Stumped On The Nitrogen Cycle

HI everyone, this is my first real time cycling a tank and I'm just really stumped. I started out with Dr tims and everything seemed to be going okay. I dosed ammonia to 2.0ppm, nitrite rose. But nitrite rose a little too much. Somehow it ended up at or above 5ppm. most likely above and stayed there for days. My ammonia dropped to .25 and I dosed it back up to 2ppm. I read from a lot of sources that high nitrite can stall the cycle, so I began doing a water change a day. 50% first day, 50% the second and about 76-80% the third. By the third day, my nitrite was 1ppm. Ammonia 0. So I dosed it back up to 2ppm. But now, my nitrite seems to be at 2ppm or 5ppm (the colors are so alike that everyone I ask says its either or) for the apI test kid. It has now been 3 days and the ammonia is still at 2ppm and nitrite the same as well. I have been using stability for the past 9 days or so, hoping for a change but nothing. I'm thinking of just stopping the dosage and just letting it sit. But I had ammonia eating bacteria before. What should I do?

 

mattgirl ... I believe knowing the nitrate and ph will also help determine where your at in your cycle... low ph can stall a cycle. I’ll let the nitrogen cycle pros give u the best advice

 

Thanks kallililly1973 You are correct. Knowing the PH and nitrate reading will help determine what is going on.

Arun365 When you did your water changes did you add your water conditioner each time? Did you clean any of your filter media?

It is possible that time will get this cycle going again. Personally I would stop adding the Stability at this point. I've never used any bottle bacteria but have read and think the instructions say with Stability you just add it for 7 days. Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

 

Welcome to FishLore! I hope you find the site helpful.

 

Thanks kallililly1973 You are correct. Knowing the PH and nitrate reading will help determine what is going on.

Arun365 When you did your water changes did you add your water conditioner each time? Did you clean any of your filter media?

It is possible that time will get this cycle going again. Personally I would stop adding the Stability at this point. I've never used any bottle bacteria but have read and think the instructions say with Stability you just add it for 7 days. Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

I will test for nitrate when I get home and let you guys know. I have to buy a PH test.
I did add water conditioner each time, I used too fins dechlorinator. I did not clean any filter media either. I DID however change my filter, I had a fault Aqueon 30 and got a replacement. I transferred the media from the broken one to the new and started it back up again. That was on the 23rd.
And you are correct about the 7 days but it also says add when you do water changes. I’m going to stop dosing it all together.

 

I will test for nitrate when I get home and let you guys know. I have to buy a PH test.
I did add water conditioner each time, I used too fins dechlorinator. I did not clean any filter media either. I DID however change my filter, I had a fault Aqueon 30 and got a replacement. I transferred the media from the broken one to the new and started it back up again. That was on the 23rd.
And you are correct about the 7 days but it also says add when you do water changes. I’m going to stop dosing it all together.

Since you were able to just transfer the media over to the working filter doing so shouldn't have caused a problem.

I will wait until I have more information before I suggest doing anything other than what you are doing now. If we find that your PH has dropped we can deal with that.

It the bottled bacteria has done its job there should be no reason to continue adding it with each water change other than to just keeping you buying more.

 

My nitrates are currently at 5.0 it looks like. I’ll have to try and get a PH test tomorrow after college or while I’m on my break. I actually got sponge and put some into the filter before I got the new one so I could have more bacteria surface area, that was also transferred. Okay, thank you so much For the help. This has been super stressful

 

When did your start this cycle? I am assuming it has been less than 2 weeks but can you confirm that? I am wondering how much ammonia has been cycled so far. May sound like an off the wall question but the answer will help me help you.

 

When did your start this cycle? I am assuming it has been less than 2 weeks but can you confirm that? I am wondering how much ammonia has been cycled so far. May sound like an off the wall question but the answer will help me help you.

I started it on August 12th! So it’s been 15 days since I’ve started it.

