Starting A 125 Discus Tank.

coralbandit
  • #81
They look good and I dig you got the Dr. going.
Have you had to clean the mesh ?
My LFS say they just made a order of Hans Discus [30 or 40 @3 inches] that should arrive this week !
Right before my trip to DM but I do also have a butt load of credit at LFS !
I told him how all you guys with Hans discus are very happy and how the fish looked good ..
Now I am wondering how long this upcoming week will really be for me and what might really happen !ops:
One day at a time !
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #82

81B7118D-2AA5-4F21-A062-053E77BBD2E2.jpeg
0C0D3BAA-5D1B-4DC4-BD05-0C1ACB01CF26.jpeg Best I can tell now is first pic . First pair are the silver pigeon bloods 2nd pair snakeskin pigeons and the last are the Flachen snakeskins. They are doing a little searching of the tank now. Still skittish.
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #83
No haven't changed the mesh yet. What am I looking for to tell me when to change it? Will order a few new ones. I’ve added the dr to all but the shrimp tank.
Wow that’s great that your local store orders discus from places like Hans. Mine still hasn’t moved the ones it has . Not much interest in discus here anymore. Even my interest is over for more discus. My tank will be full with these last 6.

Thedudeiam94 are yours eating blackworms yet? If so how long did it take.
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #84
I have only used the Hans flake and frozen beef-heart that I had recently purchased prior to getting my discus from Hans. However once this package is gone I will be ordering some of Hans personal beef-heart mix. I was considering buying the freeze dried Blackworm cubes with spinach online but haven’t decided yet.
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #85
Well I’ve thrown in the freeze dried black worms(fdbw) every time I’ve fed them(3times) and they are now slowly moving on them. Not all but more each time. Hope to have them all eating them by tomorrow. Still a little skittish but seeing more color .

As to everything else in the 125. It’s seems to be moving along nicely plants are growing and all the other fish are doing well.
image.jpg
image.jpg
 
coralbandit
  • #86
In 'soft' water the mesh seems to last a year or so .
In harder water it fails or clogs quickly .
You not having to do anything to it still means you have soft /low TDS water .
The mesh is like the element in electric water heaters ..It gets build up on it and needs to be serviced/cleaned /replaced .
I stopped using them in any tank with tap water and basically keep about 8 of them in a breeding tanks that I lower the TDS in .Seems my tap TDS 350 clogs them quickly .
You know regardless of clogging that it needs to be replaced when it is on and bubbles are few or noticeably less then new ..

Yea I may have to swing by my LFS this week and see what he got .. I don't really want juveniles to raise now ,but I do have a but load of credit ..
Ha had LeopoldI angels today even !

It takes my rams maybe a week to get on the FDBW deal .
More and more join in daily till it is like an all out bum rush for them ..
You are sticking them to glass[ cubes] or offering loose ?
The results of the FDBW are worth getting your fish on them .
Thedudeiam94 get the spinach infused ..They cost more but spinach is the fastest most readily absorbed source of iron for fish there is ..
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #87
Well I’ve thrown in the freeze dried black worms(fdbw) every time I’ve fed them(3times) and they are now slowly moving on them. Not all but more each time. Hope to have them all eating them by tomorrow. Still a little skittish but seeing more color .

As to everything else in the 125. It’s seems to be moving along nicely plants are growing and all the other fish are doing well.View attachment 567649View attachment 567650

Have you considered lifting that driftwood above the heater? I think it would look better higher up. That’s just my opinion though!!
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #88
Yes that wood will go back up. I moved it down just to give them something else to hide around. It was up high till yesterday. Or are you talking about the 125. If so the one in the 45 I plan to put over it and to the left. Amazing how many fish take advantage of those pieces. Snails too.
 
jmaldo
  • #89
Yep, when I purchased mine, the breeder recommended FDBW along with FDBW with spinach. I switch it up and they devour both. . I normally cut the cube in quarters and soak in a small amount of tank water then dump it in. I also squeeze a cube to get moist in tank water and then stick it the glass.
Gone within 5 -10 mins, Highly recommend!
They also get Frozen Brine and Mysis shrimp. Just started adding some flake food,

I will be ordering some of Hans personal beef-heart mix.
Let me know how it goes I may get some to give as a treat once in awhile

I am considering trying a receipe a member uses on another forum. (No Beefheart).
Here it is:
I use:
on sale small shrimp, mushed in a blender;
on sale white fish, or mock crab, blendered;
seaweed (dulse) from the coast, blender chopped fine. If you can't get it, peas, spinach, peas and carrots baby food, etc. Predators eat herbivores and get their plant gut contents;
astaxanthin powder (if I can get it, mild paprika if I can't);
food grade cricket powder (a new addition since I can get it in the grocery store here);
maybe water soluble avian vitamins, maybe not;
enough gelatin to hold it more or less together.

