Stalled(?) tank cycle, need guidance

Hello everyone!

I bought a 60 gallon tank from Petsmart in the first week of December with the intention of holding two goldfish that the wife brought home unexpectedly from a white elephant auction deal. Long story short, they didn't make it and a lot was learned and mistakes were made.

I began the fishless cycle journey and today its still fishless. I'm pretty confused to what I'm missing but basically since around January 18th I have tested this water daily and the nitrites and nitrate reading on the API liquid kit have been stalled at 2.0-5.0 Nitrite, and 80-160 Nitrate, ammonia non-existent. I was putting Dr Tims ammonia into the water and it did zero out after 24 hours. For the last two weeks, I have not put in any ammonia, I thought I might have been dosing too much, causing too high nitrite level, and the nitrates weren't keeping up. I did a 90% water change two weeks ago and a 50% water change two days ago, with dechlorinator. Within 24 hours the numbers are the same. Originally I was keeping the water at room temperature because no fish but started having it raised to around 82-85F to see if that'd make a difference but so far, nope. The Ph level was 7.4, I don't check it often.

I tested the 2.5g aquarium that a betta is in (long story short.. it was originally for the goldfish, it was expensive from Walmart, wanted some use out of it, betta got the short straw), and its showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and about 10-20 nitrate. I tested my tap water and there are no ammonia, nitrite or nitrate levels. I took a sample of the 60 gallonwater to Petsmart, they used strips, they got the same readings as I did. They said could be a false reading and I should get water from the middle of my tank (really? I tried water from the filter, same thing same reading) and suggested a few other things to try, like a water change and adding API quick start. If that doesn't work to use the API Stress Zyme. If that doesn't work to possibly break everything down and boil the aquarium rocks and start over.

So, at this point I should add that there was nothing in this tank. Just some generic aquarium rock I bought from Petsmart with the tank. It was originally going to be for goldfish so I didn't put in a ton of decor or fake plants. Over the last few weeks of research and troubleshooting with an empty tank I decided I didn't want to continue with the goldfish plan, I'd like more variety (still looking over stock options lol). SO, I decided I'd change it up. On Friday, I added some live plants (Dwarf Sagittaria, Bacopa Caroliniana, Red Flame Sword, Water Sprite, Vallisneria, Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus, Jungle Vallisneria) and a few Seiryu stones. I also bought a large sponge filter to put in the corner of the tank with a nonclog airstone and a coarse sponge for the HOB intake. Then I read the DIY guide for Silenstream HOBs, I have the PF75 filter and am going to follow Hikari's posts on how she modified her HOB today using a coarse sponge, some of the topfin filter cartridges minus the carbon for the fine media (may as well get use out of this huge box of replacement cartridges), and a good chunk of bio rings. My thought process here is maybe there isn't enough surface area for anymore bacteria and maybe most the bacteria is dead and I've been a bacteria morgue for the last month. Don't know if that works or if dead bacteria register on the test kits but sounded good in my head. Definition of insanity was beginning to set in, I think.

I don't know anyone personally that has an established tank that I can get filter media from and I asked Petsmart and they said they won't. The next closest pet store is a bit of a drive for me so its not terribly worth it. To be honest, at this point, I'm determined (and patient, unlike the wife) to make this work without the help of the bio-help lol. Kind of want to see it through in a sense instead of I give up, give me yours, done.

I know there is a lot of detail in here but this is the history of my fish tank to as accurate as I can remember and am open to some suggestions on what else I could try. I hope its enough to cover the basics at least and get you up to speed on where I'm at.

Cheers everyone, appreciate any thoughts/ideas/suggestions you might have.

 

I have to think your nitrite and nitrates are/were so high even the water changes you did didn't seem to lower them.

This tank needs a steady supply of ammonia. I recommend you change out enough water to get both nitrites and nitrates down to easily recognized numbers meaning a very pale purple for nitrites (2ppm or less) and a light orange for nitrates. This may take several water changes. Once done add your ammonia to feed the bacteria. I have a feeling you will find that this cycle is actually done but has been too far out of balance to finish up.

 

It looks like you've done a lot of research!

I think(???) what happened is the ammonia was converting into nitrites, but then stalled because of the high nitrates. Because you haven't fed any ammonia in two weeks all the ammonia converting bacteria is probably dead, but if there are still nitrites you might still have some nitrite converting bacteria. I'd recommend a large water change (enough to get nitrates down to something reasonable, like 10ppm or something) and then keep dosing ammonia. You don't want nitrates to get too high, because they can stall the cycle, but also because they can hurt plants if the get in the 100s.

I think mattgirl could probably explain more, and there's probably someone else on here who knows a lot about the cycle who I'm just forgetting right now.

 

It looks like you've done a lot of research!

