 10% down.
 
mattgirl
  • #99
Should I fill a bucket with the aquarium water and drop all the filter media,heater, decorations all in or leave it in an aquarium with no water until I get a new aquarium? There’s a loose end somewhere or a crack because when I woke up, the water level was about 10% down.
You need to keep everything in water. A bucket or any kind of container big enough to hold it all will work. It would be best if you could keep the filter running and continue to feed it until you can replace the tank.
 
rohitmrigpuri
  • #100
HI everyone, this is my first real time cycling a tank and I'm just really stumped. I started out with Dr tims and everything seemed to be going okay. I dosed ammonia to 2.0ppm, nitrite rose. But nitrite rose a little too much. Somehow it ended up at or above 5ppm. most likely above and stayed there for days. My ammonia dropped to .25 and I dosed it back up to 2ppm. I read from a lot of sources that high nitrite can stall the cycle, so I began doing a water change a day. 50% first day, 50% the second and about 76-80% the third. By the third day, my nitrite was 1ppm. Ammonia 0. So I dosed it back up to 2ppm. But now, my nitrite seems to be at 2ppm or 5ppm (the colors are so alike that everyone I ask says its either or) for the apI test kid. It has now been 3 days and the ammonia is still at 2ppm and nitrite the same as well. I have been using stability for the past 9 days or so, hoping for a change but nothing. I'm thinking of just stopping the dosage and just letting it sit. But I had ammonia eating bacteria before. What should I do?
Dear,
Will tell you something which worked for me..
Bought new tank on 20th July 2019.
Set it up..added treated water and live powder bacteria. After 3 hrs added 18 fishes, same day..
Everything went fine.
After week I washed my filter under tap water and changed 50% water.
Fishes started to die after 2-3 days.
One than two than three, four..I kept patience..
Bought API TEST KIT..
Test reviled 0 ppm ammonia but .5ppm nitrites..
Now what I did water change, feed reduced to half and added live powder bacteria...
Within 4 hrs. nitrites were zero..
Till date they r zero..I feel Nitrosomonas bacteria r hardy and grow rapidly but nitrobactor are bit lazy in growth..Adding live bacteria worked for me..
After that I added 5 fishes..
Regards
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #101
I was able to grab another 20 gallon aquarium from petco and fill it up enough before I left for class so the filter was running, before that I had everything in a bucket. I transferred everything over to the new aquarium, gravel, decorations. I didn’t set anything just dropped them in so the bacteria hopefully could survive whiles I’m at class. When I get home, I’m going to remeasure everything & dose more ammonia. I did use some water from the original aquarium as well. This all took me about 2 hours to complete.

Finally finished the aquarium. Turns out the stand was giving and it caused the bottom of the aquarium to spring a leak, it’s repairable. I moved the new aquarium (water level reduced to about 25-30%) and moved it to the new location. Refilled it and I just tested.
Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : .5-1
PH: 7.2 (or above)
Ammonia is now dosed back up to 2ppm after that reading.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #102
Update
Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - between 2.0 and 5.0
Ph : 6.5/6.6
I added a tiny bit more to the crushed coral filter media bag. It’s pretty much the most the filter can hold space wise

Good news is that the bacteria survived the transfer ‍♂️
 
mattgirl
  • #103
Update
Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - between 2.0 and 5.0
Ph : 6.5/6.6
I added a tiny bit more to the crushed coral filter media bag. It’s pretty much the most the filter can hold space wise

Good news is that the bacteria survived the transfer ‍♂️
If the amount of CC that will fit in the filter won't get the PH up to at least 7 put more in a media bag and situate it under the filter. The water being pulled in and coming out of the filter will help circulate it and should get the PH up where it needs to be to get this cycle moving forward.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #104
Should I put like a cup in the new filter media bag?
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #105
Update
Ammonia - .25ppm
Nitrite - 2-5ppm
Nitrate - 5.0ppm
Ph - 7.2 (or higher)
Not sure why I always have 5.0ppm of nitrate but at this point I should dose more ammonia again correct?
 
mattgirl
  • #106
Should I put like a cup in the new filter media bag?
A cup of it would be a good start. Crushed coral will only raise the PH to a certain level and then will stop there. Even if it raised yours all the way up to 8 it wouldn't be a problem. It needs to be up to at least seven but higher is not a problem. Too low and the cycling process slows down. Higher won't affect it.