When it's set, I freeze it in large ziplock freezer bags, flattened so I can break pieces off easily (that's essential). People who believe garlic helps can add that, or people who win jars of krill fines at the fish club (my last batch) can throw the powder in.
 
coralbandit
  • #90
Yep, when I purchased mine, the breeder recommended FDBW along with FDBW with spinach. I switch it up and they devour both. . I normally cut the cube in quarters and soak in a small amount of tank water then dump it in. I also squeeze a cube to get moist in tank water and then stick it the glass.
Gone within 5 -10 mins, Highly recommend!
They also get Frozen Brine and Mysis shrimp. Just started adding some flake food,


Let me know how it goes I may get some to give as a treat once in awhile

I am considering trying a receipe a member uses on another forum. (No Beefheart).
Here it is:
I use:
on sale small shrimp, mushed in a blender;
on sale white fish, or mock crab, blendered;
seaweed (dulse) from the coast, blender chopped fine. If you can't get it, peas, spinach, peas and carrots baby food, etc. Predators eat herbivores and get their plant gut contents;
astaxanthin powder (if I can get it, mild paprika if I can't);
food grade cricket powder (a new addition since I can get it in the grocery store here);
maybe water soluble avian vitamins, maybe not;
enough gelatin to hold it more or less together.

When it's set, I freeze it in large ziplock freezer bags, flattened so I can break pieces off easily (that's essential). People who believe garlic helps can add that, or people who win jars of krill fines at the fish club (my last batch) can throw the powder in.

Recipe sounds familiar ...You can get the Astaxanthin powder from kens fish ..I have had my bag for years as it mixes at like 1 part to 100 of food ..
I know everyone is all about beef heart but it is not the best for the discus,it is just the old way they did it [cheap] as getting seafood inland to make the recipe was impossible if not just way too expensive a land version [beef heart] was created ..Not the best ,the cheapest ...
Sounds like the recipe Gary {Navigator Black } had ..
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #91
Here is Hans recipe for his beef heart mix! Pretty similar to the mix that was recommended to you!
 
jmaldo
  • #92
Sounds like the recipe Gary {Navigator Black } had ..
Yep, Nav is the chef.
 
coralbandit
  • #93
Yep, Nav is the chef.
You won't find better info then from him ..
Ask him why we all use beefheart ..My story might sound familiar !
 
jmaldo
  • #94
coralbandit and Nav of the same mind.
Here is his take on the subject.
"My only beef is with feeding hearts... beef heart was a clever improvisation by old time aquarists because sea food was unavailable away from the coast in the era before regular commercial airline routes. Heart was the only meat without fat, and fish can't digest animal fats. So cows and goats had to do. I see no reason (except tradition) not to simplify our lives and use shrimp or white fish in all our old beefheart recipes. It's easily digested, cheap, available and effective.
Beefheart works, but so do a lot of things that are more trouble than they're worth when better ways exist."
 
coralbandit
  • #95
He always speaks better then I !
Maybe that is why he worked for TFH and is an English teacher !
Love Gary and owe him a ton of my approach to meeting him early on ..
Maybe we are both just old and have fish since like 6th grade !
They used protein skimmers on discus set ups back then also but we don't do that any more .. Old water is not what it used to be !
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #96
Not a fan of Beefheart. It’s just a mess in the tank. But the discus from Hans have only been fed Beefheart. Frozen Beefheart. I have some freeze dried but they just aren't eating it. When they attempt it looks like there eating beef jerky. Will get some frozen stuff today.
Also believe the Beefheart is the reason for bare bottom tanks. You have to remove the left over and bare bottom makes it that much easier.
My store bought devour the fdbw leaving very few left over for the rams. None leftover in the tank.
 
