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Discussion in 'Cherry Shrimp' started by River Gray, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. River GrayValued MemberMember

    I am fairly certain that it is a female and she seemed to develop a saddle, tho it's hard to be sure because her red is so dense of a color it's hard to tell, at the time when all my females were at some stage of being pregnant (before the power outage that caused me to loose all my adults but her) and as the males weren't swarming over her that seem to indicate she was impregnated as they had swarmed literally over the the last female when we moved her out of the fry tank back into the main tank confirmed it. She eventually got a couple few eggs down on her swimmeretts, or what we thought were eggs anyways, however she never released them even through the stress of the power outage and the loss of all her companions. We thought perhaps they may have gone bad and possibly molded as she never seemed to know she had eggs and so never seemed to exhibit any fanning or other behavior we'd expect from a berried shrimp. So now they almost look more like they are molded or as if she has some weeds stuck in her swimmeretts more than it looks like we should expect any fry. We have kept her in a floating breed box partly for isolation and part for easier observation reasons. We had hoped that whatever they were she would be rid of them the next time she molted, however she has done that earlier today (she's the only one in the box so we can be positive it's hers) and yet those things are still there. So help! What are these things and what do we need to do to make her healthy enough we can put her back in the main tank which now has a bunch of red cherries and the 1 month old juveniles in it...
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  2. TexasDomerFishlore LegendMember

    Uh oh, that looks like Ellobiopsidae to me. I'd separate out the infected shrimp. Not sure how successful treatment is.
     
  3. River GrayValued MemberMember

    I'll go look it up of course but what is it and how does one treat it?!
     
  4. River GrayValued MemberMember

    I have her in a QT small tank big enough for at least the night or two and I even put all the plants that were in the floating breed tank separated into some clean water so if anything is on them I will be able to contain it and rinse them off and wipe them down before they go back into any tank...
     
  5. River GrayValued MemberMember

    I used a very very watered down mix of a parasite therapy that said it was ok for invertebrates which I soaked some shrimp pellets in for awhile before added in them into the tank and I also added a drop of ParaGuard into the mix and kinda chased her around the tank a little to run after her and made sure I got the med right on the tail and that had some success in me finding a molt and tho none was apparent on it she looked like she may have perhaps a little less of the fungus on her. I don't have the Ich med that people mentioned in some other threads but I did soak a small piece of an algae wafer in extremely watered down drop of quICK Which I did see her nibbling on a little so hopefully she will get the med and it'll kill the parasite wherever it's getting its nutrients from and hopefully she wont eat so much that it kills her faster than the parasite but then again that might be the most humane outcome if she's truly going to be stuck with this till it kills her. I just hope none of the juveniles more the cherries I just bought before I knew that there was a possible infectious parasite in one of my shrimp. Luckily she never had any real contact with any of the other shrimp except the water that may have transferred through the slats in the floating breeder tank that she was in after I let the juveniles out of it and into the main tank. So far I don't see any other shrimps looking infected tho I put a little pimafix and melafix in the tank to hopefully stop anything before it even has a chance to reign havoc. Even though I have been kinda regretting my decision to get the cherries that I did ever since I got them, I'm still hoping they don't catch anything and I'm especially hoping the juvenile blues (mostly blues anyways lol) or even the babies which are in a HOB breed tank that shares water so it's temp and pH stay about the same as the main tank (it's maybe a little cooler because it's not fully immersed in the water and the surface area open to the outside might allow it to cool a degree or two) but which has a nylon sock mesh over the intake so should be pretty safe... I'd be really devastated if they got infected with anything that wasn't easily cured as they are my first "home grown batches" lol! Tho technically the babies weren't fully bred here as their momma was already berried when we got her but the juveniles we had both the mom and the dad tho both are gone now from complications including the recent power outage... So let's hope there's no more disasters in store for these little shrimplets!!!
     
