Sorting Out Cherry Shrimp And Seed Shrimp

I have a cycled 10 gallon with a 20 gallon sponge filter that I set up at my office. It's planted and has some Malaysian trumpet snails and 2 mystery snails. The water at my office is alkaline with a pH that stabilizes in my tank at 7.8. I've also been using Wonder Shells to help with the snails and shrimp. This keeps my water pretty hard with a GH 11-16, and my KH runs from 4-6.

I recently purchased about 20 cherry shrimp who have been doing really well so far. However, prior to them, I had a small colony of seed shrimp. Now that I'm feeding the cherry shrimp (Bacter AE, Shrimp Dinner, and Mineral Junkie), I've noticed an explosion in the seed shrimp. I try to suction them out when I do water changes, but they mostly just hide in the substrate when I do that. I know they're pretty much harmless and a sign of a healthy aquarium, but their numbers are becoming unsightly. I was wondering about using a few fish to keep their numbers down, but I don't want to stifle my cherry shrimp colony. I know Otos are pretty much the only truly shrimp-safe fish, but there are others that are less aggressive and won't decimate the population. I have a pretty good sized piece of cholla wood in the tank along with moderate amounts of plants to provide plenty of hiding space.

Anyway, I've heard that chilI rasboras are a pretty safe option, but they like soft, acidic water, so I'm not sure they fit my water. Since it's at my office, and I won't be able to be there all the time, I don't to do too much water parameter manipulation (other than the Wonder Shells). Other people have suggested white clouds, but I tried some cherry shrimp in my 55 gallon at one point that had white clouds and glowlight tetras, and they killed all the smaller adults and the juveniles. I only have one larger female left from an initial population of 12, despite having a large java moss tree for them to hide in. I've also thought about getting a school of male Endlers, but I've heard bad stories about them too.

So, any suggestions on the seed shrimp other than reducing feeding? If you were going to add fish, would you wait until after the cherry shrimp start to breed? Should I just ignore the seed shrimp and let them be a part of my little aquarium?

 

Heterandria formosa. Keep a bunch of moss for the baby shrimp and they should love the seed shrimp. I keep mine with shrimp, and while the shrimp colony growth is slower, they still reproduce successfully

 

I’ve read that they can team up on even adult shrimp and kill them as invertebrates are their natural food. If I did them, would you wait until I have a few rounds of baby shrimp before introducing?

 

I'd not do anything except reduce food, these hatches come and go through their own cycle it's all part of having a tank with no predators

 

One other thought. My 55 gallon has some mollies. I've got a little one who is about 2.5 weeks old. I could always move it over to the shrimp tank temporarily. It's not big enough to get the adult seed shrimp yet, but it could definitely get the babies. It could be a temporary solution that I bring fry from the big tank to the shrimp tank until they're big enough to go back. The only downside is netting and transporting little fry to my office and back is sure to stress them a little. I'd also have to start using more than just shrimp food in my office tank. What's the youngest you would transplant a small fry? I have a shrimp net, so that would make it easier... if I can catch the fry.

 

Unless you are going to worry about every single hatchling Cherry surviving...which is probably not realistic...then most small fish will be suitable if the shrimp have a good amount of Java Moss for cover. I have thriving colonies of RCS in many tanks with assorted fish species which probably catch some young, but the populations of shrimp keep growing nonetheless.

I have Cherries in a tank of Heterandria, and the moss growth is still quite sparse compared to most of my tanks. The shrimp are reproducing nicely. I've never seen the fish "team up" to go on a killing spree...sounds a bit far-fetched.

 

Right, I don't mind losing some. I just was worried that if I introduced them before the shrimp had started breeding that it would be too soon. I've only had them 2 weeks, so I'm not worried about the lack of breeding yet.

 

Well, consider this: I bought 3 RCS maybe 18 months ago and introduced them to a 29 gallon tank housing a Musk Turtle and about a half-dozen adult Medakas, along with a luxurious growth of Java Moss (only plant the turtle wouldn't eat). Never saw the shrimp again for several weeks and was very happy when they finally emerged into view.

