some help needed to help decide what is wrong.

  1. pearlypops Member Member

    Hi all, I have decided that I need help to decided what is wrong in my tank, for the last few months Ive seen things that have made me notice that things arnt quite right. Ive had a few fish die, not much to go by on wwhat they actaully died of, but they all vary, they include before dying - staying near the top of the tank, then just before dying staying close to the floor, ive had a fish that seem to have problems swimmin to the top before dying. And the obvious prroblem I currently have in the tank is most fish flashing against the gravel/ornimnets, I have one neon tetra that looks like it has greyish patches over its body and eyes look rather swollen, he has taken himself away from the other fish, and has a tiny white cottony growth on his side which came today. I just cant determind what is going on in the tank but i know things arnt right, and its been remaining in there for months now. Water has always been the same with no downfalls, ammonia and nitrite always 0. the main thing I think Ive noticed that has common ground in all this is the "flashing" that has happened for months now. please help me to try and determind what is going on, I really want a healthy tank back,, thanks for reading,,

    Pearl
     
  2. pirahnah3 Fishlore VIP Member

    The white patch, is it a fuzzy patch? It could be a fungal infection if so, if it looks more like salt sprinkled on the fish its most likely ich. Other than those two I'm not the best at identifying these things.
     

  3. pearlypops Member Member

    my fish have had ich beofre and its defently not that, the white growth that is on my neon is cottony so defently looks fungal, but I think the fungal is a secondary outbreak to something that has initially started, the fuzz only came today but the greyish patches on it has been there for a few weeks, The fact that I am not identifying what the initial probelm is is whats leading to the fugus and deaths, I really need to try and figure out what is causing the flashing and upset, thanks so much for the reply pirahnah
     
  4. pirahnah3 Fishlore VIP Member

    most likely an internal parasite of some kind then, I would treat accordingly at this point as you have had quite a few pass but I am by no means an expert.
     
  5. Fall River Member Member

    Hi,
    Your profile says your nitrates are at 40ppm. How often do you change the water?
     
  6. pearlypops Member Member

    Hi Fall River, ive already has posts/threads disscussing this issue in the past, unfortunatly my nitrates are already that high coming from the tank so I have no means of lowering them via water changes, my fish have been use to this for nearly two years and have adapted and got use to this. i do 40% weekly water changes
     
  7. MD Angels Well Known Member Member

    Wow, sorry you having so many problems!

    With so many different symptoms, it really is hard to pinpoint a specific cause.

    Have you introduced any new fish recently? Your readings for ammonia and nitrite are zero?

    Well, it does sound like the neon is the one to go by because it has the most identifiable symptoms. Are the scales protruding as well as being bloated? A lot of the signs point to water conditions, and/or secondary bacterial infections. Perhaps with some of your more sensitive fish, neons, cories, the long term effects of high nitrates are difficult for them? I'm not sure about that, but definitely, secondary infections.

    Since there is not a whole lot you can do about the nitrates, though, first exclude other water contaminants, as well as altered ph.
    The swim bladder problems could be a parasitic or a bacterial infection. The bloating and popeye of the neon could be bacterial as well.

    I think the best bet here is to treat with an antibiotic. I would use Maracyn by Mardel. It seems to cover just about everything you've described. Do a water change before adding the medicine and be sure to remove activated carbon from the filter.

    Here is the product's description:
    Broad spectrum antibiotic treatment against gram positive bacterial and fungal diseases of fish.

    Maracyn Freshwater
    Antibiotic (Erythromycin) tablets are recommended for the treatment of body fungus (Columnaris), fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease and secondary infections. Erythromycin is a broad-spectrum antibiotic which has been shown to be effective against a number of pathogenic bacteria associated with ornamental fish disease.

    When used at the recommended dosage Maracyn maintains a therapeutic level of the drug within the aquarium. Maracyn does not color the water and will not interfere with the biological filter.

    Maracyn is primarily effective against gram-positive pathogenic microorganisms. Symptoms of clamped fins, swollen eyes, heavy or rapid breathing, patchy coloration, change in swimming behavior or corner hiding can be signs of possible bacterial infection. All suspected bacterial infections should be treated immediately. Available in tablet or powder form. Tablets/powder should be dropped into the tank (not the filter). The tablets/powder dissolve and circulate through the water. Use of a hospital tank is recommended. Use one tablet/powder packet per 10 gallons of water and repeat every 24 hours for 5 days. After treatment Maracyn can be removed by water changes or fresh activated carbon.