RyanLee
  • #97
Your tanks look nice. If your going to add the two groups of discus together. I would also suggest only adding one of the Hans discus to your big tank and waiting to see if he survives before you add them all in together.
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #98
Yes thank you and that is my plan. Was going to try the other way but in my opinion the Hans are the weaker fish. So I will add one wait add another wait than add the last 2 pair a pair at a time. May take a few months to move all. But I won’t be starting this for awhile I want to get the Hans fish eating the blackworms first. They even turned down the frozen bloodworms today. Stubborn Germans .
 
coralbandit
  • #99
The Hans discus are being exposed to your other discus via the cories right now as I see it ?
The cories were in with the Petco discus correct? I think I asked where they came from for just this reason ..
If so you have done the infection check IMO and now only need to worry about aggression which will likely occur regardless of shuffling tank around and turning out lights anyways ?
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #100
Never looked at it that way but yes you are right. Thanks for pointing it out . Had I thought about that I would have removed the Cory’s. Nice mistake .
 
coralbandit
  • #101
I don't usually QT fish but they usually get their own tank .
Sometimes I will add new fish with some others I know are good and I have plenty of ..It only risk my existing fish in theory ?
If the new fish die from exposure to my existing fish they are likely flawed ..Doing it today with new fish do to limited space ..
 
RyanLee
  • #102
Never looked at it that way but yes you are right. Thanks for pointing it out . Had I thought about that I would have removed the Cory’s. Nice mistake .

Didnt realize you had you new discus in with the corys, that may be why they are not eating well, they may be trying to adapt to bacteria from the corys.
 
fa4960
  • #103
Mine grew up on beefheart mix. At the time I had a lot of fish to feed twice a day so it seemed cost effective and also time effective to make a big batch of beefheart mix and get 6 - 7 flattened zip lock bags, keeping me with food for 3+ months. I don't know if it is something with my recipe but mine doesn't seem to pollute the water that much. It holds well together and only comes apart with the fish grabbing a bite.

As seafood is cheap here I did add a lot more prawns and white fish to mix than some recipes but still had a solid base of beefheart. As long as one is very careful removing all fat I don't see a reason not to feed them beefheart mix. I also fed a lot of frozen bloodworm during their grow out period but despite being frozen I still kind of suspect them for introducing worms and parasites to the tank. With the fish grown out I feed more dry food (HikarI Discus Bio-Gold & HikarI Tropical Vibra Bites) but they still favour beefheart mix whenever it is served and they will leave nothing to be removed. Yesterday I got them some live brine shrimps, which they loved too. Froze the rest so now also got a zip lock back of these to keep the variation going.

Should I ever decide to grow out some discus again I would surely put beefheart mix on the menu again as a main feed.

I meant know offense with the term 'dirty pigeon blood'. I did not invent it or think it necessarily derogatory ..I think they darken up like most show stress stripes ? They were such a hit when they were developed that so many breeders got into them that there are many now and the lines have not all been kept very select ?
I agree with jmaldo on the QT and different bacteria. We are back on the convo of the Asian discus carrying a infection that wipes out American discus fast ..
The owner /mod of the other forum who raise discus can speak to this as it was a very hot topic when he became a Watley distributor ..
I would conduct a thorough QT just to be sure .
As J mentions laststep of thorough QT is to add one of your fish to them when the coast seems all clear and see how that goes ..
I don't think anyone expects you to keep multiple discus tanks just to separate fish .. I don't ….YET !

Been down with dengue fever for more than a week so missed some posts in that period.....

I have a few (left) of very dirty pigeon bloods and I must say I would rather have been without them. Saw a few really big, nice and clean ones at the aquarium fish market out here over the weekend and could not help it but feel a bit jealous. Not only are mine dirty but they are also stunted so really not that nice, however I bought them so I keep them!

However have been thinking lately whether to add some more discus (6" or bigger) or whether to move my 4 GBR's and 5 - 6 L333 Plecos to the discus tank, as well as re-build my school of Rummy noses for current 6 out of 10 left to 40 - 50 or so... However I think the tank is too hot for the Rummy Noses so may leave them where they are.

However the fact that the discus only tank has now settled, especially in terms of various illnesses killing a fish here and there, I am quite reluctant to rock the boat....

I know there's QT to help minimise the risk but it doesn't sort the different bacteria challenge....what are you guys planning to do with your discus tank in terms of stocking?
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #104
Well bought frozen Beefheart yesterday. Thawed it and put some in and they went to it, hit it but ate next to none of it. Big winners here are the fish in my 90. They get all the leftovers.
BCAB7F1A-E53B-4B09-AF7B-FB9FA68D0D67.jpeg And eat everything . So not sure what’s up with the Beefheart? Could it be Hans has a special mix? Or was this store bought Beefheart just old? Remember not many people keeping discus anymore. On the bright side they are eating more and more fdbw. Hoping they will be attacking it soon.
Oh and none of my fish are bought at Petco or Petsmart. I buy through a local pet store. He gets his discus through breeders and keeps them in their own tank. Filtered independently. So he does try to do it right. Unforunatly he just can’t get people interested.
As to Hans fish. They are nice looking but I was hoping for the red thedudeiam94 fish are showing. Still not sure which of the pigeon blood are which? Time will tell.
D10B53EB-EDC1-4A52-AC49-6985BCB1F392.jpeg
5419E8CE-3F76-444F-9A94-E854F5B23DC7.jpeg Will take some individual photos of the Hans fish today .
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #105
Being that they are the “silver” pigeon bloods they will take slightly longer to produce their reddish colors. They don’t have much red to start with even as adults so it will be another month before you start to see any reddish coloration I assume.