Weeks later while doing a water change I realized the tank was crawling with shrimplets. By now the Medakas had been removed and replaced with a few feeder Guppies. Both Guppies and RCS bred like rabbits in a tank with a turtle, just about the messiest heaviest-bioload critter imaginable. I did massive frequent water changes that didn't phase the shrimp a bit, simply because the tank water never had a chance to become significantly altered from its original chemistry.

Today, I have shrimp in several tanks, living successfully with plenty of fish in the 3-inch size range. I'm sure tons get eaten; enough make it to increase the population sufficiently that I have removed and traded hundreds at a time on several occasions. All descended from the original trio; new blood is definitely needed, along with culling to remove the large numbers of brownish wild-types that appear. I just haven't bothered.

I'm sure that if I start taking an active interest in them...you know, stuff like feeding them, or fretting about water chemistry, or trying to "improve" the bloodlines...there will probably be a massive die-off.

 

I guess I wouldn't be so skittish if I wouldn't have had a bad experience with my first batch. I have a 55 gallon community tank with glowlight tetras, white clouds, and mollies (I know those don't really go together but that's another story). The tank was well planted, and I had a huge driftwood java moss tree in the middle of it. I got about 12 cherry shrimp about 6 months ago and released them into the tree. Within about 5 minutes I saw at least 3 almost adult shrimp get torn up by the glowlights, which I'd previously read were docile and fairly shrimp friendly. 6 months later I only have 1 left who pretty much just hangs out in the tree all day. I only see her since her bright red shell contrasts to the green of the moss. I'd love to catch her and put her in the 10 gallon tank at my office, but catching her without catching a fish has proved nigh impossible. So with this batch, I've tried to be as cautious as possible. Thank you all for the insight thus far though.

Any thoughts on Endlers? I've seen a lot of people say they do well with those with only minor shrimplet loss. I was thinking of getting several males... don't want to deal with fish babies too. The Least Killifish are smaller and reproduce at a slower rate, but I keep reading that they're more aggressive and can team up to kill adult shrimp. They're not as pretty as Endlers though. ChilI Rasboras would be better for the shrimp, but my hard water (GH: 11-16) and higher pH (7.8) seem to be incompatible with them.

 

The worst scenario I could find was one where the adult Heterandria hunted down baby shrimp in a tank with sparse cover, but admittedly I didn't look too hard. These are tiny fish, with mouths that are small even in relation to their size.

I'd love to read more on this purported cooperative big-game hunting behaviour; do you recall where you saw the account?

 

What are seed shrimp?

 

Seed shrimp on my leaf and one next to a new born shrimp

 

Thanks for the picture but I am still at a loss as to what they are? Where do they come from?

 

The minute you put live plants in a tank the chances are they are there eggs can lay dormant for months and when the times right they will hatch,unlike a fish tank where they get eaten shrimp don't pray on them and this is why you see them, even small fish may not bother them

 

Ok so they are a hitchhiker and from what I’ve read are a somewhat welcome thing in a tank.

 

They’re welcome in that they are harmless and are good at cleanup. My shrimp and snails that have died have been eaten within hours, and they also eat dead plant leaves. They also are kind of like the canaries of fish tanks. If they’re there, your water quality is likely pretty good. The problem is that they eat the same stuff as my shrimp, and feeding the shrimp has turned into a couple hundred seed shrimp everywhere. They swarm any food I put in and are all over the glass. It looks like I’ve got a major pest problem. I don’t mind a few remaining, but I want their population in check.

 

I have never heard of them before...

 

They’re also known as ostracods. You don’t see them in fish tanks because they don’t like a current and fish eat them. However, they’re fairly common in planted invertebrate only tanks.

 

Cory breeds mollies and guppies in the same tanks that he breeds cherry shrimp, and he has very consistent success. With guppies the water parameters and temperature can be suitable to both them and the shrimp, and they're not as big or aggressive as a lot of Tetra species.

 

One headache with the seed shrimp is that they swarm any food I put in the tank. The shrimp can scatter them away, but my food goes straight to the ostracods.