  6. itsEmmaValued MemberMember

    Hi, I saw that you'd found the thread on Ellobiopsidae from February, there's been quite a few on here recently so I wonder if this is be becoming more common?
    When I got it on one of my shrimp over a year ago, I searched and searched for a cure, but like everyone has said in the other thread, at the moment, there doesn't seem to be much that can be done.
    The only other thing that I wanted to mention, is that I've read that this parasite is (possibly) photosensitive and to completely black-out the quarantine tank/box. This didn't help in my case, my sick shrimp died, but, it's worth a try as it definitely won't do any harm.
    Just on a positive note, in my case, it was a single shrimp well over a year ago, and I've never seen it since.
    Good luck and let us know how you get on.
     
  7. TexasDomerFishlore LegendMember

    I'd be careful using so many different meds at one time, and with putting so much food in the tank - ammonia can kill quicker. Use one med that people online have found successful, and stick with it. I wouldn't use multiple, you can stress out the shrimp and kill it.

    Pimafix and Melafix won't do anything - don't bother with them.
     
  8. BithimalaFishlore VIPMember

    If you find something that actually works for you, please share it.
     
  9. River GrayValued MemberMember

    The pima and mela went into the 10 gal tank just as backup to help boost the chance of anyone else getting sick in the tank. And the paraguard and other anti parasitic are pretty much the same thing just one is a little more potent than the other... And I'm watching the ammonia and other levels very closely.
     
  10. River GrayValued MemberMember

    Will do
     
  11. River GrayValued MemberMember

    It wasn't as much food as it sounded anyways because the shrimp cuisine is tiny cubes and I put less than ten and the part of an algae wafer was about an 1/8th of a full pellet.
     
  12. River GrayValued MemberMember

    Sadly the Rili didn't make it . I'm not sure what the exact cause of death was as I didn't test the water before I cleaned it and the heater had warmed the water up higher than I was expecting once I blacked the tank out (duh stupid me) but I think it was probably for the best as it seemed to be a quick relatively painless ending which is preferable to the weeks it may have hung on before finally dying of the parasite anyways. So now my only problem is that upon trying to make sure there was no signs of any more of it amongst the shrimp in the main tank I discovered that I likey only have one or two males tops and I'm not even sure of those really because they aren't great quality mostly... My (mostly) blue juveniles won't be old enough to start reproducing for just under another month or so which means except for the saddles that a few of the cherries have I likely won't have many fry very soon and when I do I'm going to get a lot of "wild" colors for awhile from all the mating happening randomly in the tank while I selectively breed indivuals as I find exceptional ones or ones with good traits... As I have three tanks to spread them thru I don't mind getting wild ones for now tho eventually I will slowly become more picky with who is bred. If someone knows somebody that has some nice neos that they are going to cull because they aren't right for their particular breeding program, but are still overall decent shrimp (can't get much worse than the group of cherries I got from the store... Really kicking myself for not being patient enough to find a decent breeder and so might move them into my big or even little tank and let them live my the survival of the fittest type deal...But it feel almost too mean...) and thus might sell them for cheap as my current funds are low thanks to getting wiped out and a few other mishaps I've had recently lol #unluckylately, let me know!!! Hehe
     
  13. TexasDomerFishlore LegendMember

    Pimafix and Melafix won't even help the other shrimp resist it. You can add it, but it's really not doing anything.

    Definitely keep an eye on water parameters - shrimp are super sensitive to ammonia and nitrites.

    Why are you mixing colors? You'll lose all the good colors, and you won't have anything to select for.
     
