That is an interesting idea, a good one . I am not an expert on plants. In fact I only have one Java fern that I got yesterday. It has been in bucket until I can fieger it out. However I do have a 8 gallon tank that I think would be good for it. May I will try one of them. I like the look of hornwort.BigBeardDaHuZi said:I really should do the frogbit experiment again, from scratch, to make sure of the numbers and see if the process is repeatable, but I am pretty happy with what I've seen.
Surely someone, somewhere, has experimented with this before. Which plants soak up the most? Floaters? Hornwort? Cabomba? Water sprite and water lettuce (are they the same?) would be fun to try.
When the stand for my quarantine tank gets here, I will set it up and cycle more media in it. It would be easier to experiment with different plants in a proper tank. The bucket is stuffed to the gills with media
Be sure you don't bury the roots on your java fern. They need to be either tied or glued to something instead of actually planting them. I glued mine to tiny terracotta pots. They have grown so big and so many roots the pots are almost invisible now.Rockymountainstream said:That is an interesting idea, a good one . I am not an expert on plants. In fact I only have one Java fern that I got yesterday. It has been in bucket until I can fieger it out. However I do have a 8 gallon tank that I think would be good for it. May I will try one of them.
Thanks. I am trying to figure out how to tie it to a peace of driftwood I have. However I do have some small terracotta pots that I can use, that seems easier. I have read of both method. But the approach on how it is done eludes me. I know this should be on a defiant thread, however how did you do it with the glue?mattgirl said:Water lettuce looks a lot like frogbit but the leaves are quite different. Water sprite is kinda like water wisteria. Kinda like a fern looking plant. Some folks use it as a floating plant but others plant it. I think it would thrive either way. I have to think the really fast growing plants will soak up the most ammonia and/or nitrates.
You will really be able to grow bunches of bacteria once your 20 gallon quarantine tank is up and running.
Be sure you don't bury the roots on your java fern. They need to be either tied or glued to something instead of actually planting them. I glued mine to tiny terracotta pots. They have grown so big and so many roots the pots are almost invisible now.
I just put a drop of super glue jel on the pot and used a toothpick to mash a couple of the roots down into the glue. It just takes a drop of it to hold it in place until the roots grab hold of the pot.Rockymountainstream said:Thanks. I am trying to figure out how to tie it to a peace of driftwood I have. However I do have some small terracotta pots that I can use, that seems easier. I have read of both method. But the approach on how it is done eludes me. I know this should be on a defiant thread, however how did you do it with the glue?
I will definitely do that when I get home. Thanks for the infomattgirl said:I just put a drop of super glue jel on the pot and used a toothpick to mash a couple of the roots down into the glue. It just takes a drop of it to hold it in place until the roots grab hold of the pot.
One at a time is good too. I still like your idea.BigBeardDaHuZi said:Day 19 - Magical Frogbit?
I got no noticeable change today.
Did I read the test wrong yesterday? Did I read it wrong the day before? Was it too cloudy? The bucket is not getting much light.
A disappointing day.
I think this experiment needs to go on hold until the twenty gallon is up. That way I can give the test plants consistent light.
Back to the ammonia. Today I will add 4ppm of ammonia
You had mentioned earlier about adding ammonia 2 times a day. That might not be a bad idea. Just up the amount each time. If you just add the same amount morning and night all you will be doing is making more nitrates. Each time you increase the amount of ammonia you are increasing the amount of bacteria needed to clear it out.BigBeardDaHuZi said:
I was wondering about that. It is possible the lack on oxygen in the bottom of the bucket is growing the nitrate eating bacteria. That is a good thing but I have to wonder how much ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria is growing on it. I am wondering if it is only growing on the top of it. If that is the case you may need to stir it from time to time if you are trying to grow enough bacteria to quickly cycle your big tank.BigBeardDaHuZi said:Day 24
0
0
and the nitrates are back to 100. Those floaters really are doing a good job.
I will dose to 7 now and again tonight. If it hasn't zeroed out by tonight, I will only add enough ammonia to return it to 7.
Once the bucket is handling twice-a-days, I will bump it up to 8
Edit: mmm.... the floaters don't look so great though. Not enough light or to much ammonia. I hope my planted tank will spawn enough to add some replacements soon.
There are two sponge filters in the middle of the bucket, but the bucket is crammed with media. I'm not sure how much water flow I am actually getting throughout the bucket. Any chance I have de-nitrafying (sp?) bacteria growing?