 

Get some airline tubing and suck them up when they do this. Itll take a bit but that'll slowly lower their population

 

I find my little critters stay on the glass algae can't say ive ever seen them attack shrimp food nevertheless they will go through their cycle and disappear for a while

 

Get some airline tubing and suck them up when they do this. Itll take a bit but that'll slowly lower their population

I usually suck them out when I do water changes, but good call on the airline tubing so I can be a little more aggressive and less likely to suck up other things with it. I suctioned out at least 150 of them today, and the tank still looks full of them. They go underground when they see me coming now, so it's tough to get them all. I'm hoping my incoming Endler's are going to decimate them.

So here's my update: Almost everyone I've spoken too claim that these guys are completely harmless and a sign of a healthy tank. Well, I'm going to disagree to a certain extent. My 10 gallon had several hundred of these suckers. I started with 24 cherry shrimp about a month ago and am now down to 5. Any time I tried to feed the shrimp, the ostracods would swarm it. The cherry shrimp could push them out of the way, but usually only a couple would do that. I tried using Bacter AE, but the ostracods ate the biofilm too. My theory is that my shrimp didn't get enough food. The problem was that the more food I put in, the more ostracods I got... but if I put in less, the shrimp didn't get enough. I even was dosing Bacter AE at the manufacturer level briefly, which most people say is way too much, but biofilm never became visible as the creatures in the tank ate it as fast as I put it in. I watched one shrimp pass away today, and the ostracods had completely reduced it to only a shell within 30 minutes. Water parameters have always been zero ammonia, zero nitrite, 5 nitrate, 4 KH, 11-15 GH (maintained with Wonder Shell).

Anyway, that's my theory. Anyone have another? My shrimp never even bred and my supplier said that ostracods had been known to eat shrimp eggs in his tanks. So, I bought some Endler's Livebearers to try to control the seed shrimp. Unfortunately, they are still juveniles so are too small to eat the adult seed shrimp. I'm hoping that they'll at least eat all the babies so their population dies out and then will eat adults when they get bigger. Hopefully I can save these final 5 and there's at least one male left (most remaining look female) to get them breeding. If not, once the seed shrimp are controlled I'll add some more shrimp. This is my second likely failure with shrimp, and it's frustrating... but I've learned something both times.

 

HI drewbacca you certainly have a bug problem and if a shrimp dies they will swam and eat it, it's what they do, the only time they will eat shrimp eggs is if she drops them I don't know of anyone who as had an attack on a live shrimp if that's what the lfs is saying, saying that anything's possible, to get rid of these once and for all you must stop feeding, their numbers are only that high because they are thriving on food in the tank,your shrimp won't starve, biofilm won't become visible but if you put you finger on the inside of the glass and its slippery that's biofilm, biofilm is on every surface in your tank and is continuously reproducing so I don't think that's a problem, my tanks get hatches of these now and then and they go through a cycle and die. Your water perameters are fine, although they both eat the same sort of things I do wonder if there was another reason overlooked as to why you lost shrimp and I mean that in a nice way and not a criticism.

 

Right. I guess one issue I have with not feeding is that my most recent die off from 11 to 5 came when I was gone for the weekend and didn’t feed from Thursday until Monday. I know shrimp can go that long, but if I was worried they were starving, that could back up that fear. I’m sucking about 40-50 ostracods a day out with airline tubing, and once my Endler’s get a little bigger they should help out a little more. Hopefully I’ll have some shrimp left, but if not I can try again or just make it an Endler-only tank.

 

Lack of feeding the shrimp for 4 day should not have caused you any problems. I agree with richie.p could there be something we are overlooking? Over feeding maybe? I was ignorant to ostracods until you posted this thread, so I am by no means an expert. My experience has proven that most aquatic life that just appears on its own comes from a reason. Ostracods are maybe an exception IDK.

 

Your doing your best get these little critters under control and let's take it from there your remaining shrimp should get the colony going, lots only feed once a week but having these in there as certainly not helped you, not feeding for 4 days should not be a problem to shrimp

 

I actually don't mind the cleanup of dead plants and critters. If they didn't swarm the food I put in and crowd out the cherry shrimp, I wouldn't mind them much at all. Regardless, my situation has led me to discover Endlers, which I've kinda fallen in love with so far. If I can get the shrimp to recover in population, I could have a really cool, colorful aquarium at my office to retreat to when I get breaks.

