Sooo much poop!!! Question

  1. Geeforce Initiate Member

    Hi Everyone!!

    I've cleaned my tank this past Sunday morning.
    I use 2 vacuums, one small one for all the hard to get to spots in the tank, and one big one to clean the rest and to do the water change with.
    Monday night I came home checked on the fish and then.....:eek: there's so much poop!!??

    I've got a 180L tank and about 41 fish in:

    7 neons, 7 Rumy noses, 2 Electric Blue Rams, 2 Rainbow Neons, 2 Mini Gourami's, 2 Pleco's, 2 Loaches, 6 Guppies,
    4 Bumble bee gobies, 2 Ruby barbs, 2 Zebra's, 3 Fork tail rainbows.
    And it's all real plants.

    Maybe overcrowding?
    Anyway my question is, what can I do to get the poop to reach the filter more so that it can get sucked up, or is there something else I need/can do?
    I've seen that even the poop right under the filter sits on the gravel.

    I've got a Sun Sun HW402b external pump.

    Thanx!!! :;hf
     
  2. Coradee Moderator Moderator Member

    Plecs are poop machines, what kind do you have? & you do seem to have a lot of fish for the size of tank.
    Try increasing the flow & alter the direction so it pushes any dirt towards the intake
     

  3. Geeforce Initiate Member

    I'm not sure exactly what kind, but I know according to the petshop these type of plecs do not grow that much as other.

    I saw like a water pump that can be stuck to the tank on the inside that creates waves, could this work?

    Thanx!!
     
  4. Harlebleondora Well Known Member Member

    I can't see how a powerhead would help out with the problem. I think the best way to fix it is doing your water changes more often. I also see you do not know the nitrogen cycle... Is this outdated information?
     

  5. Geeforce Initiate Member

    I think it's a bit dated as I am familiar with the cycle. Doing more water changes as I am now will be difficult because of working hours, that's why I'm looking for a solution that can more or less take care of the problem by itself. But even if I could do water changes more than once a week, all that poop was there the day right after I did a water change?

    I think the powerhead pump could work if it's set more lower in the tank? Or maybe a different filter intake could do the trick?
     
  6. Dolfan Fishlore VIP Member

    Some scavengers would help you out like snails and maybe some ghost shrimp. They will eat that poop and break it down further so the plants and/or filter can remove it. The loaches and other fish may eat the snails and possibly the ghost shrimp, but if you have a lot of places to hide like plants and d├ęcor they some should survive. Try some Malaysian Trumpet Snails and some ghost shrimp.

    As for a powerhead, it may help to stir up the bottom, but would also create a strong flow along the bottom that some or all of your bottom dwelling fish may or may not like.
     
  7. Geeforce Initiate Member

    Yeah would love some shrimp but the petshop said my current fish will eat them. I could get bigger ones but they climb out, and won't snails eat the plants?

    I thought the pump could be an issue, but this much poop is just way too much!!Is 41 fish really too much, how much should I have +/- in a 180L tank?

    Thanx for all the help so far!!!
     

  8. Mattfinn Member Member

    Goin by rule of thumb 1" of fish per gallon. You have about 47gallons minus 2-4gallons for decor and substrate leaving you with 45-43 gallons, yes I think you're overstocked but that's what I go off.
    I agree with the snails, I've tried shrimp and they got torn to pieces by my cherry barbs in a few days In a decently planted tank with lots of hiding places. Nerites won't eat plants and some mystery snails, you get lucky with them guys they either do or don't.
    Just my experience really.


    Feeling fishy
     
  9. renthus Well Known Member Member

    Oh dear, we've got a lot of work to do.

    7 neons - fine
    7 Rumy noses - fine
    2 Electric Blue Rams - fine
    2 Rainbow Neons - needs a school
    2 Mini Gourami's - that's not a thing. I assume you mean dwarf gourami? If so, fine.
    2 Pleco's - Oh dear, what kind?
    2 loaches - again, what kind?
    6 guppies - fine
    4 Bumble bee gobies - imo these need brackish but whatever
    2 Ruby barbs - needs a school
    2 Zebra's - zebra danio? needs a school
    3 Fork tail rainbows - needs a school

    You're incredibly overstocked, which isn't disastrous in and of itself, but you're overstocked with fish that need their school (shoal) sizes increased, and I have a nasty feeling about the loaches and plecos. Rehome everything that I didn't label as "fine" and you'll be at about 85% stocking. If the loaches and plecos aren't what I suspect they are, you can keep them, too, though I'd be mindful of them with the bumblebee gobies.

    I don't suppose your loach looks like this?
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Chromobotia_macracanthus.jpg

    Also, ignore the whole inch per gallon thing. That's outdated and leads to more harm than it prevents.
     
  10. Geeforce Initiate Member

    Thanx for the info, and I had a funny feeling that might be to problem, over stocking.
    Photo 2014-06-27, 5 37 52 PM.jpg I
    Here is what my two loaches look like.
    Yeah, after buying the fish a read that they prefer a school, and I know one should read up on them before buying, but you know how it is sometimes, you go to the petshop for a heater or whatever and you walk out with two bags of fish :eek:

    I actually tried to give my zebras back, there were 4 but I couldn't catch the rest too fast.
    I have a spare tank, but setting it up will be costly as it's also a big tank, not exactly sure how much liters though.