It’s been 15 days and I’ve dosed ammonia 3 times to 2ppm. The first time it processed to .25 and I dosed again to 2ppm, then that was when the nitrite spiked way high, my ammonia went down to .25 and I started the water changes. After the water changes I dosed again to 2ppm, that was on Saturday and it is still 2ppm now.

 

It’s been 15 days and I’ve dosed ammonia 3 times to 2ppm. The first time it processed to .25 and I dosed again to 2ppm, then that was when the nitrite spiked way high, my ammonia went down to .25 and I started the water changes. After the water changes I dosed again to 2ppm, that was on Saturday and it is still 2ppm now.

You are very early into the cycle. It is possible that your PH is low and that is causing the slow down.

Since this tank has only processed about 4 ppm ammonia it is telling me that your nitrates aren't sky high and the test hasn't defaulted back down to 5. It happens from time to time and I wanted to make sure that isn't happening here.

. Have you run the tests on your source water? Is it possible that is where this low amount of nitrates is coming from? It is always good to run all the tests on your source water so you have a baseline to work from.

 

But wouldn’t the PH go back up once I do the water changes? Which was pretty recent, no?

Also I’ve done nitrate tests & nitrite tests on my tap, all come back 0.

 

But wouldn’t the PH go back up once I do the water changes? Which was pretty recent, no?

Also I’ve done nitrate tests & nitrite tests on my tap, all come back 0.

Yes it should but if you haven't tested your tap so we don't know what it is. It is great that the nitrates aren't coming from your tap. That tells us that there is both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria growing in this tank. Without them there would be no nitrates at all.

Another member I am working with was using Stability. It has already been 5 weeks for them and they are still not seeing any nitrates at all. It seems for you the Stability may be helping or the nitrates may be there because of it.

Right now it is a waiting game. It takes a lot of patience to cycle a tank.

the only thing I can recommend at this point is check your PH. If it is too low we can work on that. If it is 7 or above nothing needs to be done and all you can do is give it time. I wouldn't do any more water changes right now. I am assuming this is a fishless cycle?

 

Okay, roger that! And yes it’s a fishless cycle. I’ll buy the PH test in a day or so and get back to you here. Atleast there are good signs haha. Thank you so much for the help, I’m trying to get into this hobby properly, first times the toughest for this.

 

I've used Dr. Tim's one and only bacteria and seachem stability. Stability definitely takes longer to cycle, whereas, I've successfully cycled a tank from scratch within 1 week with Dr. Tims

 

I've never used Dr Tims but have used TSS which I think the two are probably almost identical. When I use TSS you add it and do nothing else for 14 days, no other water conditioners etc. Many people use the bacteria with fish in,
so if you are fish less you will want to keep ammonia in there, (not too much) but other then that let it do its thing.

 

I've never used Dr Tims but have used TSS which I think the two are probably almost identical. When I use TSS you add it and do nothing else for 14 days, no other water conditioners etc. Many people use the bacteria with fish in,
so if you are fish less you will want to keep ammonia in there, (not too much) but other then that let it do its thing.

I’ll be sure to give TSS a try if I don’t see any result in a few days. DR Tim’s seemed to start working but stopped at some point for some reason. Thanks for the input!

Yes it should but if you haven't tested your tap so we don't know what it is. It is great that the nitrates aren't coming from your tap. That tells us that there is both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria growing in this tank. Without them there would be no nitrates at all.

Another member I am working with was using Stability. It has already been 5 weeks for them and they are still not seeing any nitrates at all. It seems for you the Stability may be helping or the nitrates may be there because of it.