  14. River GrayValued MemberMember

    Because I don't have a bunch of tanks to keep everything separated... I also no longer really have any spectacular specimens that I want to breed up. I am thinking I'm going to improve their cherry lot till I have some really nice colorful reds and perhaps when the juveniles are only enough I may take a couple of them out and put them into a breed tank to improve the blue line and try to enhance the couple that seem to be blue rilis and see how I do on that strain. Partially I am almost letting them go back wild because there has been so much over breeding by amateurs that some of the heartiness of the simplest cherries has even been eroded and lost. If I just let my culls all mix and end up with wilds well then it's only culls (my own and possibly others) that have been "downgraded" and with those I can then try to slowly breed back in traits with some of the more interesting "wild colors" and create some strong, diverse, and hopefully both interesting or nice looking but also very hearty shrimp compared to some of the shrimps I've had/seen that have seemed to be soooo delicate for neos because of the stock they came from. It's all about finding that really neat recessive gene and then bringing it out into a dominant one that carries down the line easily and predictably for me. Maybe it's because I myself am a "recessive trait" shower in a family where most everyone had different hair and eye color than me and I was always perversely proud of that lol.
     
  15. River GrayValued MemberMember

    I also need just "cleaning crew" shrimp for my big tank and so it doesn't matter what they look like, however because there's other species including a clown loach and tetras I don't expect them to continue breeding once they are in that tank unless I get a goodly number going before I add them in. So that's what will likely happen with the cherries I bought a little impulsively due to the upset of losing what was looking to be a really good colony when the power went out for two days. None of my blue fry will be old enough to reproduce till at least mid may and by then I should have any of the cherries that are going to have fry be showing their berries and will be in breeders allowing the males to either roam or get put somewhere with any of the blues that I would consider as "culls" and if any of them get pregnant then hey more workers for the tanks. Self sustaining population so I don't have to pay silly lfs' prices for cherries or even colors that really aren't that great, that's another reason/goal to my madness. I could elaborate even more but I'd probably bore everyone if I haven't already lol!
     
  16. TexasDomerFishlore LegendMember

    If you don't have room for different tanks, then I would still just stick to one color variant of the cherries. They'll be worthless in a few generations. Mixing the blues and reds won't help the blues.

    Mixing the color strains will have them go back to the wild coloration, but it won't necessarily make them more hardy. And you'll likely have a while (if at all) for you to see any color other than wild.

    Yeah, your fish will decimate the population, so they likely won't be around for long.

    Sounds like you have stocking issues, if you want to discuss them.
     
  17. River GrayValued MemberMember

    Did you happen to take a glance at my tanks listed stock? I don't have a stocking problem at all. Yes my ONE clown loach (as neither my Glo tetras nor the guppies have ever gone after any of the shrimp that they have shared a tank with before) might snatch up a shrimp here or there rather than eat the pellets he has or the tons of MTSs because I imagine they are more flavorful likely, however he'd first have to catch them and they are just as fast if not more so than him and there's plenty of places they can go or hide that he can't get to and the only creatures that like fast food are humans. The rest of nature is more sensible and doesn't waste as much energy chasing their snack then they'd get eating it! Especially when there are so many other things to eat if he chose to. And if it because a problem that he was eating all the shrimp I'd just move him to my small tank.
    Yes my blue line might suffer some from breeding with the reds but only because I don't have a lot of really good quality blues in the first place and second I WAS hoping to move the cherries that weren't berried or saddled out of the tank to the big one where the algae is running wild more than my Otos or the probably at least a hundred MTSs (if you count the ones you see while the light on and figure there's just as many or more likely hidden in the substrate, something I was hoping the loach would change but so far can't tell if he's been very effective so may consider an assassin snail at some point) can keep in check but that the cherries will scrub clean in days I bet. However I noticed that some of my blues have gotten a saddle a little earlier than I thought they would, probably guesstimated what day they were born a little later than was actually. So now I only have a couple of adult red males and maybe some blue juveniles that are old enough to actually be adults and may even be the ones that fertilized the blues and possibly even a red or two. I won't know till they actually have the babies and to do that they have to be berried which none of the saddled shrimp seem in a hurry to do for whatever reason even though my parameters are all in great ranges and/or spot on. Also at this point except for perhaps a couple of the blue females all the females look saddled up so for at least one generation I can't change what is going to play out. I'm trying to segregate any female blues of decent to good quality that isn't yet saddled so they don't become so unless I introduce a specific male, but I haven't seen any that fit all three of those criteria. They weren't all that great of blue stock either just what the lfs had at the time, so it's a waste of time to really get picky as their isn't likely that much "improvement" could even be made. It's not like people haven't ever crossbred colors before ya know or we wouldn't have all the colors we do... But whatever you have your opinion and I mine about it. I don't see myself as potentially "ruining" anything but of learning to breed and keep shrimp reproducing with some shrimp that were probably bred almost as randomly in the tank at the store. I haven't found a very good shrimp place nearby nor paid more than around 5 dollars a shrimp (which is excessive for their quality I think but since there's no other close lfs to get shrimp that aren't amanos, they can jack their prices if they want to and you just gotta pay it if you want shrimp. I'd also like to be more experienced with breeding before I try to get anything really nice and then kill them all off because I didn't have the right equipment, knowledge, and experience, for/in shrimp husbandry.
    When I am able to get se good quality stock of new neos be they red, blue, or rainbows, then I will make sure that I only let them mate when and with whom I choose. Right now I'm more concerned about figuring out why the saddled females are staying saddled longer than they have before and yet not being berried, as well as figuring out if I have a possibly sick shrimp that if so could end up spreading something or if it's not what it looked like at first but I need to refind the questionable shrimp before I can think of trying to QT it and I need to retake better pics to post and see if it even IS sick and needs to be put in QT and/or put out of what would likely be a terminal state that keeping it alive is only prolonging it's suffering. Maybe after all that I'll care more about interbreeding colors that people don't think you can ever get any nice looking deviants from.
     
