Starting New Tank - Questions About Startup

Posted too soon-
We also have a Aqueox 75 filter and a underwater 10 gallon filter. to be honest I think we might have gotten too many fish, here's the current list

Baby Tiger Oscar x 1 - Currently 1.5 inches

Blood Parrot Cichlids x 2 - One around 3.5-4 in and one about 1.5-2 in

Beta Fish x 4 - 2 Males and 2 Females
( Males get along fine, have had them since the beginning)

Stream Minnows x 3 - Each about 2.5 in (Planning to get rid of as they eat food before other fish can get to it sometimes)

Pleco x 1 - 1 in

Mystery Snails x 13 - Each about 1 inch, some are smaller

Neon Tetras x 8 ( Gonna be removing, believe they gave the tank ich)

Ghost shrimp x Maybe 3? - 1.5 inch avg

Silver dollars x 3 - One larger about 1.5 in, others around .5 inch ( I feel these ones may be really stressed due to overcrowding)

Gouramis x 2 - One opaline about 2.5 in and one powder blue dwarf ( Had two dwarfs but one started convulsing and passed away)

Angelfish x 2 - 1.5 in and .5 inch

Loach x 1 2.5 in

Balloon Molly x 1 - 1 in ( Also planning on getting rid of)

We are aware the tank is currently crowded, we hope to just focus on the Oscar and parrots in the future

We have a full liquid testing kit containing these tests

-pH (High Scale) (7.4-8.6) - 8.0
-Ammonia - 0.6-1.2 (Vial sat for 30 minutes)
-Nitrite 0.1
-Nitrate 5 ( or lower, test minimum is 5)
-Kh/Gh ( haven't gotten around to these yet)
-Phosphate *
-Calcium *
-Iron *
We also have run into a breakout of ich, it seems to be affecting our large parrot cichlid, our Tiger Oscar, and our neon tetras. We plan on buying ich medicine and starting treatments, so far we've raised the temperature to 83-84 f in an attempt to speed up the cycle and kill off the ich, any advice for our whole situation is welcome and if any more info is needed please feel free to ask

 

your gonna have a lot of rehoming to do , a tiger Oscar alone requires a 75 gallon tank all to himself, they get to 12-14" and are aggresive

2 parrot fish alone would require a 60g.

Betta should not be mixed with any other fish, especially cichlids. it's normal 1 Betta alone per 5 gallon you don't want them to be with other bettas either.

I'm guessing your pleco is a common pleco which grows to over a foot long and needs a 125g+

Their are way to many fish in here to do a fish in cycle. your parameters are all high because of those.

ich probably started from stress.

honestly their nothing you could really do but rehome a lot of those fish or getting a FEW other tanks

 

your gonna have a lot of rehoming to do , a tiger Oscar alone requires a 75 gallon tank all to himself, they get to 12-14" and are aggresive

2 parrot fish alone would require a 60g.

Betta should not be mixed with any other fish, especially cichlids. it's normal 1 Betta alone per 5 gallon you don't want them to be with other bettas either.

I'm guessing your pleco is a common pleco which grows to over a foot long and needs a 125g+

Their are way to many fish in here to do a fish in cycle. your parameters are all high because of those.

ich probably started from stress.

honestly their nothing you could really do but rehome a lot of those fish or getting a FEW other tanks

Thank you for your input we have been planning on rehoming a lot of our fish as we've realized it is crowded

your gonna have a lot of rehoming to do , a tiger Oscar alone requires a 75 gallon tank all to himself, they get to 12-14" and are aggresive

2 parrot fish alone would require a 60g.

Betta should not be mixed with any other fish, especially cichlids. it's normal 1 Betta alone per 5 gallon you don't want them to be with other bettas either.