Right now it is a waiting game. It takes a lot of patience to cycle a tank.

the only thing I can recommend at this point is check your PH. If it is too low we can work on that. If it is 7 or above nothing needs to be done and all you can do is give it time. I wouldn't do any more water changes right now. I am assuming this is a fishless cycle?

just an update, I tested for ammonia and nitrite this morning and readings are still the same. 2.0 ammonia and nitrite 2 or 5. I won't have time to get the PH test today because of work/school but ill definitely grab it tomorrow morning. I also didn't have time to test for nitrates, very busy week haha. By the way, remember when I mentioned that I changed filters because the last was broken? Is it possible that the bacteria is resettling itself since I did change the filter on the 22nd? ill for sure be retesting everything tomorrow, but just a theory.

 

just an update, I tested for ammonia and nitrite this morning and readings are still the same. 2.0 ammonia and nitrite 2 or 5. I won't have time to get the PH test today because of work/school but ill definitely grab it tomorrow morning. I also didn't have time to test for nitrates, very busy week haha. By the way, remember when I mentioned that I changed filters because the last was broken? Is it possible that the bacteria is resettling itself since I did change the filter on the 22nd? ill for sure be retesting everything tomorrow, but just a theory.

You would have lost a bit of bacteria by having to change the filter since it grows on all surfaces but still the majority of it will be on the media.

If we find your PH is really low 6.5 or less we will know why your numbers aren't changing. Hopefully you will be able to check them soon.

 

You are very early into the cycle. It is possible that your PH is low and that is causing the slow down.

Since this tank has only processed about 4 ppm ammonia it is telling me that your nitrates aren't sky high and the test hasn't defaulted back down to 5. It happens from time to time and I wanted to make sure that isn't happening here.

. Have you run the tests on your source water? Is it possible that is where this low amount of nitrates is coming from? It is always good to run all the tests on your source water so you have a baseline to work from.

Do you think it's really slow? I'd think a tank that's already processing ammonia and nitrites and is only 15 days into the cycle is moving along rather rapidly! I think another 50-75% water change every time the nitrites creep back to 5 ppm, redosing ammonia to 2ppm and repeating as often as necessary would have this tank fully cycled in two more weeks or less! The cycle certainly doesn't appear stalled to me. I would keep dosing the water replacements with Stability (as suggested by the manufacturer) until the tank is cycled. It seems to me that the Stability is doing a fabulous job seeding this 2 week old tank. I doubt that the pH is impacting the cycling of this tank in a negative way, -the bacteria are there and are doing what they're supposed to do. Now it's just a matter of feeding the bacteria, regulating nitrite levels and bulking up the bacteria population. That's where the patience comes in. Sit back and let nature do its job!

 

Do you think it's really slow? I'd think a tank that's already processing ammonia and nitrites and is only 15 days into the cycle is moving along rather rapidly! I think another 50-75% water change every time the nitrites creep back to 5 ppm, redosing ammonia to 2ppm and repeating as often as necessary would have this tank fully cycled in two more weeks or less! The cycle certainly doesn't appear stalled to me. I would keep dosing the water replacements with Stability (as suggested by the manufacturer) until the tank is cycled. It seems to me that the Stability is doing a fabulous job seeding this 2 week old tank. I doubt that the pH is impacting the cycling of this tank in a negative way, -the bacteria are there and are doing what they're supposed to do. Now it's just a matter of feeding the bacteria, regulating nitrite levels and bulking up the bacteria population. That's where the patience comes in. Sit back and let nature do its job!

So basically I should do a 75% water change in order to get the nitrite below 5ppm? The issue is though, why would the bacteria just randomly stop eating the ammonia. Think it’s because they’re dying off due to high nitrites? I actually do think it’s because of the high nitrites personally but I could be dramatically wrong & that’s why I’ll be testing for PH tomorrow.

 

So basically I should do a 75% water change in order to get the nitrite below 5ppm? The issue is though, why would the bacteria just randomly stop eating the ammonia. Think it’s because they’re dying off due to high nitrites? I actually do think it’s because of the high nitrites personally but I could be dramatically wrong & that’s why I’ll be testing for PH tomorrow.