 

what your experiencing is a learning curve for a lot of us

 

Right, I had no idea how different keeping shrimp was than fish. While there are a lot of the same principles, there are a lot of small differences that can make a big difference.

 

shrimp are an all new ball game, just as easy to keep but extra tests needed for their survival, your GH will tell you if the shrimp are safe for moulting, they need slightly different temperature, PH above 7 for cherries, small water changes, don't add water to fast, all these little things make for a food shrimp tank

 

One other thought. My 55 gallon has some mollies. I've got a little one who is about 2.5 weeks old. I could always move it over to the shrimp tank temporarily. It's not big enough to get the adult seed shrimp yet, but it could definitely get the babies. It could be a temporary solution that I bring fry from the big tank to the shrimp tank until they're big enough to go back. The only downside is netting and transporting little fry to my office and back is sure to stress them a little. I'd also have to start using more than just shrimp food in my office tank. What's the youngest you would transplant a small fry? I have a shrimp net, so that would make it easier... if I can catch the fry.

Whoa on the mollies! I'm new to cherry shrimp and thought I'd have no issues with "small" fish being in with them. um, not.
They're okay with some molly fry growing out but...
I moved a dalmation molly from the pond to the shrimp enclosure, bc it was getting cold outside. The FIRST thing that stinker did was suck up an innocent little shrimp. He went straight to Fish Jail confinement until I can figure out what to do with him.
Strangely enough there are three other mollies in there that don't ever mess with the shrimp (2 pandas I've raised since birth and a balloon molly). The guppy I moved in at the same time didn't mess with them either, but HE was too busy chasing the mollies for some tail.
I thought they would have been okay as mollies have relatively small mouths, but I SAW him do it, so I've no excuse to be ignorant of the danger now.
I had gotten about 60 cherry shrimp I won from an ebay auction that are still growing out, so they're not full size yet, but when/IF they have babies, I'm going to have to move out all the fish, but the smallest fry to keep them safe.
I hope this helps.

 

Actually, my mollies have never had problems with the cherry shrimp. My glowlight tetras, which are supposed to be peaceful, have been vicious. I was actually planning on just bringing molly fry over temporarily until they we a little bigger. In the end I got Endler’s Livebearers, which are still too small to eat the seed shrimp, but they do get the babies, so I’m assuming they will slowly die out. For now I’m just keeping the mollies in my larger tank without the seed shrimp. They swim freely with the cherry and amano shrimp I have in there though.

 

In an ideal world it should be shrimp only tank but it's not so we have to advise best we can and not criticise those who do, lots of larger fish will on occasions leave them alone but will start to pick off your babies then may get a liking for bigger shrimp but try and keep your fish well fed but not over fed dose help but always watch the shrimp for dwindling numbers and if they start to hide a lot means someone is on the prowl and my need taking out

 

A few days ago, I saw one of my adult shrimp "pick" up a seed shrimp that happen to swim below it. The shrimp did a "bite" on it and didn't let go of the seed shrimp for 2-3sec than the shrimp let go of it. The seed shrimp just drop dead and lay there motionless!! I didn't know cherry shrimp can "kill" seed shrimp or this is just 1 unfortunate case for the seed shrimp.

 

Just unfortunate I'd say shrimp by nature are not aggressive its possible the seed shrimp was on its last legs giving the shrimp an opportunity but generally they won't hunt or take live food, I find them jump on snails, ammanos, and my African vampire and pick food off them but it's not an attack on them

 

I have male yellow tiger endlers with my cherry shrimp. As I'm very new to shrimp, all my shrimp are newly purchased (early Oct) juveniles. I even received a really small one that wasn't colored when it arrived. My endlers can't even fit the HikarI micro pellets into their mouths sometimes so needless to say they haven't harmed the shrimp. They do get into the shrimp's feed fish with the shrimp and eat their food though. I don't have any experience with seed shrimp but my endlers will eat detritus worms if I skip their feeding.