I'm guessing your pleco is a common pleco which grows to over a foot long and needs a 125g+

Their are way to many fish in here to do a fish in cycle. your parameters are all high because of those.

ich probably started from stress.

honestly their nothing you could really do but rehome a lot of those fish or getting a FEW other tanks

Also we made sure the plecos maximum size will only be around 6 inches and we plan on adding Stress Zyme bacteria in order to help balance out our cycle

 

Also we made sure the plecos maximum size will only be around 6 inches and we plan on adding Stress Zyme bacteria in order to help balance out our cycle

oh okay your pleco must be a bristle nose or clown .

if you haven't purchased the stress zyme yet get seachem stability instead and PRIME by seachem it will allow ammonia and nitrite to be non toxic for a 24 hour period which you can dose daily.

your going to have to do everyday water changes , 30% at the very minimum to keeps the parameters down.

your tank will have an extremely hard time doing a cycle with the amount of fish currently in their, your filtration isn't enough either your running 400gal/h and should be running 650gal/h for a normal stocked tank, with your stocking you'll need to double that to have enough filter media to create beneficial bacteria to support all those fish.

 

oh okay your pleco must be a bristle nose or clown .

if you haven't purchased the stress zyme yet get seachem stability instead and PRIME by seachem it will allow ammonia and nitrite to be non toxic for a 24 hour period which you can dose daily.

your going to have to do everyday water changes , 30% at the very minimum to keeps the parameters down.

We've already added a dosage of 5 ml of Stress Zyme per 10 gallons of water thank you for the advice we will start doing large water changes daily and hopefully rehome some fish soon

 

stress zyme will not do anything for establishing a cycle, it's not a nitrifying bacteria nor will it break down any organic matter.

Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for 48 hours. Honestly I don't even believe stability can help as your bioload is substantial and you're going to have serious issues if not addressed quickly

 

Honestly that's the only thing you could do is rehome in tell then those large daily water changes will help alittle keeping parameters down.

just letting you know stress zyme is just a conditioner, doesn't have any benefit for cycling

 

stress zyme will not do anything for establishing a cycle, it's not a nitrifying bacteria nor will it break down any organic matter.

Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for 48 hours. Honestly I don't even believe stability can help as your bioload is substantial and you're going to have serious issues if not addressed quickly

I don't understand, the bottle says it has bacteria in it

 

I don't understand, the bottle says it has bacteria in it

it is a conditioner that has bacteria in it but not the bacteria you want to start a cycle.

 

You would be better off getting a large storage bin, moving over that 10 gallon filter and splitting up the fish.

Ich is breaking out due to over crowding, and water condition. Stress lowers their immune system and allows them to be attacked by the parasite.

If you spread out some of the stock until you can provide more room, or rehome them, maybe consider choosing an appropriate stocking and trade some fish at your LFS. If you for some reason have a bad LFS i'm positive you can work something out on this forum or others. If you live near me I'd gladly help you. But spreading out the stock, getting your cycle under control, and allowing a healthy colony of bacteria to grow you will be able to fight off the ich and solve a lot of the problems.

Before you use a medicine for the ich, what are you considering using? Some of your fish are not compatible with certain treatments for the others, nor are they compatible for a heat treatment. Splitting them up is really the only way to treat all of them correctly.

 

agreed with Tiny_Tanganyikans , best option split them up, in deferent storage bins for now in tell you can rehome them, all together in that 65g won't solve anything , their is no room for beneficial bacteria to grow, they are stressed , cramped, you have fish that need cooler water , some need warmer , high parameters.

 

I don't understand, the bottle says it has bacteria in it

There's literally millions of different kinds of bacteria... my pee has bacteria in it, but do you want me to pee in your aquarium?

Not trying to be harsh, just making a point with some humor, there's different types of bacteria. The bacteria in stress zyme, is not a nitrifying aerobic/anaerobic bacteria... it's a bacteria that breaks down mulm, like liquid gravel vac, which is essentially garbage to steal your money.

What doesn't it do?
Unfortunately a lot of forum web sites seem to think it contains nitrifying bacteria species. It does not. So not surprisingly it does not speed up the process.

API claim it 'speeds development of the biological filter'. This is often taken to mean it speeds up the cycle process, API mean it reduces mulm collecting on the filter media therefore increases availability of oxygenated water to the nitrifying bacteria. More oxygen, more growth of nitrifying bacteria.

Source;

 

You would be better off getting a large storage bin, moving over that 10 gallon filter and splitting up the fish.

Ich is breaking out due to over crowding, and water condition. Stress lowers their immune system and allows them to be attacked by the parasite.