No, not a 75% water change. You're going to need to do at least 1 more after the 75% one. If you're nitrites are actually exactly 5ppm (which I doubt) a 75% change will only bring it down to 1.25 ppm. You need it to be less than 1 ppm. You may have to do several 75% water changes esp. if your nitrites are say...10ppm. The issue may very well be because of the high nitrites. I guess we won't know until you actually do those water changes...
Your bacteria aren't dying. If they were dying en masse, your ammonia level would most likely be rising.

I suggest that you do two water changes then retest.

 

should I do them at once right after the other or wait a day to do each?
Also ive had my lights off for the passed 2 days in the aquarium and I'm noticing this.. white fuzz appearing on my heater. Any idea what this is and could it have anything to do with my cycle?

 

Do you think it's really slow? I'd think a tank that's already processing ammonia and nitrites and is only 15 days into the cycle is moving along rather rapidly! I think another 50-75% water change every time the nitrites creep back to 5 ppm, redosing ammonia to 2ppm and repeating as often as necessary would have this tank fully cycled in two more weeks or less! The cycle certainly doesn't appear stalled to me. I would keep dosing the water replacements with Stability (as suggested by the manufacturer) until the tank is cycled. It seems to me that the Stability is doing a fabulous job seeding this 2 week old tank. I doubt that the pH is impacting the cycling of this tank in a negative way, -the bacteria are there and are doing what they're supposed to do. Now it's just a matter of feeding the bacteria, regulating nitrite levels and bulking up the bacteria population. That's where the patience comes in. Sit back and let nature do its job!

This cycle started out like a steam roller and then just stopped. It seemed like the Stability was doing what it is designed to do. The only recommendation I have made up to this point is check the PH level to see if that is why the cycle stopped moving. The ammonia and nitrites are frozen at these numbers.

 

This cycle started out like a steam roller and then just stopped. It seemed like the Stability was doing what it is designed to do. The only recommendation I have made up to this point is check the PH level to see if that is why the cycle stopped moving. The ammonia and nitrites are frozen at these numbers.

any idea what this white fuzzy stuff is on my heater?

 

any idea what this white fuzzy stuff is on my heater?

Kinda looks like a piece of fish food that is growing mold/fungus. If you have one just use your turkey baster to suck it out of there. Every one with a fish tank needs a turkey baster

 

Just give the tank time

 

This cycle started out like a steam roller and then just stopped. It seemed like the Stability was doing what it is designed to do. The only recommendation I have made up to this point is check the PH level to see if that is why the cycle stopped moving. The ammonia and nitrites are frozen at these numbers.

Ah. I guess because the tank is still producing nitrites like gangbusters, I didn't think of it as being stalled. I betcha the ammonia isn't dropping because of the stability the OP has been adding.

should I do them at once right after the other or wait a day to do each?
Also ive had my lights off for the passed 2 days in the aquarium and I'm noticing this.. white fuzz appearing on my heater. Any idea what this is and could it have anything to do with my cycle?

One right after the other.

 

Ah. I guess because the tank is still producing nitrites like gangbusters, I didn't think of it as being stalled. I betcha the ammonia isn't dropping because of the stability the OP has been adding.

Why does stability stop the ammonia from getting eaten? Sorry I’m asking so many questions but I just want a happy aquarium at the end of this and experience to boot.

I think I get it, the stability was building so many ammonia eating bacteria that the nitrite spiked high and now that has the ammonia eating bacteria stalled

 

Why does stability stop the ammonia from getting eaten? Sorry I’m asking so many questions but I just want a happy aquarium at the end of this and experience to boot.

I am actually curious about the answer to this question too.

 

Why does stability stop the ammonia from getting eaten? Sorry I’m asking so many questions but I just want a happy aquarium at the end of this and experience to boot.