  18. TexasDomerFishlore LegendMember

    Actually, you do have at least one stocking issue - you said it in the next sentence: your "ONE clown loach." We don't have to discuss it if you don't want to, but remember we're not attacking you, we're just trying to help you fish.
    You could improve your blue stock by adding some nice blues, if you wanted. Just adding reds won't improve anything, but if you don't care about color, then go for it!
     
  19. River GrayValued MemberMember

    If you're referring to the fact that clown loaches are usually schooling fish and so it's recommended to have more you'd be correct however clown loaches can be happy enough by themselves as a single fish in a community tank and after the other 2 loaches I bought with him died he actually bonded with my Glo Orange Long Skirt Tetra believe it or not. He likes to bury himself near the plant bottoms for what I call "catfish" naps and then he'll come out and find Sunny and swim with him and my other tetras but he'll also swim with the Otos loves sucking his ice cream cones (MTSs) and once in awhile even makes his presence known to the guppies. I have been waiting to have a free tank in order to possibly get more loaches again but he's got all his color and appetite and all signs of being a happy little clown.
    If you want to be helpful you might try to make sure that your online "tone" definitely reflects that as well as keeping things that are opinions like "stick to one color variant" "will degrade your stock" "will decimate your population" none of those are facts. The only one you could even claim who's basis in fact rather than opinions would be the last however as most in this hobby know all fish have different temperments, therefore my tetras who have always until just very recently have always shared their tank with shrimp without incident and my guppies that have had shrimp on and off with them and just totally have ignored them. So even if my loach did end up getting a snack of a shrimp or two every once in a while he won't be "decimating" a population that is breeding enough to be self sustaining and increasing which is what the "cleaning crew" is with the reds reproducing with reds and blues with blues and even a couple that actually would be considered by some an ok grade of chocolate (which were originally bred from wilds by interbreeding different generations with blue and then reds in different generations until they reproduced true, which my chocolates most like won't but they aren't from necessarily great stock in the first place as I already explained. So that will be a no thank you on the talk about my "issue" which is completely off topic from what this thread was about in the first place and as she sadly passed away

    ID APPRECIATE IF A MOD/Admin WOULD CLOSE THIS THREAD TO FURTHER COMMENTS.

    Thanks
    ~Riv
     
  20. TexasDomerFishlore LegendMember

    We can agree to disagree. Best of luck then.
     
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