If you spread out some of the stock until you can provide more room, or rehome them, maybe consider choosing an appropriate stocking and trade some fish at your LFS. If you for some reason have a bad LFS i'm positive you can work something out on this forum or others. If you live near me I'd gladly help you. But spreading out the stock, getting your cycle under control, and allowing a healthy colony of bacteria to grow you will be able to fight off the ich and solve a lot of the problems.

Before you use a medicine for the ich, what are you considering using? Some of your fish are not compatible with certain treatments for the others, nor are they compatible for a heat treatment. Splitting them up is really the only way to treat all of them correctly.

Thank you for informing me on all of this, I plan on moving out most of the fish into a plastic bin with the filter as you said but which ones should I move? I would ideally like to keep the Oscar and parrots in the large tank as I don't think there will be enough room in the container, also I was planning on using marinelands ich remedy but I'm open to suggestions

 

You would be better off getting a large storage bin, moving over that 10 gallon filter and splitting up the fish.

Ich is breaking out due to over crowding, and water condition. Stress lowers their immune system and allows them to be attacked by the parasite.

If you spread out some of the stock until you can provide more room, or rehome them, maybe consider choosing an appropriate stocking and trade some fish at your LFS. If you for some reason have a bad LFS i'm positive you can work something out on this forum or others. If you live near me I'd gladly help you. But spreading out the stock, getting your cycle under control, and allowing a healthy colony of bacteria to grow you will be able to fight off the ich and solve a lot of the problems.

Before you use a medicine for the ich, what are you considering using? Some of your fish are not compatible with certain treatments for the others, nor are they compatible for a heat treatment. Splitting them up is really the only way to treat all of them correctly.

Okay so I've moved everything out of the tank except for the Oscar the parrots, a small balloon Molly and the neon tetras, I'll soon be going to pick up the ich remedy if there's anything else I should do please let me know

 

are the neons effected by ich?

 

Okay so I've moved everything out of the tank except for the Oscar the parrots, a small balloon Molly and the neon tetras, I'll soon be going to pick up the ich remedy if there's anything else I should do please let me know

I forgot there's also the pleco and loach still in there, do you guys think this is okay for now?

are the neons effected by ich?

I'm not sure all of them have it but a few have the white spots on their fins/tail

I'm not sure all of them have it but a few have the white spots on their fins/tail

The spots aren't really bad yet, it seems to be just starting as they only have about 1-2

 

best way to treat ich first before adding meds is, bring your temp to 85f then add 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt for every 10 gallon of water.Since warm water cannot hold as much oxygen as cool water, increase the aeration by adding air stones or lowering the water couple inches to allow the filter to cause water aggitation, VERY important 50% water changes every day and re dose salt per g water that has been re added . Don't forget to use conditioner In the water.

before doing any of this make sure it is ich , what is your substrate?

 

What type of loach do you have?

Be very careful if you use medications in the same tank as the loach.

 

best way to treat ich first before adding meds is, bring your temp to 85f then add 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt for every 10 gallon of water.Since warm water cannot hold as much oxygen as cool water, increase the aeration by adding air stones or lowering the water couple inches to allow the filter to cause water aggitation, VERY important 50% water changes every day and re dose salt per g water that has been re added . Don't forget to use conditioner In the water.

before doing any of this make sure it is ich , what is your substrate?

I have sand substrate

It's a small loach about 2.5 in I forget what type sorry

 

I would not use marinelands ick remedy. It is just straight Victoria/malachite green its also pretty concentrated IIRC and scaleless fish (loach) and your tetra can be sensitive to it. I would instead use seachems paraguard which has the same medicine but its also blended with other medicine's that will be beneficial for you.

Some of your fish are not temp compatible for heat treatment.

Paraguard is not dangerous to scaleless fish if used correctly.


I would consider what fish you really want to keep (that you can keep properly). TexasDomer is the stocking queen, maybe she can help you choose something appropriate.

 

I would not use marinelands ick remedy. It is just straight Victoria/malachite green its also pretty concentrated IIRC and scaleless fish (loach) and your tetra can be sensitive to it. I would instead use seachems paraguard which has the same medicine but its also blended with other medicine's that will be beneficial for you.

Some of your fish are not temp compatible for heat treatment.

Paraguard is not dangerous to scaleless fish if used correctly.