But on the other hand they look great and I love the bluish color the one white pair! And also to answer your other question, yes, Hans does make a special beef heart mixture. I have planned to purchase some once I run out of my plain beef heart cubes I purchased from my lfs. However my fish do eat the plain beef heart cubes, they don’t finish all of it (only eat around 60% ) which results in my vacuuming out the leftover bits and pieces. I assume they don’t finish it because it isn’t near the same as hans mixture. Plain beef heart vs. Hans beef heart mixture. I’m sure they would devour Hans mix every time. But that will be a later video! I will try to work on the video quality also so that way maybe everyone can get a better look at them!
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #106
Well when I left for work tonight they had eaten both the fdbw and some flake food. So progress is being made . Some close up pics of the fish.
5FEF99FB-E748-421F-A347-C2937085D311.jpeg
31564E0C-7679-4AFA-9191-A6DB5DDCFB22.jpeg
6FFD2048-3B8D-4B37-9E0D-CCC9914580E7.jpeg
88AC4E20-890B-48CC-9AB7-A198C0D9995C.jpeg
492421DB-3689-47BD-B390-FB7F9B9049D8.jpeg
80D7BC32-1161-4E1E-B8B6-F3AC7AA49908.jpeg
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #107
Yeah I really like the neon blue looking pair! But they all look really nice and symmetrical! Awesome looking fish!
 
coralbandit
  • #108
I like the first pic !
The subtle stripes or are they stress bars ?
What's the difference ? No joke ? I mean how do you know the difference .Only the breeder knows his intentions ..
I really like it and stripes on the brown discus I have seen..
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #109
I like the first pic !
The subtle stripes or are they stress bars ?
What's the difference ? No joke ? I mean how do you know the difference .Only the breeder knows his intentions ..
I really like it and stripes on the brown discus I have seen..

The first one is also my favorite! It could be striping due to stress or it could be due to the fact that the fish is still a juvenile and still somewhat transparent. If it it from stress it should fade away as time goes on.
 
BarbaraLocke
  • #110
I just found this discussion while trying to learn about Discus, as I’ve been given a 50 gallon corner hexagon tank with stand and all the equipment! First let me say that the stand you built, 86 ssinit, is a work of art!! I have been thinking that some Discus would be perfect for my tank, and the filter, heater and aeration I have is what is recommended - so, while it’s cycling (with help from media from my other tanks), I’m learning

One of the first things I’ve learned is that Discus need a much warmer tank than other FWF, yet I see that you have Cory’s with yours. I fell in love with Cory’s when I rescued one that had been badly chewed up, and is now thriving. My LFS has some new Cory’s with black spots and bright orange fins, that are just beautiful, and I’d love to have some in my new tank - but I thought Cory’s like cooler water. I see that you are keeping Cory’s with your Discus, so what temp do you keep your tanks at?
 
jmaldo
  • #111
BarbaraLocke
Welcome! We have a good group of relative newbies to share our trials, tribulations and bounce ideas back and forth.
86 ssinit nikm128 Thedudeiam94 and soon coralbandit

Here are some other threads you might want to take a peek at, quite a bit of good info scattered between them.

Discus Info From Successful Discus Keepers? | Discus Fish Forum | 395674

The Han’s Experience! | Freshwater Aquarium Journals Forum | 410490

Jmaldo's Discus Build | Freshwater Aquarium Builds Forum | 402889

Sick Discus Please Help | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 394039

Good Luck!
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #112
I just found this discussion while trying to learn about Discus, as I’ve been given a 50 gallon corner hexagon tank with stand and all the equipment! First let me say that the stand you built, 86 ssinit, is a work of art!! I have been thinking that some Discus would be perfect for my tank, and the filter, heater and aeration I have is what is recommended - so, while it’s cycling (with help from media from my other tanks), I’m learning

One of the first things I’ve learned is that Discus need a much warmer tank than other FWF, yet I see that you have Cory’s with yours. I fell in love with Cory’s when I rescued one that had been badly chewed up, and is now thriving. My LFS has some new Cory’s with black spots and bright orange fins, that are just beautiful, and I’d love to have some in my new tank - but I thought Cory’s like cooler water. I see that you are keeping Cory’s with your Discus, so what temp do you keep your tanks at?

