Something crazy happening with cycling

So I posted a little while ago seeking second opinions about my equipment before setting up my 10 gallon and starting to cycle. I got some Tetra SafeStart, 6 neons, and 5 ottos, some ghost shrimp, 3 Anubias plants, and 2 Amazon Swords, to help cycle the tank. I start with 3 Neons and 2 Ottos, and gradually add more over the days following adding the SafeStart until I have most of the fish in the tank.

Being paranoid I tested the water several times a day for the first few days. At the end of day 1, I had around .25 or less ammonia 0 nitrite and ~5 nitrate. Next morning, no change or less ammonia, no change in nitrites, and a little bit higher than 5 nitrate. Long story short at the end of the last day I tested, 3 days and some hours after adding first fish and SafeStart, I have 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrites, and slightly more than 20 Nitrates. This eases my paranoia, and I decide to wait a few days before testing again so as to follow the instructions on this forum in the Q&A concerning SafeStart. I also go to my LFS and purchase the first of my Dwarf Puffers (I wanted to buy 2, but they don't keep them stocked often so I just took the one they had), add her to the tank (thinking it was cycled, I had the bacterial bloom cloud and everything), and remove all the Neons. In the tank now is 1 Dwarf Puffer, 5 Ottos, the same plants above, and ~ 6 Ghost Shrimp. At this point I also realize there probably isn't too much for my Otto's to eat since there isn't much algae or anything so I parboil a slice of zucchinI and throw it in there. They destroyed it, and it only lasted about two days. I fed the neons flakes, and the puffer frozen bloodworms.

On Wednesday, my LFS called me and told me they got one other Dwarf Puffer in stock, and that for some reason it was my only day to go get it otherwise they wouldn't have any again for a while, so I go get the second one and put him in as well. Yesterday, it's been a full week since adding the SafeStart, so I decide to test, and to my horror, my ammonia is >4 but <8, I'd say closer to 4, there are 0 nitrites, and 0 or barely more than 0 nitrates. I have no idea what has happened, or how my Nitrates and ammonia can become polar opposites so quickly when things appeared to be going well. Freaking out, I do a 80% water change, test again immediately, and Ammonia is barely measurable and other two are 0, 0, Test again at night, and Ammonia is about the same >0 but <.25, nitrites still at 0, but ~6 or 7 nitrates, test again this morning, and Ammonia is unchanged, Nitrites are unchanged, but nitrates have gone back down to barely measurable. Someone please help, what is happening, and what can I do to protect my fish and make sure this doesn't mess them up. On a side note, something I noticed is out of the 12 or so tests I've done over the past week, I've never had a positive reading for nitrites, just ammonia and nitrates. Is this significant?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that after doing the water change I added another bottle of SafeStart

 

Testing will give false results for the first 2 weeks after using tss. at least that's my understanding.

 

If you do not use SafeStart exactly as your supposed to, you will get unperdicable results. When using safeStart you are supposed to put a couple of fish and a bottle of safestart in at the same time, then wait 14 days. You very well may have overloaded the bacteria by continually adding fish before the 14 days had gone by.

Fishkeeping requires patience for the best results.

 

Testing will give false results for the first 2 weeks after using tss. at least that's my understanding.

I really hope this is the case and that overloading the tank isn't . In the Q&A they said it was fine to add a full stock, and might actually be wiser in some situations...

 

They meant all at once I think

 

Testing will give false results for the first 2 weeks after using tss. at least that's my understanding.

I really hope this is the case and that overloading the tank isn't . In the Q&A they said it was fine to add a full stock, and might actually be wiser in some situations...

The test results are correct when using SafeStart. There usually is a temporary rise in ammonia until the bacteria "wakes up & settles in". Tetra claims that the ammonia level is low enough and of a short enough duration that it will not harm the fish. I also think (but this is not based on anything from Tetra, but just my thinking) that since the bacteria in a bottle of SafeStart is in a stabilized ammonia solution (what ever that is), that some of the ammonia rise may be from that.

And as mentioned, in the Q&A they are speaking of using SafeStart with an African Cichlkid tank where you need to fully stock all at once. But under normal conditions you want to just put 1-2 inches of fish per 10 gallons and do nothing but feed the fish for 14 days.