Disclaimer: I'm just guessing here, I never said "this is why..." but rather, I said "I betcha the ammonia isn't dropping because...".
This is why I think continuing to use the Seachem makes it appear that the ammonia in the tank isn't being oxidized, when in fact it is being oxidized (as evidenced by continued nitrite production) Nitrifying bacteria are bacteria that use ammonia and nitrites as a source of fuel. Many companies (most companies in fact) that supply biological bacteria for aquariums, do not claim that the bacteria in their product are actually nitrifying bacteria but rather that the bacteria in their product "facilitate the breakdown of waste organics, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate" or, that they make the breakdown of those waste products easier. The fact is, that most of the bacterial supplements available commercially to amateur fish keepers is mostly heterotrophic bacteria, not nitrifying bacteria. These heterotrophic bacteria depend on carbon sources for nutrients. Examples of carbon sources heterotrophic bacteria use are phosphates, dead plants and organic solids --as opposed to nitrifying bacteria which are obligate chemolithotrophs-- meaning they must use inorganic salts as an energy source rather than organic material.
So, here is why I suspect that continuing to add the Stability is causing the appearance of a "stalled" cycle.
1. You have a tank with little or no organic (carbon based) material (dead plant parts, fish poop, fish food, wood etc.) present in it.
2. You are dumping lots of heterotrophic bacteria into the tank (and maybe a little nitrifying bacteria with it)
3. Nitrifying bacteria are growing because you are feeding the tank inorganic salts that encourage it to grow (ammonia).
So, Nitrifying bacteria continue to grow, you continue to add ammonia, you also continue to add heterotrophic bacteria which eventually use up all available organic waste that was in the tank (and there always is some organic material present in stuff we put in new tanks), including phosphates and other carbon based substances in tap water. The heterotrophic bacteria, having depleted the majority of its energy source, begins to die off. As it dies, it decomposes and produces ammonia. You keep adding it and the unsustainable excess keeps dying off, producing even more ammonia.
So, although your nitrifying bacteria are oxidizing ammonia like crazy and producing nitrites like crazy, you don't see the ammonia level dropping, because it isn't. The dying heterotrophic bacteria are producing ammonia at exactly the same rate the nitrifying bacteria are breaking down the ammonia in the tank.
mattgirl was right suggesting that the Stability should be stopped. Water changes will replenish some of the organics that those heterotrophic bacteria need, and then you will start seeing ammonia levels begin to drop again. That's what I think is going on. It's a stretch, but it would explain what you are actually seeing here.

 

Thank you Momgoose56

That all makes perfect sense to me and I can see where it could be causing what we are seeing here. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the instructions say use it for 7 days. I feel sure it doesn't tell you why.

We won't know for sure until after the water changes and actually we really won't even know for sure then but hopefully they will get this cycle moving in the right direction.

I do understand it is still fairly early in the cycle but when everything just stops I have to wonder why. That is when I start trying to rule things out to get to the bottom of what is happening.

It is possible that too much Stability was added. It is also possible that both tank and tap PH is too low. Not likely on the tap but possible in the tank. We can't know until it is tested.

 

Okay...here's how I believe Stability works. The bacteria in Stability is not a self-sustaining bacteria like TSS+ or Dr Tim's O&O. Instead Stabilitty provides a temporary bacteria that helps keep ammonia and nitrites level down by processing them, until the actual; self-sustain bacteria eventually form in your filter. At that time you stop using Stability and the naturally occurring bacteria is supposed to take over. This is why, (at the risk of angering the Stability fans) I'm not really a fan of Stability and I really don't recommend people use it. I always recommend TSS+ since I have used it successfully several times.

 

Thank you Momgoose56

That all makes perfect sense to me and I can see where it could be causing what we are seeing here. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the instructions say use it for 7 days. I feel sure it doesn't tell you why.

We won't know for sure until after the water changes and actually we really won't even know for sure then but hopefully they will get this cycle moving in the right direction.

I do understand it is still fairly early in the cycle but when everything just stops I have to wonder why. That is when I start trying to rule things out to get to the bottom of what is happening.