Yes discus go need higher temperature water however depending on which species of Cory you choose will be based off of weather they can withstand those same temperatures that the discus fish would need to be able to live comfortably and thrive. There are some species such as SterbaI that can withstand slightly warmer water. That doesn’t necessarily mean that is what’s best for them but some of them can handle it. I however choose to keep only discus in my tank to limit the amount of fecal matter and bacteria in the tank. But I keep my temperature in my tank anywhere from 86 to 88 degrees Fahrenheit. I personally would recommend doing a bare bottom tank with discus only to ensure your discus are thriving and make your water changes super simple. However I’m sure if you maintain your tank well and remember to stay on top of your water changes everything should be fine. Remember keep in mind that discus grow to be pretty good size fish so try to have the tank as less crowded as possible but still have some hiding places. They enjoy having lost of swimming room. Have you decided on where you might be purchasing your discus from?
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #113
Yes I do keep Cory’s with the discus. Most breeders and books recommend them. What I have are green colored bronze Cory’s. This Cory has been in the trade forever!! Been bred by anyone who’s tried! Even me . So with that said it’s a durable fish and the temps don’t phase it. It won’t breed in these temps.
Now most will go with a bare bottom tank. It’s just easier for cleanup. But when the fish get bigger will move them into a regular setting tank. Since yours is a 50 I would go bare bottom. My holding tank is a 45 and it’s barebottom. Also my tanks are at 84.5 degrees. Discus can do well in any temp over 82 to 90.
My 125 is a regular gravel and planted tank. I’m not the only one to go this way. Other do the same. Remember the goal is to put these beautiful fish into a nice setting. fa4960 went this route in a 300g tank a few years ago.
As to the stress lines. Well that’s what they were 20 years ago. As a keeper you did what you could to keep them from showing. Are breeders breeding for those lines? I can’t imagine why? But I don’t know. Heckles greens and browns would have the lines. Because most were wild caught or at best 2nd 3rd gen fish. But when all is right in your tank the lines would fade. Except for heckles their lines are like angelfish.
Thing about discus is they are demanding. You must put the time into the tank. In smaller tanks they must have the water changed a lot! Minimum of 3 times a week and more is better. In a tank like mine I’m doing twice a week. Every other day in the 45.
This morn they tore into the fdbw .
847525C6-99D6-49B8-8A27-4224A8606AEC.jpeg
F6F69794-3C03-4191-B6C5-8B0AD3D4303C.jpeg
F47A8B76-5F4C-49EF-9186-78AEC3A1ECE6.jpeg and come on stop looking at the fish
0D25DD02-34D1-426A-B9AA-C6B7DF2C2AD1.jpeg
 
nikm128
  • #114
One of the first things I’ve learned is that Discus need a much warmer tank than other FWF, yet I see that you have Cory’s with yours. I fell in love with Cory’s when I rescued one that had been badly chewed up, and is now thriving. My LFS has some new Cory’s with black spots and bright orange fins, that are just beautiful, and I’d love to have some in my new tank - but I thought Cory’s like cooler water. I see that you are keeping Cory’s with your Discus, so what temp do you keep your tanks at?
There is one type of cory that can tolerate the temperature requirements of discus, they're called sterbaI cory's and I'm pretty sure that's what 86 ssinit has here. Think he said the temp is 84-85
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #115
Is that fist photo one of your new fish from Hans already showing signs of peppering?
 
coralbandit
  • #116
I agree on SterbaI being best cory for high temp as I have been told over and over ..I have no personal experience with cories worth mentioning at all though !
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #117
Is that fist photo one of your new fish from Hans already showing signs of peppering?
Yes it is. Is this a good thing?
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #118
It’s not necessarily a bad thing! Just surprised that they have begun to do that already. What color is the background of your tank? Actually you don’t have one like I do. Hmm weird that is happening so fast...
 
86 ssinit
  • Thread Starter
  • #119
In that photo 2 are showing the peppering and they are of different types. A silver and a red. The blues are in charge and do push everyone around.
 
Thedudeiam94
  • #120
I’ve read that it’s just something genetic in the pigeon blood gene that causes it. Some more than others. Nothing wrong with the fish at all just not very aesthetically pleasing to look at. Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with them and that once they start to grow hopefully they will not have much peppering and their natural colors pop out more. Time will tell.
 

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