Yeah, I know bacteria can heavily colonize even a small piece of property. Mostly I just wanted to seed all of the material that will go into the big tank and the quarantine tank. I haven't bought any of the sponge or floss that will go in the big sump yet, but I got a really good deal on ceramic balls (160 RMB for 10 kilos - a little over 20 bucks!) , so I bought enough to fill the sump.mattgirl said:I was wondering about that. It is possible the lack on oxygen in the bottom of the bucket is growing the nitrate eating bacteria. That is a good thing but I have to wonder how much ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria is growing on it. I am wondering if it is only growing on the top of it. If that is the case you may need to stir it from time to time if you are trying to grow enough bacteria to quickly cycle your big tank.
To be perfectly honest though I'm not sure you need a bucket full of media. I would think the sponge filters and only enough rock type media to fit into your filter would grow enough bacteria. You don't need a ton of media to help cycle your big tank. The most important thing is growing enough bacteria to keep processing a steadily increasing amount of ammonia.
Once all the media in this bucket is moved to your 20 gallon you can still keep increasing the amount of ammonia. You only need to have the amount of media you plan on having in the big tank. Again, it isn't the amount of media you have in the bucket that determines how much bacteria there will be. It is the amount of ammonia it will process. Once everything is moved to the 20 gallon you should be able to grow plenty of bacteria, if not to instantly cycle the big tank, but plenty to give it a great start.
Seeing how quickly the bacteria has been growing to process the steadily increasing amount of ammonia you are adding to the bucket shows you just how quickly the bacteria grows to clear out the extra ammonia. It will do the same thing in the 20 gallon and again in the big tank so once all this bacteria is moved over there the bacteria will quickly grow to handle 3, 4 or even 5ppm ammonia in the big tank.
All this to say, I don't think you need over a couple of inches of media in the bottom of the bucket. That should leave more room for water circulation.
I think this is a really neat idea. I can't wait to see photos of this tank manBigBeardDaHuZi said:Day Two: Oof
The stink did not take long. I got a nice 1.5 ppm on ammonia, but the water is slimy and has a faint stench. Well, kind of faint. "Stench" is probably the right word though.
The control bucket is getting dumped and cleaned. I pulled the shrimp from the test bucket too, but I didn't dump the water yet. I put some media from a cycled tank in today and I want to give it a chance to get started. I will see how the numbers look tomorrow.
I am going to fill up the other bucket with some water to de-chlorinate over night and I will probably change the water on the test bucket tomorrow. (I don't want to add a dechlorinator because that would bind up my ammonia/nitrites).
After that, I will need to try again to get some pure ammonia or just go with fish food.
This experiment has been a success of sorts already. I can definitely recommend not trying the shrimp.
That is funnyummy1:BigBeardDaHuZi said:bucket children handle?
Yeah, I am using test strips. JBL from Germany. I wish i could find the Tetra ones here.mattgirl said:I have to wonder where all the nitrates came from in the 20 gallon. It hasn't processed enough ammonia to have anywhere near that much nitrate.
since you are having to test so often have you considered test strips? they are quick. easy and should give you ball park numbers.
Your JBL test strips may be just as reliable as any of the others but I am still wondering where those nitrates are coming from. I have to think it is a false reading in this case.BigBeardDaHuZi said:Yeah, I am using test strips. JBL from Germany. I wish i could find the Tetra ones here.
It could be that the test strips aren't right. I really need to pick up an API Master test kit and check them
We'll see how it looks tomorrow
So, with the test strips, my nitrate reading looks pretty reasonable after 30 seconds, but by the time the ammonia test vial is done settling and ready to read, the nitrate marker is much darker.mattgirl said:Your JBL test strips may be just as reliable as any of the others but I am still wondering where those nitrates are coming from. I have to think it is a false reading in this case.
The liquid tests do seem to be as reliable as we need them to be. I wouldn't be testing for nitrates daily during this experiment though. There really is no need to know the exact nitrate number. the ammonia, nitrite and pH are the numbers we need to check on. As long as the ammonia is going down the cycle is moving forward.
