Stressed Mating Angelfish

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moniker63

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On this topic of the adults becoming stressed, I was hoping for some suggestions to help my mating pair of angels (isolated in their own 30 gallon tank).

They had spawned three times with a couple of the fry surviving from each batch (7 growing fry in total). We felt the fry were getting large enough to be seperated from the parents and moved them to our larger community tank (60 gallon).

After we moved the babies, the parents have been, shy, mopy, and don't want to each much. I tried rearranging their tank (blog suggestion) so they could reestablish their territory since it had been "messed with" and they didn't feel safe their anymore. That did not work - not sure that was the best idea. They since spawned again. The female moved here eggs once a day for three days (which she had done in the past), but on the fourth day they were all eaten.

I've gone back to researching... and have found more ideas. Before I go and traumatize them any more, I'd like some feed back on these suggestions and please, offer any new ones. I also need to consider that these are not just mopey angels, but they are an actively breeding pair.

These I could try...
- add small community fish... um, I think they would eat the fry (not sure about that one)
- attach a mirror to the side of the tank (I think this would aggite then rather than spur their interest)
- check the water temp and chemical levels (both are fine)
- change their diet with different foods like frozen shrimp, freeze dried worms, new flakes... (I've tried this already, no luck)
- keep their light on 24/7 (again, will that cause stress?) I've actually kept their light off more and just kept it natural day light in a fairly well lit room.

I apoligize for the novel, but I'm hoping that a better question will provided critical information. Any experienced feedback with active matings pairs of angels would be geatly appreciated.
 
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streetdog

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On this topic of the adults becoming stressed, I was hoping for some suggestions to help my mating pair of angels (isolated in their own 30 gallon tank).

They had spawned three times with a couple of the fry surviving from each batch (7 growing fry in total). We felt the fry were getting large enough to be seperated from the parents and moved them to our larger community tank (60 gallon).

After we moved the babies, the parents have been, shy, mopy, and don't want to each much. I tried rearranging their tank (blog suggestion) so they could reestablish their territory since it had been "messed with" and they didn't feel safe their anymore. That did not work - not sure that was the best idea. They since spawned again. The female moved here eggs once a day for three days (which she had done in the past), but on the fourth day they were all eaten.

I've gone back to researching... and have found more ideas. Before I go and traumatize them any more, I'd like some feed back on these suggestions and please, offer any new ones. I also need to consider that theses are not just mopy angels, but they are a match actively breeding pair.

These I could try...
- add small community fish... um, I think they would eat the fry (not sure about that one)
- attach a mirror to the side of the tank (I think this would aggite rather than interest)
- check the water temp and chemical levels (both are fine)
- change their diet with different foods like frozen shrimp, freeze dried worms, new flakes... (I've tried this already, no luck)
- keep their light on 24/7 (again, will that cause stress?) I've actually kept their light off more and just kept it natural day light in a fairly well lit room.

I apoligize for the novel, but I'm hoping that a better question will provided critical information. Any experienced feedback with active matings pairs of angels would be geatly appreciated.
Angelfish lay eggs after every 30 days if they are raising spawn or every 10 days if they eat up their spawn early. Once their fry's are free swimmer, from the second week they start mating and laying eggs.

What has happened to you, has been happening to me. From past 1 year, I am trying to raise angel fry's with parents. I have very good luck raising them separate from parents. In all of my 3 tanks angelfish kept eating their fry's. The fact is 2 of the tanks have only a pair of angelfish. The third one is community tank. My all 3 tank sizes are 75 gallon (pair) 150+ gallon (pair) and 200 + gallon (community).

I have tried various methods for fry's to survive and grow up with parents. I remembered when I turned off the lights at night, the eggs were vanished next morning. So I tried leaving the lights on 24/7 (Which worked like magic). It also depends where your tank is, if there is a lot of movement outside the tank, than Angelfish will eat up their fry's. In my 75+ Gallon tank, my angel pair eat up the eggs after an hour or so. So the eggs never reached to fry stage. But my 150 gallon planted tank was fine, cuz I use to leave the light switched on 24/7.