Update
Ammonia - .25ppm
Nitrite - 2-5ppm
Nitrate - 5.0ppm
Ph - 7.2 (or higher)

Not sure why I always have 5.0ppm of nitrate but at this point I should dose more ammonia again correct?
Yes, go ahead and get the ammonia back up to 2ppm.
Are you shaking the #2 nitrate testing solution well just before using it? After adding drops from each bottle are you shaking the test tube for a full minute and then checking it 5 minutes after that?
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #107
Got it. And yeah I even keep track of the time and don’t do it blindly
 
mattgirl
  • #108
Got it. And yeah I even keep track of the time and don’t do it blindly
Good job. They really should start going up before long.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #109
HI everyone, I don’t normally test a day after a test. But I did on a whim, got some interesting results.
Ammonia - .25
Nitrite - between 2 and 5
Nitrate - 5.0
PH - 7.0 or 6.8. I added a bit more crushed coral to the bag inside the aquarium.
Should I dose more ammonia?
 
mattgirl
  • #110
HI everyone, I don’t normally test a day after a test. But I did on a whim, got some interesting results.
Ammonia - .25
Nitrite - between 2 and 5
Nitrate - 5.0
PH - 7.0 or 6.8. I added a bit more crushed coral to the bag inside the aquarium.
Should I dose more ammonia?
I would go ahead and dose it back up to 2
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #111
here are the readings in case I was off. I keep asking if I should dose ammonia because I know spiked nitrite will stall the cycle and the nitrites aren't yet being processed.
 

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mattgirl
  • #112
here are the readings in case I was off. I keep asking if I should dose ammonia because I know spiked nitrite will stall the cycle and the nitrites aren't yet being processed.
As long as the ammonia you add is continuing to go down your cycle is still progressing forward. If you add it and it just sits there then you would want to do a water change to get the numbers down. You aren't there so go ahead and add the ammonia to keep the process fed.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #113
HI so question, I ordered ammonia chloride a few days ago & it’s coming tomorrow. I ran out of the one I currently have just now and was able to drop about 35 drops in (2ppm is about 80 drops.) the ammonium likely won’t arrive til tomorrow around 8pm. Will the bacteria be okay?
 
mattgirl
  • #114
HI so question, I ordered ammonia chloride a few days ago & it’s coming tomorrow. I ran out of the one I currently have just now and was able to drop about 35 drops in (2ppm is about 80 drops.) the ammonium likely won’t arrive til tomorrow around 8pm. Will the bacteria be okay?
It should be fine. Quite often when both nitrites and nitrates show up I actually recommend only adding ammonia every other day so this isn't a problem at all.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #115
I’ve been dosing back up to 2 for past few days I haven’t asked because it’s been dropping to .25/.50. Should I stop that and dose it back up every second day?
 
mattgirl
  • #116
I’ve been dosing back up to 2 for past few days I haven’t asked because it’s been dropping to .25/.50. Should I stop that and dose it back up every second day?
What are your nitrite and nitrate readings.?
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #117
Nitrite : 5ppm or a little above
nitrate : 10
 
mattgirl
  • #118
Nitrite : 5ppm or a little above
nitrate : 10
Just add ammonia every other day but only if it goes down close to zero. If it doesn't go down that low give it an extra day to do so before adding more ammonia. This should give the nitrites a chance to catch up. I am sorry I didn't mention this earlier.
 
Arun365
  • Thread Starter
  • #119
My ammonium chloride got delayed to October 1st-2nd , I’m hoping the ammonia eating bacteria doesn’t die off now. Should a put a tiny bit of fish food into the aquarium?
 
mattgirl
  • #120
My ammonium chloride got delayed to October 1st-2nd , I’m hoping the ammonia eating bacteria doesn’t die off now. Should a put a tiny bit of fish food into the aquarium?
You could and it shouldn't hurt anything but your ammonia should get to you before the fish food decomposes enough to form ammonia.
 

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