    Yeah, dwarf gourami's.
    Plecos I'm also not a 100% sure, but according to the petshop they won't grow as big as the other types. One of the reasons I gave my last pleco back because of the growth concern.

    How does one know when is too much and when it's fine?
    It's sometimes difficult, as the tank does not look over crowded now, but the amount of poop says otherwise.

    Thanx again!!
     

  11. renthus Well Known Member Member

    Ah, those are hillstream loaches. I've always sorta wanted one. They come from fast-moving streams, so they like a strong current in their tank. Dunno if you've got that. Your pleco is *probably* either a clown pleco or a bristlenose.

    Personally I keep my main tank at stocking levels that most people would probably cringe at, but you really need to ask yourself a few questions:

    - How's the overall bioload looking? This is the easy part. Obviously if you have a whole lot of big fish and you see a lot of poop then there's probably a really high bioload, and that's not good.

    - What regions of the tank are these fish inhabiting? For instance, I consider otos to be effectively irrelevant to stocking because they don't really inhabit the water column, but rather spend their time sucked onto surfaces like the glass and plants. That, and their bioload is negligible. If you have a ton of bottom feeders, you'll have a problem with them taking up each others space, whereas if you spread your stock out across various regions (bottomfeeders, surface dwellers, etc) then you're less likely to have problems.

    - Are these fish compatible in the first place? Often fish will have different temperature, hardness, or ph requirements. The bumblebee gobies I really do believe need low-end brackish, but there's a lot of disagreement on the subject.

    - How's aggression going to factor in? If you're heavily stocked and there aren't many hiding spots to go around, or there are never any low-activity regions in the tank, your fish can't really escape aggression, and it's likely to escalate. Keep an eye out for that with the DGs and the rams, by the way.

    - Ultimately, are your fish in constant contact with each other? If your tank looks really busy, and there aren't any dull regions, you're probably overstocked. What you're really going for is "active, not crowded"


    Note that most of this is just my own personal system, people may (and in fact are likely to) disagree.
     
  12. Geeforce Initiate Member

    Thank you very much for that detailed explanation, and it makes a 100% sense.
    I wouldn't say that fish are in each other's way the whole time. I would say my tank is busy, not just active. The fish are doing really well and they seem to be happy, but I just get that annoy-ens that I know it's over stocked. And the poop is ugly!!

    Yeah, i love those loaches, and they're insanely fast!!

    I really feel like starting over with this tank, as this was my first tank ever and I went from internal filters to an external UV filter, from plastic plants to real ones, normal pebbles to sand so to speak. So the tank has never really gone through a planning process.

    If I look at tanks on the internet, and yes I know those people are in the hobby for years, but theirs looks soooo nice :;perfect, and mine well seems kinda dull and with no direction or theme and full of poop!!
     
  13. renthus Well Known Member Member

    Welcome to the club. Prepare your wallet for sacrifice.

    Also note that the big problem isn't so much that it's irreparably overstocked right now, but rather that if you boost the schools to proper sizes (6+ each for the ones I marked a few posts ago) you'll be obscenely overstocked.
     
  14. Geeforce Initiate Member

    Photo 2014-07-09, 6 14 59 PM.jpg Photo 2014-07-09, 6 13 27 PM.jpg

    Here's some pics of my tank, also added a pic of the pleco's.
    I'm really starting to think of a reboot, but not sure where to begin or how to tackle it. Also don't want to repeat old mistakes.

    Are moonlights bad for plants etc, or can it be used? How much lighting should be used?
    I'm thinking of starting up the other tank which is open on top, any thoughts on the lighting I can use for that? And substrate, all the same or are there any recommendations?
    Now is the time to convince me.....:;swls

    Thanx again!!!
     
  15. bescher Member Member

    I would think about another filter, maybe aquaclear 70 or a Fluval C4 off the top of my head and that would give extra filtration and maybe more maintenance on the filter(all of it) I think what you have is cannister. But clean everything when you do your water changes ( except of course your biomedia. That you can rinse in your aquarium water.
    People go back and forth about cleaning their mechanical filter in tap water or aquarium water. I have read several books where they recommend tap water when doing a water change. Seachem matrix is biomedia so that is good stuff. Keep it and rinse it out in aquarium water. You could also keep some aquarium water in a smaller tank or bucket and keep matrix in there as well but in all honesty I don't see how carbon would affect it.
     
  16. TKDennison Member Member

    My pleco had to go because of the sheer volume of poop he generated. He was replaced with 12 mystery snails (coolest creatures alive) and 4 (will be 8) trilineatus corys.

    I'm much happier with the bio load now


    Sent from my iPhone using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum
     
  17. Geeforce Initiate Member

    Thanx!!

    Ok, so new findings. I've turned my pump outlet tube so that the water blows out more towards the surface of the water against the back glass, previously it was set to blow out more down also set against the back of the tank. I've done this just for oxygen purposes.

    Now all of a sudden the poop seems to be way less??? :confused:
    My theory is that the water was blowing all the poop to the front of the tank.

    Anyway, I'm way happier now with everything, and the water is back to being crystal clear again!!
    But that's my UV hard at work :;banaman

    Thanx for all the help!!