I would consider what fish you really want to keep (that you can keep properly). TexasDomer is the stocking queen, maybe she can help you choose something appropriate.

I've already bought the ich remedy as well as the prime conditioner, I'm going to try removing the tetras and loach so I can treat them seperately at a later date, for now which fish do you believe can't take the heat treatment?

 

I've already bought the ich remedy as well as the prime conditioner, I'm going to try removing the tetras and loach so I can treat them seperately at a later date, for now which fish do you believe can't take the heat treatment?

The loach depending on species but you're moving him anyway.

The minnows. The shrimp and snails have a 50/50 chance of tolerating the heat treatment. The snails moreso than the shrimp. Lots of the shrimp may die. Theyre also sensitive to the ick remedy and I would advise only half a dose. Hest treating is enough to take care of it on it's own. I wouldn't even use the medicine. I'd do one or the other.

 

So good news guys, I managed to rehome a lot of the fish

Currently the stock is down to
1 Molly
1 Oscar
2 Parrots
13 Snails
1 Pleco
3 Shrimp

Completed a 50% water change and added Seachem Prime conditioner as well as a little under a half dose of ich remedy
Hopefully going to see some improvement will keep replying with updates and if anyone else has any advice it would be greatly appreciated

 

I was reading that you want to focus on the Oscar and parrots. If that's the case you need a much larger tank for them. I know I'm late to the party and this must have been said already.

 

So good news guys, I managed to rehome a lot of the fish

Currently the stock is down to
1 Molly
1 Oscar
2 Parrots
13 Snails
1 Pleco
3 Shrimp

Completed a 50% water change and added Seachem Prime conditioner as well as a little under a half dose of ich remedy
Hopefully going to see some improvement will keep replying with updates and if anyone else has any advice it would be greatly appreciated

Good news that's definitely a good start, it'll help it a lot getting things started.

just make sure it's actually ich sometimes sand substrates will actually get on the fish appearing to be ich, if it is ich then raise temp to 85f and do daily water changes.

just letting you know the tank is still over stocked , a Oscar alone will need a 75 gallon + minimum and that pushing ,better in a 100g+ they get to 12-14". You could only have those 2 parrots with the pleco and snails.

 

I was reading that you want to focus on the Oscar and parrots. If that's the case you need a much larger tank for them. I know I'm late to the party and this must have been said already.

Thank you but the situation I'm in doesn't allow a bigger tank, if you have any more information that would benefit me please share

 

85 degrees will stop ich from breeding 86 degrees will kill it.

Thank you but the situation I'm in doesn't allow a bigger tank, if you have any more information that would benefit me please share

So, have you decided against Oscar's and parrots ?

 

Hello,

Got my first tank (20 gallons), put in gravel, fake plants, some decor, AquaClear 30 filter, heater and 2 bubblers. Today I put in TopFin conditioner, waited 15 minutes and put in TopFin ReadiStart nitrifying bacteria starter. My plan was to wait a month and then add fish, but then I did some research on this forum and realized my approach might be bad.

My new plan is to:
1. Order an API test kit, Seachem Prime and Tetra Safe Start
2. Do a large water change
3. Add Prime
4. Wait 24 hours
5. Add a bottle of TSS
6. Don't touch the water for 2 weeks
7. Test the water, hoping for a cycled tank
8. Add a guppy, wait a week or so and then slowly add (1-4 weeks apart): 6 Glo Fish Danio, 1 Sunset Platy, 1 Bluefin Notho Killifish, 1 Longfin Zebra Danio and 6 Red Cherry Shrimp

Is this a good approach?

 

No, you need to add either pure ammonia (at about 1-3 ppm) or fish food (a little each day) which will be converted into ammonia in order for the tank to cycle- the bacteria have to eat something. It's probably easier to use the fish food technique, but may take a bit longer.

No need to do a water change before you start. You could just add some fish food now for the bacteria to start eating.

Oh, and welcome to Fish Lore.

 

Thank you!

 

You're welcome, and once you get the cycle started and add fish their waste products will sustain the cycle. (And that's why you want it, the cycle bacteria, when properly established, prevent their waste products from forming toxins that will harm them.)

