Stems Dying

Celestialgirl
  • #1
this is the second time I’ve tried Red Ludwigia and both times the stems turn black from the sand up and eventually the whole plant dies. I planted some a month ago and half are dead. I also noticed one water sprite did the same thing.

I’m not sure if I’m damaging the stems while planting or if it’s something else?
 
TexasGuppy
  • #2
I also can't keep my alive.. same problem.
I've scoured the internet and haven't found a good solution. Many people with same problem. I think it's a deficiency of some nutrient, but not certain. I think I lack enough nitrates which was one hypothesis. They started out great, then quickly went down hill.
 
Thunder_o_b
  • #3
Ours have grown to 30" have been trimmed and are now growing in a second grove. I can tell you what I do and you can compare that to what you are doing. The substrate is BDBS (med-coarse) light is Current Plant plus pro LED with twin florescent grow bulbs behind that. Water is RO/DI that is remineralized with SeaChem Equilibrium. Ph in the aquarium is 7.6 (I think it is the BDBS) Feeding is Flourish twice a week, Flourish Excel everyday, root tabs every three months and Flourish Iron twice a week. Red plants need bright light and a lot of iron.

These are quick grab shots so quality is lacking.

1. The parent plants. The tops were clipped 3 weeks ago and are growing back nicely. They are stringy at the bottom because the light is limited in that area.

_MG_7682.0.jpg

2. The cuttings. They have tripled in size in three weeks.

_MG_7681.0.jpg
 
Niaa
  • #4
I wasn't able to keep my ludwiga alive, same problem. However, my rotala macrandra is thriving with med lights and seachem flourish, and iron supplement.
 
TexasGuppy
  • #5
Hmm.. Excell may be a key. I originally was using that and they seemed to be growing week, but got shrimp and Val's which neither works well with that so I stopped. I bought CO2 injection, but couldn't start due to sickness outbreak and didn't want to stress fish during treatment.
I just started CO2 up and also just started adding iron. I also have bdbs, but thought these were mostly water feeders. Maybe they'll take off!
Yours' look great.
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
TexasGuppy It’s nice to know I’m not alone! The first time I had enough nitrates, this last time I added it during a fishless cycle and then just dosed with nitrogen, so I could see it being more of an issue for me the second time around. I don’t remember if I used Excel the first time.. this time I’m not as I’m trying to save my Val’s.

Thunder_o_b Do you float your stems to let them root a bit before you plant them? Yours do look great. My water would be hard. I had read that they can struggle in sand due to compaction but that doesn’t seem to impact you.

@NiaaThanks! If my remaining stems die maybe i’ll Try that plant. Do you use CO2?
 
Thunder_o_b
  • #7
TexasGuppy It’s nice to know I’m not alone! The first time I had enough nitrates, this last time I added it during a fishless cycle and then just dosed with nitrogen, so I could see it being more of an issue for me the second time around. I don’t remember if I used Excel the first time.. this time I’m not as I’m trying to save my Val’s.

Thunder_o_b Do you float your stems to let them root a bit before you plant them? Yours do look great. My water would be hard. I had read that they can struggle in sand due to compaction but that doesn’t seem to impact you.

@NiaaThanks! If my remaining stems die maybe i’ll Try that plant. Do you use CO2?
I clip, pull the leaves off the last node and plant.

Vals do not like Excel but a long time ago a member posted that they can be acclimated to it, but I do not remember the method.

I think that BDBS raises the Ph and hardness of the water. I can only keep shrimp and mystery sails in the aquariums with it. The water coming from the RO/DI unit is Ph 7.0 but the water in the BDBS aquariums is 7.6-7.8

The Excel does not seem to affect the ghost shrimp (I have never been able to keep them alive before) in the 44 with BDBS and Excel.

I use the med-coarse BDBS that does not seem to compact. But I have a finer grain in the 37 gallon guppy aquarium (setup last week) the bag was mis-marked. I will be interested to see if there are issues. But the Madagascar lace plant in there has doubled in size in less than a week and is sending up a flower
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
Hmmm. Not sure then. I’ve seen your other posts and you definitely have a wet green thumb, so I don’t feel so bad! Lol I use black Carib Sea sand. This time I’m also running Tropica Substrate underneath it.

I’ve seen those posts about acclimating to Excel too. I think you start with a 1/4 dose, then gradually increase your dose.

I’m just wrapping up a fishless cycle, so that probably doesn’t help either!
 
Niaa
  • #9
TexasGuppy It’s nice to know I’m not alone! The first time I had enough nitrates, this last time I added it during a fishless cycle and then just dosed with nitrogen, so I could see it being more of an issue for me the second time around. I don’t remember if I used Excel the first time.. this time I’m not as I’m trying to save my Val’s.

Thunder_o_b Do you float your stems to let them root a bit before you plant them? Yours do look great. My water would be hard. I had read that they can struggle in sand due to compaction but that doesn’t seem to impact you.

@NiaaThanks! If my remaining stems die maybe i’ll Try that plant. Do you use CO2?