It is possible that too much Stability was added. It is also possible that both tank and tap PH is too low. Not likely on the tap but possible in the tank. We can't know until it is tested.

hI everyone, so it turns out my PH is either below 6.0 or at 6.0. And that's most likely why the whole cycle has stopped. This probably pertains to high nitrates. so ill be doing 2 consecutive 75% water changes and letting you guys know the readings after.

 

hI everyone, so it turns out my PH is either below 6.0 or at 6.0. And that's most likely why the whole cycle has stopped. This probably pertains to high nitrates. so ill be doing 2 consecutive 75% water changes and letting you guys know the readings after.

Did you run the PH test on your source water too? It is possible that all it will take is the water changes to keep your PH up but it is a good idea the know the PH of the water you are using to do your water changes.

 

Did you run the PH test on your source water too? It is possible that all it will take is the water changes to keep your PH up but it is a good idea the know the PH of the water you are using to do your water changes.

ill do that right now

Did you run the PH test on your source water too? It is possible that all it will take is the water changes to keep your PH up but it is a good idea the know the PH of the water you are using to do your water changes.

this is my PH, I'm partially colorblind so I can't rally guage what some of the colors are unless they're blatantly obvious. This is the test on my tap.

 

It looks like 7.2 to me. Water changes should get your tank up to that level. Keep a close eye on the tanks PH. If it keeps going down you may need to add something to buffer it. I recommend crushed coral. It won't instantly raise the PH but will over time and will hold it at the higher number.

If there is room for it put some in a media bag and place it in your filter. If there isn't room in there put it where water is running across/through it.

 

It looks like 7.2 to me. Water changes should get your tank up to that level. Keep a close eye on the tanks PH. If it keeps going down you may need to add something to buffer it. I recommend crushed coral. It won't instantly raise the PH but will over time and will hold it at the higher number.

If there is room for it put some in a media bag and place it in your filter. If there isn't room in there put it where water is running across/through it.

Gotcha. Some PH down & PH up actually came with my test kit. So I’ll monitor it and if I see it dropping, I’ll dose some PH up. This is what has me stumped though, do I keep doing water changes today until I get my nitrite levels down? Or do I do 2 today and 2 tomorrow? And when I finally get it down to 1ppm or lower, that’s when I finally dose 2 ppm of ammonia again? Btw, thanks to all of you for the help this far. I would’ve been racking my brain and resetting if you guys didn’t pitch in. I’m super grateful.

 

Gotcha. Some PH down & PH up actually came with my test kit. So I’ll monitor it and if I see it dropping, I’ll dose some PH up. This is what has me stumped though, do I keep doing water changes today until I get my nitrite levels down? Or do I do 2 today and 2 tomorrow? And when I finally get it down to 1ppm or lower, that’s when I finally dose 2 ppm of ammonia again? Btw, thanks to all of you for the help this far. I would’ve been racking my brain and resetting if you guys didn’t pitch in. I’m super grateful.

I have actually never used any of the products to change my PH so can't be of much help there. I have very soft water so need something to keep my PH stable. Crushed coral and seashells works for me. With them I don't have to be constantly adding something. Once a year or so I add a bit more CC to replace what has dissolved but other than that it is basically add it and forget it.

I would keep changing water until the PH was up to or above 7. I can't say how many water changes it will take to get to the good numbers. By doing so it will also lower the nitrites. Once all the water changes are done and you have the numbers where they need to be then add enough ammonia to get it up to at least 2.

 

This thread is too long for me to go back and reread, but I posted some info in another thread (just before clicking on this one) that will be partially pertinent to you. So here's a link:
Sand Lowered Ph?

 

This thread is too long for me to go back and reread, but I posted some info in another thread (just before clicking on this one) that will be partially pertinent to you. So here's a link:
Sand Lowered Ph?

Fortunately no fishes lives are at stake here

 

Thanks mattgirl, see I was telling the truth when I said the thread was too long for me to go back and read. But hey, it was still good info right?...(come on, throw me a bone)