 

I've been putting a few flakes in each morning and I'm waiting for my API Test Kit to arrive from Amazon.
In the meantime, I've been trying not to stress about messing everything up once the tank is cycled.
Does this plan look good?

• Put a few flakes in each day
• Once Test Kit arrives start testing every-other-day
• Test water until I get this result: ammonia-0, nitrItes-0 and nitrAtes-20 (or less)
• Once levels reach the above scores add first fish: a Guppy
• Wait a week and then do a PWC (25% for each PWC)
• Add 6 Glo Fish; wait a week and do PWC
• Add a Sunset Platy; wait a week and do PWC
• Add a Bluefin Notho Killifish; wait a week and do a PWC
• Add a Longfin Zebra Danio; wait a week and do a PWC
• Add 6 Red Cherry Shrimp; wait a week and do a PWC
• From the point on continue testing water weekly along with PWCs
• Also do a 50% gravel vacuum monthly
• Change filter media as directed on Fluval instructions

Does this look legit?
Also, do I ever need to use Prime or TSS? (those are on their way from Amazon too)

 

Initially you want to add a bit of fish food a day until you get a reading between 1-3 ppm of ammonia. Adjust the amount of food to keep it there until you start seeing nitrites. Then use the nitrites as your guide. Don't let the nitrites get over 3 ppm. Then, probably overnight, you'll see the nitrites drop to 0 (the ammonia having previously done so) and you'll have nitrates. At this point the tank is fully cycled.

Your water change schedule sounds great. Whenever you do it you should have the gravel vac out.

You may be a bit too conservative with your fish adding schedule, though. You need enough fish in the tank to create enough waste to keep the cycle going. (I'm also not sure, but I thought guppies were social fish and did better in groups and it looks like you're planning on one. Anybody?)

I'm not sure what Fluval says about filter material changes. The simple rule of thumb- less is more. This is the primary place bacteria grow. Any mechanical 'scrubbing' action of the filter is purely cosmetic. It's primary mission is to clean the toxins out of the water with its bacteria colonies- it's these you've nurtured so carefully establishing your cycle. (They grow best in the filter because there's surface area for them to grow on and constant water flow to bring them food.) Your filter material should usually be rinsed in dechlorinated water. If it has a sponge keep it until you notice it begin to break down. If it has floss replace half of it every month or two. If it has ceramic rings they should last the life of the tank. If it has carbon replace it every month or so. If it's a cartridge filter there's usually a place to keep the old cartridge in the water flow while the new one is establishing its bacterial colonies. Keep the old one in with the new at least two weeks.

One tip about using bacterial starter colonies- shake the bottle like there's no tomorrow. Shake it two or three minutes vigorously before adding it. It really helps to break up the micro clumps that form and allow more bacteria to grow.

 

Thank you!

A few more questions/clarifications:

1. How/when do I incorporate Prime and TSS? Is that for after the cycling process or during?
2. Can you please define "bacterial starter colonies"?
3. When I do water changes do I need to prepare the new water first? In other words, do I need to get the temperature the same as in the tank? And do I need to put any conditioner in it (or Prime? TSS?) before adding it? Or do I just put regular tap water in the tank and then add something? I guess what I'm asking is how to do water changes.

 

Thank you!

A few more questions/clarifications:

1. How/when do I incorporate Prime and TSS? Is that for after the cycling process or during?
2. Can you please define "bacterial starter colonies"?
3. When I do water changes do I need to prepare the new water first? In other words, do I need to get the temperature the same as in the tank? And do I need to put any conditioner in it (or Prime? TSS?) before adding it? Or do I just put regular tap water in the tank and then add something? I guess what I'm asking is how to do water changes.

1- You incorporate Prime and TSS during the cycling. The Prime removes the chlorine which will kill the bacteria. The TSS is the bacteria.

2- TSS (or Stability)

3- There are two methods to add water once you've removed some for a partial water change. One is to prepare the water outside the tank. This means you put the new water in a bucket or other container and add Prime to that, then very gently pour or siphon the water into the tank.

I don't want to over-complicate this for you, but there is another method. That is to add Prime to the tank then add water with a hose directly from the tap. I don't recommend this, but if you do it, it's really important to add the Prime to the tank first. Prime reacts virtually instantly to chlorine, faster than it can hurt your bacteria or fish. What you don't want is chlorinated water in your tank for five minutes while it's slowly filling and then add the Prime.