I think(???) what happened is the ammonia was converting into nitrites, but then stalled because of the high nitrates. Because you haven't fed any ammonia in two weeks all the ammonia converting bacteria is probably dead, but if there are still nitrites you might still have some nitrite converting bacteria. I'd recommend a large water change (enough to get nitrates down to something reasonable, like 10ppm or something) and then keep dosing ammonia. You don't want nitrates to get too high, because they can stall the cycle, but also because they can hurt plants if the get in the 100s.

I think mattgirl could probably explain more, and there's probably someone else on here who knows a lot about the cycle who I'm just forgetting right now.

thanks for the shout out I don't think the ammonia eating bacteria has died off so once the other things are lowered and the cycle (bacteria) starts getting fed again I feel sure it will get right back to work.
ncwiad be sure to temp match and use your water conditioner during your water changes. Temp matching is almost as important for the bacteria as it is for our fish.

 

mattgirl will help you tremendously. In my opinion do a large 50-75% water change. Give it an hour to cycle through filter and test again. Then add ammonia and watch for it to drop in 24hrs.

 

mattgirl and aoiumI , thanks for the responses!

I'm hesitant to do water changes but will do another 25% water change today or daily for a while. Reason being is I use well water filtered through a water softener and all that jazz. On Friday I noticed that our water has like a super fine white powdery stuff, like the water softener salt is in the water. I doubt its that, though, I drink the water, no biggie. No odor, taste, texture, etc. But when I did the 50% earlier this week, it all floated to the surface and eventually was filtered out within a few hours or so but since I don't know what it is for sure, don't like it being in the tank. The water is going to be tested by a lab next week once I saw it, still concerning to me in general.

Just for the giggles, I'll put in some ammonia today and see if it still drops tomorrow. When I water change I do also keep it same temperature mainly because I didn't want to overwork the heater.

You guys are awesome!

 

You are very welcome. The most important thing is of course continuing to feed the bacteria but getting those nitrites and nitrates down is equally as important. I have seen cycles stall when they are this high. They will get so high the bacteria will stop processing the ammonia.

I understand your concern about your water but I am afraid this cycle will remain stalled if you can't get these numbers down, Is there any way you can bypass the filter?

One more question. What is the PH in this tank?

 

No worries about the stall I wasn't expecting a miracle answer to fix things overnight by any means, so I fully expect to have this go on for another week or two... or three.

The PH is 7.4 from the tap and 8.4 in the tank. Not sure why its that high, I can only assume its the rocks I put in throwing it off maybe. I don't use any other chemicals in the water.

Not sure on bypassing the filter. The only option I'd have is probably the outside water hose. Will check it and might just have to use buckets instead of the python. Its also stupid cold outside so the water would have to sit for a bit before dumping into the tank.

 

Oh don't worry about the stall I wasn't expecting a miracle answer or anything so I fully expect to have this go on for another week or two... or three.

I often takes a boat load of patience to do a fishless cycle and it looks like you have your share of it and then some. I truly do think if you can get both nitrites and nitrates down you will find that this cycle is actually done or very very close to done.

The PH is 7.4 from the tap and 8.4 in the tank. Not sure why its that high, I can only assume its the rocks I put in throwing it off maybe. I don't use any other chemicals in the water.

It is very possible that your water softener is buffering your PH down to 7.4. Once in the tank it seems to be going up to what might be the PH of the water before going through the softener. You could test that out by running your test on some water before it goes through the filter.

Not sure on bypassing the filter. The only option I'd have is probably the outside water hose. Will check it and might just have to use buckets instead of the python. Its also stupid cold outside so the water would have to sit for a bit before dumping into the tank.

That would be a hassle but may end up being necessary in the long run. Maybe you could get a large brute trash can for water storage and use a pump to fill your tank from it. If you need to use it right away boiling some water to add to it should warm it up enough to use right away.

 

I tested two different water sources. One of them is the laundry room sink which and the outside faucet.

Laundry PH: 7.4
Outside PH: 7.8

So I think you're on the money about it going back to normal in the tank.

I also emptied the last bit of a bottle of ammonia into the tank about an hour and a half ago and its showing right at 1ppm of Ammonia in the tank.

This is a new house for me so I'm not sure what plumbing is routed to what yet, haven't taken the time to find out.

I'm going to use the outside water for the water change, going to be tedious due to lack of extra buckets and no extra trash cans that I'd put water in.

So while that is going, also going to start working on modding the HOB per my original post and upload some pictures later cause I think you guys would appreciate it better than the wife lol, she just wants fish in it.

Off topic from the cycle, I bought an Aquatop Air Pump with two outlets but only have the sponge filter connected to it for now. Was considering an air wall or another airstone in the tank later on. Should I leave the second outlet empty or would it be ideal to cap it off with some air line hose? Noise isn't terrible compared to the HOB.

 

I normally cap off extra outlets. Can't say it is necessary but just something I've always done.