I had to go on vacation for 5 days and I came back yesterday. When I was leaving, the angelfish in 75+ gallon had laid eggs. I noticed for the first time, the angels are successfully raising the babies, as I left the lights on and nobody was there at home. This 75+ gallon tank is downstairs, next to front door of the house. So, lights need to be left on 24/7, so that they can monitor every thing & not too much of movement outside the tank. This should work out for you.

Regarding their current behavior, I have been through the same as well. I would recommend you to check and change water. Don't interact inside the aquarium a lot (like moving stuff), except feeding time. Variety of food, is a good Idea. They should be back to normal after a while. It takes time for them to forget few things (just like humans). So do not worry! Just make sure, next time they spawn, leave the light switched on atleast for a month, till fry's are independent. By the fry's are free swimmers they will spawn the eggs again. So do not touch the lights girl, leave them on.

- add small community fish... um, I think they would eat the fry (not sure about that one)
- attach a mirror to the side of the tank (I think this would aggite rather than interest)
- check the water temp and chemical levels (both are fine)
- change their diet with different foods like frozen shrimp, freeze dried worms, new flakes... (I've tried this already, no luck)
- keep their light on 24/7 (again, will that cause stress?) I've actually kept their light off more and just kept it natural day light in a fairly well lit room
Regarding your other queries for future use.

1) Don't add small community fish, if any of the fry's escape the sight of parents, the other small fish will eat up angelfish babies. As angel fry's are too tiny and can fit in tetra's mouth as well.

2) Do not add a mirror to sides of the tank, as angel fish are territorial and they will go angry.

3) Variety of food is always good.

4) Like I said, yes keep the lights on if you want them to breed and bring up babies. This won't stress them.
 
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moniker63

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Thanka for the geat advice. I will double check their water and keep a close eye on it, just to make sure, and definately can try keeping the light on. The tank is in my upstairs office, so it is pretty calm in that room, even when I am in it, which is probably a good thing.

Do you have any suggestions about when it is time to seperate the young fish that have grown up with the parents? Also, is there a good method for removing them so you don't freak out the parents again?

I've heard that you can catch the parents and put them in a bucket so they are "blind" to the activity while you chase around the tank to collect the fry. I think we should have done that when we removed the young the last time. It has not helped the parents feel safe for sure.
 

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Thanka for the geat advice. I will double check their water and keep a close eye on it, just to make sure, and definately can try keeping the light on. The tank is in my upstairs office, so it is pretty calm in that room, even when I am in it, which is probably a good thing.

Do you have any suggestions about when it is time to seperate the young fish that have grown up with the parents? Also, is there a good method for removing them so you don't freak out the parents again?

I've heard that you can catch the parents and put them in a bucket so they are "blind" to the activity while you chase around the tank to collect the fry. I think we should have done that when we removed the young the last time. It has not helped the parents feel safe for sure.
First of all, welcome to www.fishlore.com a great place to get information about species which exist in water and much more.

My two gigantic tanks are in bedroom. So there's not much activity outside the tank, as I am the only person in room. The 75 gallon is downstairs, next to the front door. How old is your pair? Since, when are they spawning eggs in the tank? Were they a pair before you even purchased them?

Well, It is always good to raise the fry's with parents as the work is not at all messy.

To raise a fry separately, first you need to place some equipment in the tank, where angel fish pair can lay their eggs and which can be easily removed. The equipment needs to be slightly vertical. I place a floor tile, cut into rectangular shape/half. Once the parents ay eggs and the male fertilizes them (within 6 hours after spawn they get fertilized). I move the slab into the bucket.

Before moving them, you need to add methane blue (stops spreading fungus) into the water in the bucket and set the water temperature to 72 (degree Fahrenheit) 27- 28 (degree Celsius). Also you need to add an air stone in the bucket, you need to make sure the air coming from the air stone is going around and close by the eggs. So the water keeps flowing gently around the eggs. Also, you will need to remove the eggs which turn white/dead, using a tweezers/plucker. Make sure, you don't touch or pull healthy red eggs.