However, with either method you will want to temperature match if you've got fish in the tank. If there's an error in temperature, err on the side of adding slightly cooler water- we're talking one or two degrees F., not five. This mimics what tropical fish get in nature if there's a rainstorm up stream.

While the tank is cycling always add TSS (or Stability) with water changes. After the tank is cycled you don't need to unless you suspect a damaged cycle.

 

I've been putting a few flakes in each morning and I'm waiting for my API Test Kit to arrive from Amazon.
In the meantime, I've been trying not to stress about messing everything up once the tank is cycled.
Does this plan look good?

• Put a few flakes in each day
• Once Test Kit arrives start testing every-other-day
• Test water until I get this result: ammonia-0, nitrItes-0 and nitrAtes-20 (or less)
• Once levels reach the above scores add first fish: a Guppy
• Wait a week and then do a PWC (25% for each PWC)
• Add 6 Glo Fish; wait a week and do PWC
• Add a Sunset Platy; wait a week and do PWC
• Add a Bluefin Notho Killifish; wait a week and do a PWC
• Add a Longfin Zebra Danio; wait a week and do a PWC
• Add 6 Red Cherry Shrimp; wait a week and do a PWC
• From the point on continue testing water weekly along with PWCs
• Also do a 50% gravel vacuum monthly
• Change filter media as directed on Fluval instructions

Does this look legit?
Also, do I ever need to use Prime or TSS? (those are on their way from Amazon too)

If you're gonna use TSS+, just wait for it to come.

Stop putting flake food in the tank.
Fill tank and condition water (you might already have this done since you're adding food).
Wait 24hr minimum after adding any type of water conditioner before adding TSS+
Add TSS+ (25ml per 10g)
Add fish within 4 hrs. (just 6 glofish would be a good start)
Feed fish as normal (on the lighter side if possible) for 2 weeks.
Test water after 2 weeks and do normal water changes (I'd recommend 25%).
Slowly start stocking with more fish.

Live plants help.

 

Thank you guys!
I will chew on these responses later tonight and guaranteed I'll have more questions (or need clarification) as my brain is trying hard to learn these new concepts...

 

Just answering California L33 question on guppies...

Guppies can be kept alone, but prefer to have some buddies. They even do well with other livebearers as their buddies (I've had a lot of success keeping guppies and platies together).

 

Danios need groups of at least 6.

 

Danios need groups of at least 6.

I'm pretty sure the longfin will school with the Glofish, they're all still some kind of zebra danio.

 

I'm pretty sure the longfin will school with the Glofish, they're all still some kind of zebra danio.

My bad, they will. I just hate Glofish.

 

My bad, they will. I just hate Glofish.

I think (or hope) that most of us do.

 

Sorry about that, I have already done stocking calculation and its seems I am at 100% capacity. my only concern is did I added my fish too early or is it ok. from tank cycling point

If you've used the filter media from the old tank you should be OK. I'd monitor the water daily just in case, though. If you go through a minI cycle you can protect the fish with Prime while it's happening.

 

For clarification purposes I'm going to recap what I've done so far and what I'm planning to do next.
If CaliforniaL33 and DarkOne could respond with approval or correction that would be great (and anyone else that's willing to chime in)...

• AquaClear 30 has been running in my 20 gallon tank for 4 days.
• On Day 1: I put in TopFin Conditioner, waited 15 minutes and put in TopFin ReadI Start, 2 bubblers began bubbling and the heater brought water to 75 degrees.
• On Days 2-4: I put in a little flake food each morning.
• Tomorrow (Day 5) I will stop putting in food and add 50ml of TSS after vigorously shaking the bottle for a few minutes. Also, API Kit should arrive and I'll begin testing the water. I'll test the water every-other-day until I get this result: ammonia-0, nitrItes-0 and nitrAtes-20 (or less).
• Once levels reach the above scores I'll add 50ml of TSS and then 4 hours later add the first fish: 6 Zebra Danios .
• I'll wait 2 weeks, do a water test, and do a PWC (25% for each PWC + 50% gravel vacuum each time as well) *Thank you CaliforniaL33 for the direction on how to do water changes!!!
• I'll wait another week, do a PWC and add a Guppy and Sunset Platy.
• I'll wait another week, do a PWC and add a Bluefin Notho Killifish and Longfin Zebra Danio.
• I'll wait another week, do a PWC and add 6 Red Cherry Shrimp.
• From that point on I'll continue testing water weekly along with PWCs
• I'll also change filter media as directed on Fluval instructions and by CaliforniaL33

Does that look good?