I always love seeing pictures Hopefully you can get to the bottom of why your HOB is noisy. I wouldn't even know mine are running if I didn't see water coming out of them.

 

I normally cap off extra outlets. Can't say it is necessary but just something I've always done.

I always love seeing pictures Hopefully you can get to the bottom of why your HOB is noisy. I wouldn't even know mine are running if I didn't see water coming out of them.

Good deal, wasn't sure if it'd create some back pressure and cause it to heat up and die.

The HOB noise just sounds like the impeller maybe. Its not terrible, its like a white noise for me. I know its not a well liked filter in general compared to other brands for varying reasons.

 

What brand of filter do you have? For years I used Aqua-tech filters until mine finally wore out after years of use. I bought a new one and was very disappointed when the motor fried in less than a month. I contacted the company and they immediately replaced it. The replacement did the same thing. I kept parts off them that I can use on other things and tossed the rest.

I have one penn-plax cascade 300 that I have had for many many years. I decided to take a chance and bought another one when my aqua-tech's failed me. That was over a year ago and it along with my original are still going strong. These are on the cheaper side but they are serving me well. On the plus side they always start right back up after being unplugged and there is a knob right on top to adjust the water flow. I use that option daily when I feed my fish. There is quite a bit of room for additional media. I don't use the cartridges made for them anymore.

Probably more info than you needed

 

I'm rocking a Silenstream PF75 filter. The noise it seems was from me not seating the intake very well causing a vibration. After I modded it and put it back in place it was louder than before and had to really smash it down to seat fully and now its quiet. Now I know.

It also has a variable flow knob on it which is great especially because of what I just did causing water to flood into the overflow effectively bypassing the filter system. Going to post up some pictures soon as I get them off my phone.

I also fully realize I probably jacked up any bacteria that might have survived by doing this. I tried to use as much previous filter cloth as I could but its in those TopFin cartridge cases and doesn't come free from it. I'm hoping the sponge filter being in the tank for the last three days MIGHT help it out a bit.

I don't mind the extra info, I've been on info overload for a few months now lol. Its nice to talk to others that aren't just trying to sell me something or just telling me to push fish in it and play survival of the fittest.

Pictures to come soon!

Edit:

https://imgur.com/a/C8eB4rM

 

Just providing an update from yesterday.

The white particulate I was talking about I'm told is likely just calcium in the water and I shouldn't be too worried about it. Sure. I did try water from the water spigot from outside and didn't seem different.

I did a 50% water change earlier this evening. Added dechlorinator, did not add any ammonia or the API Quick Start.

Prior to, the 1ppm ammonia that I tested from yesterday was only .5ppm. Not surprising since I messed with the filter yesterday.

Nitrites were still showing 2-5ppm and Nitrates were still 80 or 160. Its been a struggle with the colors outside or inside light, just tough to read.

Its been about three hours after I did the water change.
Ph: 8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 2-5
Nitrate: 40-80

Random thought... is it at all possible that the vials I'm using are tainting results? I normally just wash them out with tap water and do the test.

 

I normally just rinse my test tubes out after use. Some folks have recommended cleaning and drying them after each use but I just rinse them out and then turn them upside down in the wooden holder my hubby made for me, to dry.

 

I did another 70%ish water change last night. Put a nylon sock over the python hose when I was filling it to keep the particulate stuff I was talking about down to a minimum, worked very well.

Afterwards I only tested Nitrite and Nitrate which were 2-5ppm and 10-20ppm respectively. This was about two hours after the water change around 11:30PM.

I came home for lunch today 12:00PM and tested again. Still showing 2-5ppm nitrite and 40-80ppm nitrates now.

I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I noticed if I put the test vial up against my white wall its a lighter color but if I put it against the white color card its a darker color. Like the difference in nitrate is 40-80 and 160. I don't know which one is real to go off of. Overall lighting is great in the room but there is a definite difference. Going to youtube some API kits and see how others are using it. I might run up town after work and get the Tetra 6-1 strips, I'm told those are at least a bit more accurate than the API strips. Its just something to try, not going to swear on it or anything.

Probably going to do another water change tonight...

 

At one point you said you added the last of your ammonia. Have you gotten more since then? This cycle needs a steady supply of ammonia to complete the process.

When I run my tests I set them in my kitchen window. Like you the color looks diffent to me in different light. I don't know it for a fact but I think natural light will work best. By setting them in the window they get the same type of light each time. Some folks say they put the vial over the color strip and the color that shows through the least is the number. I tried that and all colors showed through equally.

You said you have a Betta in a smaller tank and you are seeing 0, 0, and low nitrates. What is different between that tank and this one? Off the top of my head the main thing I see as different is the fish is adding a steady supply of ammonia. Is there any other differences? other than size of course.

when doing a fish in cycle the fish are constantly adding ammonia. In a fishless cycle we have to add a constant supply of ammonia.