 

So what course of action would you all recommend? Should I just leave it be for 2 weeks, or should I test regularly and do partial water changes until everything stabilizes, even if that means doing it every other day?

 

At this point I would just do daily partial water changes, (which shouldn't be too troublesome with a 10 gallon tank) with Prime until the tank cycles. Hopefully some of the SafeStart bacteria got a foothold in your filter and is multiping as you read this meaning it will not take to much time to finish cycling.

I am a little concerned about you stocking. I'm not sure about the compatabilty of the puffers and I think you have too many fish in a 10 gallon. Many people claim that neons should have 20 gallons, but I've never kept them, so I really do not know if a 10 is large enough. Also, Oto's are pretty sensitive fish and it is always best to put them in a tank that has already been cycled, Hopefully my concerns are for naught and eveything will work out for you.

 

Thanks for the information and concerns.

As stated above there are no more neons in the tank, they were simply to help with cycling while I was waiting for my LFS to get the puffers in stock, and to make sure the SafeStart had something to feed on. The neons have been transferred to a friend's 40 gallon. The current stock in my tank is 5 ottos, 2 Dwarf Puffers, and I purchased 7 Ghost shrimp (unsure how many are left). As for the sensitivity of the Ottos, I only had 2 while the tank was cycling, and added the rest after I thought it was finished. I was getting 0/0/~20 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, so I thought it had cycled when I replaced the neons with the puffers and added the other Ottos, and then a few days later the Ammonia was very high out of nowhere and the nitrate had dropped, hence me panic water changing, and posting here.

I've read 5 Gallons per puffer, and a few Ottos are fine from here and dwarf puffer. The Ghost shrimp are just to help with cleanup and become eventual snacks. I'll pick up some prime today, and continue doing my daily partial water changes. I've been doing about 20%, is that ok? Too much or too little? Should I look at relocating some of the Ottos?

I would also like to add that despite the ammonia being high (over 4ppm the day I changed water, no idea how long it was that high because I didn't test it for 3 or 4 days prior to the water change), I have had no casualties and none of my fish were showing signs of stress, and the sudden drop in nitrate also confused me, so that's why I'm so unsure about whether the tank was cycled or what. I hope I don't have defective testing kit or something.

 

Have you tested your water supply before adding to the tank?
I'm having nitrate issues with in one of my tanks and it was suggested to me to check my water supply so I know what's going into the tank.

 

Yes I did, it was 0/0/0, just tested again the day I did a water change to be sure, and got same results.

 

I was getting 0/0/~20 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, so I thought it had cycled when I replaced the neons with the puffers and added the other Ottos, and then a few days later the Ammonia was very high out of nowhere and the nitrate had dropped, hence me panic water changing, and posting here.

I'll pick up some prime today, and continue doing my daily partial water changes. I've been doing about 20%, is that ok? Too much or too little? Should I look at relocating some of the Ottos?

I would also like to add that despite the ammonia being high (over 4ppm the day I changed water, no idea how long it was that high because I didn't test it for 3 or 4 days prior to the water change), I have had no casualties and none of my fish were showing signs of stress, and the sudden drop in nitrate also confused me, so that's why I'm so unsure about whether the tank was cycled or what. I hope I don't have defective testing kit or something.

There are really only two way to bet rid of nitrates. One is thru partial water changes and the other is thru plant uptake. But I don't think you have anywhere enough plants to absorb 20ppm of nitrate. So I would suspect if you hadn't done any water changes that you somehow got a bad rest result. So basically, if you had lost your cycle, the nitrates would have stayed the same, since what's done is done in that repect.

As far as the amount of water you should change:

While cycling with fish: you want to change enough water so that the ammonia/nitrite levels do not go higher in a 24 hour period than the amount of ammonia/nitrite that Prime can fully detox. (I don't know off the top of my head how many ppm of ammonia/nitrite Prime can detox, so I'll leave that as homework for you.

One cycling is complete: You want to do a large enough partial water change each week so that nitrates stay below 20ppm by the end of the week. So for example if your nitrates are increasing by 10ppm over the course of a week, you want to do a large enough water change to get nitrates down to 10ppm or below.