    Active Ingredients: Each tablet/powder packet contains 200 mg Erythromycin activity

    I hope this helps :)
     
  8. pearlypops Member Member

    Hi MD angels, thanks very much for your responce, there are no petruing scales on my neon, and doesnt seem to be bloated. yes nitrite and ammonia readings are zero. I have done a search on the maracyn product to see how available it is where i am, and i can buy it here, there are two versions Im finding though, marccyn, an maracyn 2, its it just the standard maracyn im looking to buy yes? Also I cant see any description on it about any fish that you are not to use this medication with. Do you by any chance know if it ill be ok to use with all the fish I have as I dont have a quarintine tank, so need to make sure it will be ok for my scaless pets such as my kuhli loach's corys and my african dwarf frogs, thanks again for your advice,
    Pearl

    edit- just tried to buy it and realised it is infact an overseas product and cannont buy the maracyn here in england :;rockerd
     
  9. pearlypops Member Member

    would also like to add and enquire, just had a rummage in my cupboard and found 2 proucts that im wondering if i can use to do the same job, 1 is API melafix and the other is INTERPET anti internal bacteria. can any of these be put to use? thanks
     
  10. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    ......not with ADF's in the tank.
     
  11. pearlypops Member Member

    Do you have any suggestions for me by any chance Lucy?
     
  12. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    I can only add that there aren't many meds that are safe for the frogs.
    Melafix or Interpet aren't considered safe for them, to the best of my knowledge.

    Maracyn 1 and 2 are. I've used them myself in my frog tank.

    Wish I could give you insight as to what is bothering your fish. Sadly, I don't know. :(
     
  13. toosie Well Known Member Member

    Pearl, could you by any chance take a few pics of the fish? Try to get as clear and as close of a shot as you can. Sometimes if we can see the symptoms on the fish, we can tell better what you might be dealing with. At this point in time I would be very reluctant to use any treatment plan other than more frequent water changes and the addition of garlic juice to their diet without being more sure of the type of problem you are dealing with. If you treat the fish before you are reasonably sure what you are treating them for, you may subject them to a treatment they don't require. Any type of treatment can add stress to an already stressed fish, and can make things worse for them if it has no way of helping them. It can also delay treating them for what they really have because most medications can't be mixed and so total removal of one med needs to be performed before treating with the proper med. Sometimes it is very hard to diagnose exactly what is wrong but the wrong treatment can be worse than no treatment at all.

    To add garlic to their diet, just soak the food you currently feed in a few drops of garlic juice prior to feeding them. The garlic and the water changes may help them until we figure out what to do next, and it's something that won't delay any treatments.
     
  14. pearlypops Member Member

    Hi all, my sick neon died lastnight, not good :( Toosie now that this neon has died there are no other fish that show noticable visable signs of illness so pictures wont help im afraid, the only issue im seeing now is the flashing. I have just inspected the tank very carefully and have noticed that 1 neon has 1 salt grain spec on its head in between its eyes, no other grains anywhere or on anyother fish, Ive seen ich before but always noticed it wen there;s lots of salt like grains on the fish, this is one singular white dot on him, should I assume with this and the flashing that ich is living in the tank and that is more than likely what is causing this? is it normal for only one fish to show one "salt like grain" on it with ich? thanks for the replys

    Pearl
     
  15. MD Angels Well Known Member Member

    Sorry about the Maracyn and your neon. :(

    That neon could have been very weak and developed a bacterial infection that did it in. The others it seems now may have ich. The flashing is a huge indicator, but the only way to really catch it and know is when its in its visible stage (technical term eludes me). If you've seen a spot on one, theres a good chance you start to see it on others. Some may not show any signs. Look at your bottom dwellers especially. They'll usually* show it first, being down in the substrate.

    It's tough to treat ich the traditional way when you have salt sensitive fish. And I have no idea about treating with frogs. However, I would wait a little longer to see if any more spots show up.
     
  16. toosie Well Known Member Member

    Sometimes ich manifests mainly in the gills. Fish can be infected and yet have no other real outward signs until it is a full blown infection. The heat treatment is very good at treating ich and no chemicals or salt are required. Just s-l-o-w-l-y increase the temp to 86F (30C) for 2 weeks doing extra gravel vacs in that time to remove any ich spores from the substrate, and increase aeration by dropping the level of the water in the tank so the outputs of the filter units splash further into the water, or by adding an extra bubbler.

    I DON'T know if the frog can handle the heat treatment, so hopefully others will be able to share their knowledge of frogs with you for that.
     
  17. Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    Mine has been through a bunch of heat treatments when it was homeless. I had it in a 20 long quarantine tank, in which I do heat treatments for new fish. I got it it's own home because I didn't want to continually subject the frog to heat treatments.
     
  18. pearlypops Member Member

    update: ok so the little white spot I saw on my neons head has now gone, so must have been a water bubble or something similar maybe? no other fish show any signs of ich apart from the flashing, corys show no signs of ich despite being botom dwellers, im just still unsure why they flash..its been a few months since they started flashing so im pretty sure if it was ich it woud have come through ny now. ???
     
  19. Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    There's something irritating them if they are continually flashing. It's either in the water or on the fish - the easiest thing to do is water changes, to rule out the water. If the fish is still flashing, then it's on the fish, in which case some anti-parasite med may be needed.

    Ich usually shows up on the fins first - it takes some time for them to start showing up on the body.
     
  20. Tuufy Member Member

    Could you not put the frogs in a different tank? a small one is all they need and that would not be too costly..........................