Start over from scratch

I have/had a Fluval View 4 gallon tank with a betta, 4 nerite snails, an anubias, and a marimo moss ball.

A couple of months ago the betta had popeye. I thought I'd treated it successfully, but though the eye got better and he seemed to regain his appetite, he soon became listless and lost his appetite and eventually died, though he *looked* OK.

I'm going to switch to a slightly larger, easier to clean tank (5 gallon) which I'll probably stock with a small selection of fish, not enough to crowd.

Should I toss the seemingly healthy plants and snails to prevent reinfection? I have a piece of driftwood the anubias is attached to, and I thought to trash that at least, as that might be the most likely to retain any pathogens, and I think little bits might be coming off it an creating litter anyway, but I could detach the anubias.

Along those lines, I'd purchased the snails some time back and there might have been a mistake: I'd told the aquarium shop people that I had a 4 gallon with a betta, but they might have unthinkingly sold me 4 snails because the place had a sale on that many and they thought they were giving me a good deal but instead overloaded the biological capacity of the tank. Do 4 snails belong in a now 5 gallon tank with several fish?

 

Welcome to Fish Lore!

What kind of fish do you want to stock? Unfortunately, not many fish will live comfortably in a 5 gal.

 

Maybe a planted shrimp tank great personality

 

Maybe a planted shrimp tank great personality

This is really a great fun idea!

A 5 gallon also makes a great Betta tank.

 

OK, will go for a 10-20 G tank.

Toss the anubias, marimo, and snails and start from scratch?

 

Anubias, marimo and snails can definitely go in the tank, regardless of the size I would feel comfortable putting them right in the tank, but maybe you could do a diluted peroxide or bleach dip for the plants to be sure? Don't dip the snail though! I would think you could follow this bleach dip:


You're more limited with fish in a smaller tank. You're still pretty limited in a 10 gal, so I would go with a 20 gal if you want more options.

 

I agree, a 20 gallon long really opens a lot up. Petsmart had a 20 gallon long for $20 which is a great deal.

 

Went for a 23 gallon tank. Haven't done setup yet.

 

Went for a 23 gallon tank. Haven't done setup yet.

Nice job ScottR!!! You will never regret getting a 23 over a 10! And what ever you put in it will thank you too!

Tank is undergoing leak testing now.
A small early irritation: I got a Fluval Vista 23 Stand for it. The instructions didn't match the parts... that is, the instructions told me to to put dowels into some holes that were in places other than as shown, and into others that didn't exist at all. I called Hagen and was told they'd have to look into it. Didn't hear back for hours, called back, and they close early. Called corporate number and was told they'd get back to me on Monday.
Screw it. Put it together using logic.

Anyway... gotta decide what I'm going to put into the tank... other than the anubias, marimo moss, and the snails.

 

What's the footprint?

You could do a school of warm water cory, a pair of rams, and a larger school of beautiful schooling fish?

 

30" x 12" x 18"

Picked up some ammonia for the nitrogen cycle... . The review comment said "If you're an aquarium hobbyist looking for a source of clear ammonia to fishless-cycle your new aquarium, this is it. No surfacants, soaps or other additives, just ammonium hydroxide in a water solution."

The hardware store didn't have eyedroppers so I went next door to a Rite Aid and *they* didn't have eyedroppers. A drug store that doesn't sell eyedroppers?

 

30" x 12" x 18"

Picked up some ammonia for the nitrogen cycle... . The review comment said "If you're an aquarium hobbyist looking for a source of clear ammonia to fishless-cycle your new aquarium, this is it. No surfacants, soaps or other additives, just ammonium hydroxide in a water solution."

The hardware store didn't have eyedroppers so I went next door to a Rite Aid and *they* didn't have eyedroppers. A drug store that doesn't sell eyedroppers?

A 30" x 12" x 18" is 29 gallons.

 

A 30" x 12" x 18" is 29 gallons.

I figured out the discrepancy: the front is curved. Twelve inches is the widest part of the curve, narrowing down to 10" at both ends. Assuming it's not meant be filled to the top, that should be 23 gallons.

 

You still have many options! What kind of fish do you like?

 

You still have many options! What kind of fish do you like?

I've just had a lonely betta these past few years, so this'll be new territory for me!

