Stumped? Angelfish w/ pigment change?

  1. Crissandra331

    Crissandra331 Valued Member Member

    So I've recently been having a heck of a time with my temperature,we're use to pretty mild summers over here and this year we have been in a really bad drought. I've had my temperature under control and consistent now but one of my Angelfish has been in QT after showing signs on ich and was treated. I noticed before that, she was enduring some pigment change?? She's an all white Angel (Swazy) and now she has developed a like quick/blood line, as you can see from the picture. Shes about 2 years old. Usually resigns in a 65gal. She's now in a barebottom QT with wood replica for hiding, HOB filter, bubble wand, & heater.

    Her backstory is she was purchased from metro area fish store, was not in the best of health, cramped conditions, she had gill rot (one gill was completely rotted out), and her pelvic fin was kinked, its straightened out quite a bit but she has stayed very very small compared to my other Angels. I feed Sally's Bay freshwater multi-pak along with some dry. There hasn't been any other changes in my tank other than addition of more plants. I do 30% WWC on all my tanks. The 14 gallon has been getting daily or every other day water changes.

    65 GAL
    ammonia: 0 ppm
    nitrite: 0 ppm
    nitrate: 5 ppm
    temp: 76 F
    pH: 7.2

    14 GAL
    ammonia: 0 ppm
    nitrite: 0 ppm
    nitrate: 5 ppm
    temp: 77 F
    pH 7.4

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    AFTER




    [​IMG]
    BEFORE

    Is this color change something I should worry about? I noticed it first off in her nasal area...

    She's acting normal except somewhat skittish after being removed from her planted tank. She's been the only Angel in there since my pair was bullying her ( pair relocated) She didn't have any injuries a little bit of fraying in her tail, which healed. She's not with any other aggressive fish.

    Her eyes also don't look as clear, but I'm not sure if that's from being medicated. I haven't dealt with any disease in my tanks for about 4 years, only when first starting out when I had live-bearers.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping this doesn't link back to her coming from a bad stock :(
     
  2. Matt B

    Matt B Well Known Member Member

    My first idea would be stress, from the temp fluctuations and then the new tank. I would keep a close eye on it, if it stops looking like a line and starts spreading out on the fins and body it may be septicemia.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Crissandra331

    Crissandra331 Valued Member Member

    Latter parts not exactly what I wanted to hear...are there any links or websites that you would recommend that I could get more info on this? The few websites I've looked into give very different information...

    Also is their any info you might have on hand that you might want to add on septicemia?

    Really hoping it's not that :(


    Also would this effect all fish? Or possibly just the ones with a lower immunity? Is that possible?
     


  4. Matt B

    Matt B Well Known Member Member

    The second paragraph of this site has some general information on it. Sorry I wasn't clear, I was referring to the bacterial form, alot more common than the viral form to the best of my knowledge. Antibiotics would be the treatment for the bacterial form, I don't know of one for viral.

    I would think as long as her behavior isn't too off she is just stressed, she has been through alot with the bullying, moving and meds, that can do alot ime.

    I would say absolutely a bacterial disease could effect an individual who is stressed/has a lowered immunity while another fish has no problem, on the flip side you kind of assume everyone who shared a tank has been exposed imo.

    I have not had this disease in a community tank though to know if it was very virulent in spreading.
     
  5. endlercollector

    endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    You mentioned that in the past you had bacteria issues with livebearers. Did you use any of the same equipment in setting up the angelfish? Even if there symptoms were different could you please tell us what the livebearers suffered from?

    (I have been dealing with a variety of mycobacteria for quite some time and have been blogging about it.)
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Crissandra331

    Crissandra331 Valued Member Member

    I've seen a few of your threads :)
    Different tanks and different equipment, fortunately. I had Guppies and Mollies, but 1 or 2 of my guppies showed signs of the bent spine... ( fish TB but I'm not positive it was that but did mimic many symptoms) And my mollies had swim bladder problems but that was before I knew Molly require a lot of green in their diet. And this all happened about 4.5 years ago?

    As for the Angel fish I really hope it is stress and her just being white and being able to see more cause of her lack of color pigment. I keep my tanks pretty lightly stocked usually and do keep up with weekly changes and sometimes more.. but always try to match the water as closely as possible.

    Figure I'll just keep an eye on her and an eye on the tank she came out of. Everyone looks happy healthy and no signs of any illness or odd behavior. I just can't wait to get back to our normal weather & also figure out whats going on with her so i can get her back in her home... Humph!
     
  7. endlercollector

    endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    Yes, the difference in the way fish get pale when they're stressed out versus the way they get pale when they're sick can be very hard to figure out. And then they get stressed out from being in a quarantine tank, so we can't figure out if they feel better. Hoping she just goes ahead and gets over everything LOL
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Crissandra331

    Crissandra331 Valued Member Member

    So I've been looking at more pictures of other people and their fish especially some other Angel fish, and I'm really beginning to think it is Septicemia. So I'm still going to keep an eye on her but I'd really like to start researching some medications. The first website I read said it was incurable and to euthanize, then other sites said tetracycline, Maracyn 1 & 2

    @endlercollector is there any medication that you would recommend or have you ever dealt with this? :(

    I keep landing on unfinished threads so I never know what medicine worked or if meds worked at all..

    Side note: I have Kanaplex & Metronidazole on hand.... Kanaplex references septicemia, I'm going to start by adding salt to my QT and wait for a few replies on the Kanaplex...maybe?


     
  9. endlercollector

    endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    I am sorry to say that in my experience, septicemia is untreatable, the explanation being that various different bacteria can cause this illness. Some bacteria are resistant to certain and/or most antibiotics, so not knowing which bacteria you're dealing with is a real impediment to treatment.

    How much you want to try, of course has to do you with how you feel about your fish's condition, and whether or not you believe that medicating will make a difference. I cannot judge people who decide to do so because I myself have. However, I have found that over the years, I have found myself increasingly desperate for a miracle that doesn't happen very often– I suppose that's why I use the word "miracle."

    Edit: just saw your bit about Kanaplex. That was what I used some while ago. It is a very commonly used aquarium antibiotic, so you understand then that many bacteria have already run into it. Whether not this particular bug has or not, I cannot say.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Crissandra331

    Crissandra331 Valued Member Member

    See I have been thinking a lot about this and have not managed to find a successful case of someone treating it. I would much rather do what's best for her rather than play chemist or witch doctor. As much as I would love for her to pull out of this, I'm really not seeing much that is making me hopeful.
    I think i'll spend the rest of today exhausting some research efforts and by tonight make the decision on the most humane way to let her go if that's where it leads me. I've never lost any fish that weren't small schooling fish, I've never had to euthanize. This is going to be a real experience......
     
  11. endlercollector

    endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    So sorry about this. I saw the other thread that you wrote later also. I finally broke down last year and put down all the fish in my 45 gallon community tank that I had nursed with TB only for them to get camallanus worms. I had to do it alone as no one could help me with it, so I understand what you're going through.

    I am of the opinion that there is such a thing as a good death, and that is something that I have strived to give animals that are suffering too much. It's never an easy thing for a fish keeper to do, but it will give her peace.