After 3 days you will see eggs having a wiggling tail and on the 7th - 9th day, the fry's will be swimming free. Here after, you will have to feed them 3 times everyday and 20% water change every day or 2 days. You will need to remove all the dead eggs and eggs left over as well

If you leave your lights switched on, your angelfish parents will do it fine. You will see the magic happening. If the eggs are left with parents, you will see parents eating white/dead eggs. Later on you will see them moving the eggs around when they have wiggling tails. They will pick up a stone from gravel and make their fry's stick to it. When the fry's begin to swim everywhere, you will see them bringing them back in a group (its all fun to see them, chasing those little baskets). You will be missing all the good part.

My advice to you is, try once with lights switched on. You will see them going little further than before and later on master on raising fry's without eating unhealthy ones. Once they trust you, then they will not be scared of you. As you know fish is always at high alert regarding their defense, which is in their nature.

All the best, and do share pictures of your angelfish with us. I will be happy to see them in this post.
 
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catsma_97504

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Excellent advice from Lucky.

Newer angel pairs sometimes need several attempts to learn how to parent. Some never get it right. There really is no magic secret, just trial and error. And the happy couple can spawn every 10 days when there is no fry to care for.

I have had the best luck feeding live foods to get them to spawn. And keeping the waste levels very low with a couple of large water changes per week. Once I see eggs I too leave the lights on 24x7.

If you want to raise the fry you will also need several growout tanks too. It takes commitment to raise healthy fry.

Good luck.
 
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moniker63

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I double check their water - all levels are spot on: 7.4 ph and zero for amonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Temp is 82. So I have ruled that out as a concern. I think I will a few more plast to help them fell more covered in the tank, leave the lights on, and get them a treat .

The parents are a white and a tiger - I'll post the pics and the video of the fry.
The fry that hve made it so far are:

Batch 1: 1 silver with light grey stripes
Batch 2: 5 tigers with varing patterns, and a silver similar to the first one.
Batch 3: 1 almost black tiger

I actualy began to map their color configurations to see the kind of variances - very interesting. Also helps me identify them to make sure each is doing well.

They are doing well in the 60 gal community tank. They have been apart from their parents for about a month now and are very healthy. Now I have to figure out what to do with the new ones.

I'll post back in a few days and let you know how mom and pop are coming along.
 

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streetdog

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You seem to have a nice camera moniker 63. The silver (albino) angelfish looks real healthy. I think the silver is male and marble is a female. The fry's are cute too. Thank you for the pictures.

You can also purchase a breeding box or make a home made breeding box. So you can separate the fry's from parents. But do give the parents a little more time, to master the raising skills. As it will make your work easier and raise the maximum number of fry's.
 

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The "silver" is actually a Gold angel. You can see gold coloring on the head and in the dorsal fin. And the "tiger" is a Marble.

With these two as the parents, your offspring will be mostly marbles. They will have one marble gene and one gold gene. If your marble has a hidden gold gene, then a small percentage will also be gold angels. There could also be any number of hidden recessive genes. And, you will never know that they exist until it is noticed in the offspring.

One thing I would be concerned with is the fact that you have no nitrates and no live plants. A cycled tank will have some nitrates unless it is heavily planted. Your profile indicates you are using liquid testing reagents. The last nitrate bottle (#2 with API, #3 with Nutrafin) should be beaten against a counter or table for at least a minute. This solution includes crystals that are very difficult to get back into suspension. Please retest and see if you get any measurable nitrates.

You have very nice angels. Good luck with breeding them.
 

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I recommend keeping the lights on 24/7. You have great fish, and good luck to you breeding them. No need to appologize for righting a novel, more information is better than less information. If you plan on keeping the fry with their parents I recommend densely covering the bottom 4 inches of the thank with plants so the fry have places to hide.
 
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