4ppm is very high for your ammonia level and it would definitley stress your fish. Many time when you haven't been keeping fish for long, you don't realize that they are behaving oddly, because you have had them long enough to know what normal behavior is. I'm also really suprised that your Otos' survived levels that high. So that leads me to wonder what your pH level is. At a pH under 7.0 ammonia starts turning into ammonium. Ammonium is much, much less toxic to fish than ammona, so that could explain why your fish survived such high levels (and maybe not looking stressed). The downside to low pH is that it takes a lot longer to cycle a tank with ammonium since it is not as good of a food source for the bacteria.

Also, it is possible that your tank was cycled, but you had a pH crash. If that were the case since the ammonia would have changed into ammonium, the bacteria would then starve off leaving you uncycled. I had this very thing happen to me recently in a tank that was cycled for almost 5 years.

 

The nitrite and nitrate readings are what are especially puzzling to me. The nitrates tested higher and higher on a daily or even hourly basis, I even had my GF here every time I tested to get second opinion and make sure I wasn't going color blind or anything. I'm positive it was around 20ppm on way more than 1 test, and it was surely above 0 for several days, which, after not testing for several days it barely showed 5, which is still the case today. It's barely noticeably above yellow, just a very slight orange tinge. I also just can't figure out why I've never tested positive for nitrites, but have consistently had nitrate readings.

I agree 100% though, I don't think my 5 plants have nearly the capacity to absorb that much nitrate in 3 days and a few hours, especially if it's constantly being produced.

As far as Prime it says 5mL per 50g, which I assume breaks down to 1mL per 10g, and states that using this rule it will detox 1mg/L of Ammonia per 1mL of Prime.

I did a test last night before a partial water change, got my Prime as well. I was testing 0.5ppm Ammonia = .5mg/L according to my test kits manual, and 0 nitrites, and I guess 5ppm nitrates, barely orange(will have photo at bottom of post of what I mean). I used 2mL of Prime into my ~ 3 Gallon water change, which should have been more than enough to detox the water fully. Tested again afterwards and was getting much lower Ammonia, barely a green tint, so for simplicity sake we'll say 0.25ppm, and no change in the other two. I also tested my pH, it was high (I think at around 7.4-7.6).

Tested again this afternoon to see how things were going, and Ammonia was at .5ppm, nitrites still at 0, and nitrates still barely an orange so I guess 5ppm. This time I took photos though, so that I can get more opinion than just mine and my GF's, especially yours. Doing the water changes is no big deal, but I really want to get to the bottom of this, because it really doesn't make any sense to me as to how it happened.

Thank you so much for all your time and help, album of photos below.

View of all the tests, then closeups, my test kit bottles. The ammonia looks like it might actually be closer to .25 this afternoon, unsure, that's why I'm posting.

 

Well I'm not going to even look at your photos because I am color blind! So the odds of me reading your levels are iffy at best.

I did want to mention a couple of things though. Prime will cause a false positive for ammonia (with the API Liquid test kit) for 24 hours after adding it to your tank, so don't be alarmed. Also, the API nitrate test kit can be a little tricky. Bottle #2 contains crystals suspended in liquid. But the crystals tend to clump together at the bottom of the bottle. If you don't really shake and pound the bottle, the crystals do not break up and resuspend, which will lead to incorrect test results.

I do want to mention also that while not the norm, it is not unheard of to not see a nitrite spike (especially when using SafeStart). So if your ammonia goes down to and stays at zero and nitrates start to rise, it would indicate that you have indeed cycled.

 

I always shake the nitrate bottle no 2 for a good minute before adding it to tube and then shake the tube for a minute or so, I'll just keep testing and changing water and update in a while I suppose

 

I actually pound bottle #2 against the palm of my hand to ensure the crystals get broken up and resuspended.

 

Got some good news I think, did a 50% water change yesterday afternoon, and tonight, approx 30 hours later, I'm getting 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and around 5 nitrates, so I think I may actually be close to stabilizing whatever problem I was having/completing the cycle.

 

That is good news. While it may be too soon to say for sure,it does appears you may be cycled.