No C02, just ferts. I've heard a fishless cycle is hard on plants, so that is also probably part of it.
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
No C02, just ferts. I've heard a fishless cycle is hard on plants, so that is also probably part of it.
I’m sure it doesn’t help, but that doesn’t explain why the rotted the first time! I’ll try them twice, and if no luck give up on them.

Have any of you had luck with other low tech red plants? I have a Fluval Plant 2.0 light but a 22” deep tank, so decent lighting. No CO2 but ferts.

Jocelyn Adelman and Demeter Do either of you know why Red Ludwigia May rot from the stem up.
 
Wraithen
  • #11
Usually it's from breakage under the substrate. I try to plant barely under the substrate for stem plants. It usually involves some floating around until I get around to trying again but it gives me the best change of success.
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Usually it's from breakage under the substrate. I try to plant barely under the substrate for stem plants. It usually involves some floating around until I get around to trying again but it gives me the best change of success.
That's certainly a possibility. Most of my other plants are potted and have nice root systems prior to planting. I also have issues with the Ludwigia popping up so maybe I was trying to plant them too vigorously. I'll make careful note of it next time I plant/replant them. Thanks!
 
Wraithen
  • #13
If you can, I think I'm quickly becoming a fan of tissue culture plants. My local petsmart started stocking them. They just started growing pretty much immediately after planting. I've never had this much success with newly planted plants before.
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
If you can, I think I'm quickly becoming a fan of tissue culture plants. My local petsmart started stocking them. They just started growing pretty much immediately after planting. I've never had this much success with newly planted plants before.
They are my preference by far too. There's not a lot of variety where I live and usually buy them online. Even then, selection isn't always exactly what I want (in Canada).
 
Niaa
  • #15
I’m sure it doesn’t help, but that doesn’t explain why the rotted the first time! I’ll try them twice, and if no luck give up on them.

Have any of you had luck with other low tech red plants? I have a Fluval Plant 2.0 light but a 22” deep tank, so decent lighting. No CO2 but ferts.

I haven't tried any other red plants yet. My tank has cheap lights, but is close to a window. So far, the only things that I've planted that haven't done well were the red ludwigia and anacharis(of all things).
 
Wraithen
  • #16
If you have problems with planted anacharis, float it for two weeks, then pull off the bottom inch of leaves and very gently plant it.
 
Niaa
  • #17
If you have problems with planted anacharis, float it for two weeks, then pull off the bottom inch of leaves and very gently plant it.

Cool! I may try it again then.
 
Wraithen
  • #18
I usually float mine and then wrap it around things. I only use it right after a cycle anyway or if I'm going through a blip for some reason. My new red stems may do the same job though going off their weekly growth!
 
Demeter
  • #19
My Ludwigia grows in spurts for some reason. I can have fresh cuttings that will grow nicely, but once they reach a certain point all their bottom leaves fall off and make a mess. I've tried trimming and that worked for a while, at the point of the trim the new growth branched off and grew very lush, but later down the road it too went through the lower leafs dying.

I only use Flourish and never had issue with the stems rotting unless there was too little foliage to support new growth.
 
Wraithen
  • #20
The lower leaves are shaded. The plant sacrifices them for the plants reaching more light. It's why I grow my wisteria sideways.
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #21
I haven't tried any other red plants yet. My tank has cheap lights, but is close to a window. So far, the only things that I've planted that haven't done well were the red ludwigia and anacharis(of all things).
I tried Hornwort once and that thing shed EVERYWHERE. lol People talk about how easy that one is and it was just a disaster.

My Ludwigia grows in spurts for some reason. I can have fresh cuttings that will grow nicely, but once they reach a certain point all their bottom leaves fall off and make a mess. I've tried trimming and that worked for a while, at the point of the trim the new growth branched off and grew very lush, but later down the road it too went through the lower leafs dying.

I only use Flourish and never had issue with the stems rotting unless there was too little foliage to support new growth.
Thanks for responding. I have enough foliage, they were lovely stems when I got them. Interesting that a few people seem to struggle with them.
 
Wraithen
  • #22
The worst shredder I've personally had so far is cabomba. No rhyme or reason why half of mine are prolific and the other half are dying
 
Niaa
  • #23
I thought about hornwort, but then I read how much it shed, and decided against it, lol!
 
Jocelyn Adelman
  • #24
Hornwort is hit or miss.... what a mess when it sheds!


As for the ludwigia, many are grown emersed prior to us getting them, possible this may be a factor. Also, agree that the stems get easily damaged while planting... using tweezers/tongs (lol properly called pincets) helps... I also do similar to one of the other posters... remove a few leaves and trim the stem before planting, this way it’s fresh going in... if there is any damage prior it will rot
 
Celestialgirl
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
Yeah, hornwort is like a dying Christmas tree. Lol Well, at least for me!

I need more work using the tweezers. They go in So beautifully, but often I seem to be hooked or something and when I remove them up comes the plant too (embarrassing confession lol). I just retrimmed the bottoms on the remaining ones and replanted, so hopefully that helps!
 

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