 

Why don't you visit your local fish stores and check online and see what fish you like? Write down their names and tell us which ones you like. We can help with stocking

 

Thanks. I've been looking at kuhlI loach and chilI rasboras... though ultimately, of course, I'm limited by whatever I can get locally. The shop I bought my tank from (a pretty big non-chain store with a nice selection) gave me a $10 credit for fish, so I'll start by looking at their stuff. Way, way more than Petco.

I know that 1" of fish per gallon isn't an absolute rule, but would 1-2 kuhlis and 6 rasboras be a good start? I presume I should add them consecutively, to let the tank adjust to the bioload.

 

Thanks. I've been looking at kohl loach and chilI rasboras... though ultimately, of course, I'm limited by whatever I can get locally. The shop I bought my tank from (a pretty big non-chain store with a nice selection) gave me a $10 credit for fish, so I'll start by looking at their stuff. Way, way more than Petco.

I know that 1" of fish per gallon isn't an absolute rule, but would 1-2 kohl and 6 rasboras be a good start? I presume I should add them consecutively, to let the tank adjust to the bioload.

6 kuhlI loaches and chilI rasboras would be a great combo! Kuhlis are schooling fish and do best in groups of 6+. Less than that and they stress and hide. I'd also do more than 6 chilis actually, maybe 10-15? They're nano fish, and you can keep them in larger schools.

 

Would that bump me up to the max with a 23 gallon tank? I.e., if I want to add additional fish.

Just noticed that autocorrect changed kuhlI to kohl.

I'll edit my post to fix that.

 

Would that bump me up to the max with a 23 gallon tank? I.e., if I want to add additional fish.

Just noticed that autocorrect changed kuhlis to kohl.

I'll edit my post to fix that.

Depends on what additional fish you want to add. I think you could add a bottom dweller like a ram or krib or apisto or another nano fish school.

 

OK, so far considering: a krib, a ram, 10 chilI rasboras (or similar variety, depending on LFS stock).
I'm debating a half-dozen loaches. Would I need to replace at least some of my gravel with sand for them? Also, from what I've been reading bottom dwellers can be an issue with feeding--i.e, if they get the food or not (for that matter, a ram is a bottom feeder, isn't it?).

Any thoughts on these combinations for a 23 gallon tank? Any additions/substitutions?

And should I add them over the course of a few weeks--i.e., one species at a time--to let the system get used to the bio-load?

 

I personally would be weary of adding a ram and a krb in the same tank that is less than 55 gallons. Maybe it would be ok but they inhabit the same area of the tank and are both semI aggressive and would fear they will fight in a 29 gallon tank. Here is what I would suggest

1 Ram OR 1 Krib
10-15 ChilI Rasboras
6-8 KuhlI Loaches

Later on once the tank has run for a while and you are sure the inhabitants are doing well, you may have room to add another ram or krib to make a pair. Or perhaps a honey gourami.

DEFINITELY do not add them all at once. I would start with adding half of your chilI rasbora population one week and monitor. A week later do the other half. Then do half of your kuhlI population the next week, then the next week add the rest. Then after all of that add your ram/krib.

You may be fine doing one species at a time but I don't like to add more than 4 fish at a time in one week. I am always safer than sorry when it comes to that sort of thing. ChilI Rasboras would be fine to do 5-10 I would think though in one week. Plus it gives you more time to change your mind

EDIT: Also just a note about kuhlI loaches. Be aware that if you do kuhlI loaches you may not see them for a few weeks or a few months. They are very shy and will hide until they get comfortable with surroundings. Adding several hiding places like coverings/caves/plants will encourage them and I always like to do as many kuhlI loaches as possible because the more there are the more they will explore. And if it were me, no matter what bottom dwelling fish I had, I would do sand. I have gravel now and am about to redo my tank with blasting sand. It's much better for your bottom dwellers

 

I agree with tyguy7760. I wouldn't add both a ram and krib. They are very territorial and if you are going to add another of the same species down the road, it should be of the opposite sex. I had 2 female kribs and one kept harassing the other til I had to return one of them.
Also, even if you get a M/F pair of the same species, they may not be a mated pair esp if you get them at different times. I would just stick to 1 dwarf cichlid in that tank size.

 

Thanks. So basically stick species, rasboras, loaches, and a ram?

I've read here about people using "non-aquarium" sand, but is there an issue about contaminants that can't be removed by rinsing... e.g., heavy metals and the like?