Also, I apologize that I'm still not getting this, but I still don't understand when to add Prime or how much. I've picked up that the timing of adding Prime in relation to TSS matters, but I'm not sure which is to come first and if I'm supposed to add them now or after I add fish or both. If I'm to add them now do I add them daily or weekly or ??

 

There is beneficial bacteria in TSS+ (make sure it's Plus). Once you dose the tank, it needs an ammonia source (fish waste) to survive and populate or it dies.

Here are the next steps...

Day 5 - Add 50ml TSS+ then add 6 Zebra Danios within 2-4 hrs. You don't need to shake the snot out of it. Just 5-10 sec is fine.
Day 5-19 Feed fish as normal.
Day 19 - test water and do a PWC.

Each time you add fish, add 20ml TSS+

If you can't add fish tomorrow, don't put TSS+ in the tank.

 

For clarification purposes I'm going to recap what I've done so far and what I'm planning to do next.
If CaliforniaL33 and DarkOne could respond with approval or correction that would be great (and anyone else that's willing to chime in)...

• AquaClear 30 has been running in my 20 gallon tank for 4 days.
• On Day 1: I put in TopFin Conditioner, waited 15 minutes and put in TopFin ReadI Start, 2 bubblers began bubbling and the heater brought water to 75 degrees.
• On Days 2-4: I put in a little flake food each morning.
• Tomorrow (Day 5) I will stop putting in food and add 50ml of TSS after vigorously shaking the bottle for a few minutes. Also, API Kit should arrive and I'll begin testing the water. I'll test the water every-other-day until I get this result: ammonia-0, nitrItes-0 and nitrAtes-20 (or less).
• Once levels reach the above scores I'll add 50ml of TSS and then 4 hours later add the first fish: 6 Zebra Danios .
• I'll wait 2 weeks, do a water test, and do a PWC (25% for each PWC + 50% gravel vacuum each time as well) *Thank you CaliforniaL33 for the direction on how to do water changes!!!
• I'll wait another week, do a PWC and add a Guppy and Sunset Platy.
• I'll wait another week, do a PWC and add a Bluefin Notho Killifish and Longfin Zebra Danio.
• I'll wait another week, do a PWC and add 6 Red Cherry Shrimp.
• From that point on I'll continue testing water weekly along with PWCs
• I'll also change filter media as directed on Fluval instructions and by CaliforniaL33

Does that look good?

Also, I apologize that I'm still not getting this, but I still don't understand when to add Prime or how much. I've picked up that the timing of adding Prime in relation to TSS matters, but I'm not sure which is to come first and if I'm supposed to add them now or after I add fish or both. If I'm to add them now do I add them daily or weekly or ??

There might be some confusion here. DarkOne is describing a fish-in cycle. I'm describing a fishless cycle. Both methods work. With a fish-in cycle fish waste provides the ammonia. With a fishless cycle decomposing food provides the ammonia.

If want to do fish-in then you can add fish. If you want to do fishless then you need to keep adding food. (I guess if you do fish-in you've got to add food to feed the fish .) If you've got Prime there's no reason not to do a fish-in cycle, though you may have to use it every other day at triple strength to prevent burned gills. I didn't mention this because there's a lot of information to absorb and you seemed content to do a fishless cycle. (Back in the day a fish-in cycle was harrowing for the fish keeper as s/he sometimes had to do twice a day water changes trying to balance having enough ammonia and nitrite in the tank to start the cycle with not harming the fish. With Prime it's just a matter of the expense of adding that every other day.)

As for gravel vacuuming, you do it as you're doing your 25% PWC. It's not 25% plus 50%.