HahaBigBeardDaHuZi said:While the beard is away, the nitrates will play
If it were me I would go ahead and add ammonia after the water change in the 20 gallon. Since there are no fish to worry about it isn't going to be a problem letting the nitrites continue to raise before the drop. Feeding just continues to grow ammonia eating bacteria.BigBeardDaHuZi said:Day 30 - While the beard is away, the nitrates will play
Bucket
0
0
Nitrates 250
Doing a 75% water change - dose to 9ppm
20 gallon - Nitrite stall
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 10
Nitrates 250
Doing a 50% water change - no new dose. I want the Nitrites to catch up
The ammonia eaters are on course, but the nitrite chompers are lagging/stalling again. They are definitely there.mattgirl said:If it were me I would go ahead and add ammonia after the water change in the 20 gallon. Since there are no fish to worry about it isn't going to be a problem letting the nitrites continue to raise before the drop. Feeding just continues to grow ammonia eating bacteria.
Good Morning BigbeardBigBeardDaHuZi said:I have a big tank coming in a month and most of my research is done. I need something new to work on while I wait. Hence the experiment.
Question: Can you do a complete cycle in a bucket and start off with a cycled tank?
(I say cycled, not seasoned. Once the media is in the actual tank, things will still need to settle.)
Equipment: Two big buckets with 20L of water in each.
Bucket One will have a sponge filter in the bottom and 10 kilos of ceramic balls.
It also has about a kilo of crushed coral to buffer the KH and keep the pH over 7. (My water out of the tap is 7 pH, 6 KH, 7 GH)
After the ammonia starts to show up, I will also add a little bit of cycled media from another tank. - I'm a little torn on this one. I am curious if the cycle will complete without the nudge, but also really want the cycle to finish in a month. Any thoughts?
The temperature is about 25 celcius/75 fahrenheit. I may add a heater later to kick it up a notch. Also, fall is setting in. My house may get a bit cooler.
Bucket Two is the control bucket. It will have an airstone to keep the water moving/prevent stagnation.
Source of Ammonia: Fresh, dead shrimp.
I don't have access to Dr. Tim's and, also, I am a bit inclined to try the natural method. This will not be as accurate, but the shrimp will be a constant source of ammonia and will not require fiddling with drops of ammonia on a daily basis. In Bucket Two, we should see how much ammonia one shrimp can produce. If needed, in Bucket One I can double, triple or quadruple the shrimp as time goes on.
Assumption: One dead shrimp will produce as much ammonia as six 3" African Cichlids.
Assumption: The shrimp will start to stink after a while and I will probably need to change them out from time to time.
How long till they stink? Will the ammonia in the control bucket reach levels toxic to bacteria?
Assumption: One fresh, dead shrimp will produce as much ammonia as six 3" African Cichlids.
Blah, I had this all spaced out and formatted for easy reading. Apparently spaces are the devil and they have all been eliminated.
I have heard of pondguru. I really need to look him up before I stuff my sump.Backblast72 said:Good Morning Bigbeard
I am constantly reading about our hobby and I found this media called: “Biohome.” The neat thing about this stuff is that it allows you to have both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria in your media. The aerobic bacteria will help you with the conversion of ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. But aerobic bacteria will not convert nitrite into nitrate. And this is where our anaerobic friends come into play. The anaerobic bacteria will convert nitrate into soluble nitrogen and thus, completing your nitrogen cycle. There is even a guy on YouTube called Richard aka: “The Pondguru.” He explains in great detail how this media works and why it works the way it does. He also, gives you great tips and advice on how to properly have your media baskets inside your canister filter to not only maximize filtration but also complete your natural nitrogen cycle.
There is also these bacteria balls that he talks about which are filled with this gel and you put them inside your media baskets which help you jump start your cycle in the tank and ensure you don’t suffer from new tank syndrome. I used something similar in my set up of my 75 gallon dirted tank and it work great. By the end of six weeks my tank was cycled. So I would recommend taking a look at these. Especially if your looking at a large tank set up. They usually require bigger colonies of this beneficial bacteria and getting all the help you can will only help you in the long run. Oh and by the way, I did a fish in cycle and my fishes are doing well.
Within the last week. The bucket always get filtered water. I put conditioner in the 20 after a water changemattgirl said:I agree, this is perplexing. Strange that every thing has almost come to a standstill. I have to think something it needs has been depleted and needs to be replenished. Have you changed any water in either tank or bucket lately?
Maybe they just needed some rest time Hopefully they will get back to processing all that ammonia after this short time snooze.BigBeardDaHuZi said:Within the last week. The bucket always get filtered water. I put conditioner in the 20 after a water change