 

I am about to use black diamond blasting sand from tractor supply. I can't say with first hand experience that this stuff is fine but there are literally tons of forum members that use it. And it's cheap. It is rather dirty so it takes a bit of rinsing but everyone says it is fish safe

 

Many members here use Black Diamond Blasting Sand and Pool Filter Sand. I have PFS myself and love it. I've had no issues so far.

 

+1, I have PFS in my 45gal corner tank, everything is good.

 

black diamond sand blasting sand is what I use. It was $7.99 for 50 pounds. Can't beat that!!

I didn't have to clean it much at all. I just rinsed it in a bucket for 10 minutes and viola! The water in the tank was gray and cloudy for a few hours, but I didn't spend a ton of time washing the sand (technically this stuff is coal slag) like some people do. And by the next day my water was crystal clear. And all my fish are fine. I have been using it for maybe 5-6 months now...

 

Is black being used because it doesn't show waste as much?

I have white gravel in place and I'd be inclined to match it (i.e. replacing about 1/4-1/3 of the gravel with sand) but I'm also thinking about how difficult it'll be to vacuum the sand.

 

Is black being used because it doesn't show waste as much?

I have white gravel in place and I'd be inclined to match it (i.e. replacing about 1/4-1/3 of the gravel with sand) but I'm also thinking about how difficult it'll be to vacuum the sand.

Black makes the waste even EASIER to see. So no, black is not used for that reason. I ended up with black because the sand blasting sand was black and that was the most affordable sand at $7.99 for 50 pounds.

Vacuuming it isn't too bad. You just hover over the sand...maybe a half inch above the sand and it sucks up the debris that is resting on the sand. There is no need to shove the syphon into the sand because it will just suck up the sand and there is no need to do that as the debris all rests on top of the sand.

EDIT: I don't know what vacuuming would be like if you have sand AND gravel though....

 

EDIT: I don't know what vacuuming would be like if you have sand AND gravel though....

I was thinking about a divided tank: remove the gravel from 1/4 to 1/3 of the tank (i.e., completely remove it down to bare glass) and replace it with sand.

 

Do you mean putting up a divider going up the length of the tank or separating the two substrates into two sections? Considering the fact that you are going to get loaches, I doubt you will be able to stop the 2 substrates from mixing unless there is a method to separate them that I'm not aware of.

 

I've seen some tanks with gravel sections and sand sections so I know it's possible but the physics has me puzzled on how it can stay like that long term

 

So, is it better to replace all of the gravel I have with sand, if I'm going to get loaches, or do loaches do OK with gravel and good places to hide?

 

I can't say for sure. However, I have had a particularly difficult time keeping my kuhlI loaches and cory cats healthy over the past several months. I can't blame my difficulties solely on the substrate but I feel like the gravel, in some way, has contributed to my issues.

Short story time. 7 months ago I purchased 3 kuhlI loaches (later identified as PAN03 Kuhli's and a Black Kuhli) from my LFS. I still have all 3. When they got more in, I bought 6 more kuhli's and put them in the tank. All 6 died within 3 or 4 days of purchase. So I decided to go with cory cats instead. About 2 months ago I picked up 6 cory cats from 2 different stores and over a 4 week time period they died one by one. Now I was not experiencing other mysterious fish deaths during this time...just from my bottom dwellers (well except guppies but found out my cichlid was killing them). When my 6 cory cats got down to two, I decided to take them out and put them in my 5 gallon fluval just until I could get them to the LFS. They lived in there for 3 weeks without any issue until I could take them back. My fluval spec v has sand. Same water source. Same everything. Last week I bought 2 more kuhlI loaches because I wanted to try again. Both died within 3 or 4 days.

My water levels are perfect. None of my other fish seem sick or have died.

That is why I said earlier that I think no matter what bottom feeder you have, sand is better. If it were me I'd do sand if you are going to have bottom feeders or fish that stay ON the substrate the majority of the time.

 

Hmm... I hope I'm not overcomplicating this...

I guess a gravel-high piece of lexan dividing the tank... maybe with some driftwood or rocks on top, both as a aesthetic topping and to prevent the two from being kicked over the barrier?

 

I suppose that could work. It would at least allow the kuhlI loaches top get on some sand if they wanted to.

 

I bought a 50LB bag of pool filter sand at my local pool store for 9.99 works great so I wouldnt be worried, just do some research!

 

I know I have a habit of overcomplicating things; it's just a matter of recognizing such *before* I start.

 

Don't sweat over complicating things. We all do that from time to time especially when we are trying to wrap our head around a new concept. In the end you are just wanting what is best for the fish.