As for the timing of Prime and TSS (DarkOne is right, use TSS+, but that's most common) there is debate here. Seachem, makers of Prime, say Prime absolutely, positively, does NOT interfere with the establishing of the cycle. They say the product does not remove ammonia or nitrite that bacteria feed on. It simply converts it to a form that doesn't harm fish, but bacteria find delicious, and anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand how the product works. Tetra either does, or did at one time, recommend not dosing with water conditioners within 24 hours of adding TSS. It's your call, but if Tetra and Seachem disagree on something, I tend to side with Seachem.

As for the shaking of TSS or any other bacterial starter, I'm going to disagree with DarkOne on this. I had a cycle stall in a 3 gallon tank for more than a month. I used a whole bottle of TSS and nearly half a bottle of Stability- no luck. I could get ammonia converted to nitrite (that happened in a couple of day), but not nitrite to nitrate. Then somebody told me about the shake the snot out of it trick, explaining that bacteria form micro-clumps as they go into suspended animation and these clumps don't dissolve in water, so only the bacteria at the outside edges of these clumps ever stand a chance of of 'waking up' when added to a tank. They can be broken with agitation, but they're so small it has to be vigorous and long. I was dubious, but had nothing left to lose and tried it. The next day my nitrites were 0. It could have been coincidence, but I say it's worth the three minutes of effort.

 

Thank you again you guys!!
At this point I'm committed to a fishless cycle.
I believe I now grasp how to move forward, but don't be surprised if I message here again soon...

 

CaliforniaL33 (or anyone else who knows): thank you again for your advice on water changes. Something just came to mind. I picture myself filling a bucket with tap water, putting Prime in it and then realizing I don't know how to get the water to 75 degrees (the temperature of my aquarium) before I put it into the tank. How do I get the new water to the same temperature as the tank water? Do I need to get an additional heater for that?

Also, I noticed the "ratings" and "points" system with my profile. How does that work? I'm a sucker for scoreboards. If there's a scoreboard in my life I can't help but want to know how to get more points.

 

CaliforniaL33 (or anyone else who knows): thank you again for your advice on water changes. Something just came to mind. I picture myself filling a bucket with tap water, putting Prime in it and then realizing I don't know how to get the water to 75 degrees (the temperature of my aquarium) before I put it into the tank. How do I get the new water to the same temperature as the tank water? Do I need to get an additional heater for that?

Also, I noticed the "ratings" and "points" system with my profile. How does that work? I'm a sucker for scoreboards. If there's a scoreboard in my life I can't help but want to know how to get more points.

Don't fill the bucket all the way. Get another container with hot water, mix until you're close, and like I said, a little cool is better than a little warm.

So, rating are easy- at the bottom of every message you create there's a row of icons from balloons to a paint brush, 'thanks,' 'like,' 'agree,' 'funny,' 'winner,' 'informative,' 'love,' 'useful,' 'optimistic,' and 'creative.' When somebody thinks a message you wrote is any one of those things they click it and you get a rating. As I type this your total rating is zero, but wait- something is happening, it's up to 8 out of 9 messages written. Somebody really likes your stuff . At the end of the year the owners of Fish Lore give you a check for $10 for each rating you get... not! It's pure ego fodder. The points are a bit more complicated. When you get them they give you an award (in pixels) and explain how they calculated it.

We all like to have our ego stroked, though. I figure if someone thinks half my messages are worth giving a rating I'm helping people .

 

I am helping my kid setup a new 10 gallon tank. So far we have nice piece of driftwood, one rock, anubias nana, java fern, christmas moss and moss ball. Christmas ball and anubias nana will go onto the driftwood to create a tree-like effect. Substrate is black sand and we also have Neo-Therm heater and Aquaclear 20 HOB filter.

As far as stocking, he wanted one honey gourami and two peacock gudgeons. We are going to be doing fish in cycle with one guppy and TSS+. I know that even after the tank is cycled, my kid will get too attached to the guppy so he will not give it back to the LFS. So as a result, we will end up with one honey gourami, one peacock gudgeon and one guppy. Hope that's OK for a small community tank. According to AqAdvisor, our stocking will be at 72% and will require 17% water changes weekly (we are going to do 20% which is 2 gallons). Filtration is at 215%.

We have all but the fish so we will start the aquarium setup tonight and most likely finish this weekend. Will post photos of the process later.

Any comments and/or recommendations?