So Tempted To Just Throw In The Towel

Not to promote the debate but a Month huh ? That is why I kiss those fish good bye .You dragged your fish through 4 or 5 complete life cycles of ich ?Just didn't want to kill it ?
I kill ich in 3-7 days 100% guaranteed ...It should be like getting a scratch on your finger ..Easily quickly fixed ..Not dragged out for a month long torture session for the poor helpless fish ?
I rarely say it but never not in my fish room , no way .
Is that a 'healthy debate' response ?

It wasn't ich. Conventional treatments failed me and heat and salt offered temporary relief. Its was a gamble of treating vs shortening lifespans. Everyone did well enough during the treatment but euthanasia was the ultimate end for the affected species. I knew what 90 degrees and salt does for oxygen content and metabolism for the fish, as well as what that short term exposure would ultimately do for tropical species. Everyone else did ok.

For ich, I would never even bother raising the temp. Especially knowing there are products that are safe for my tank that wouldnt need drastic measures. But again, I am an elder millennial. I look to research and the experiences of others before me long before asking on a forum. I love that I can research a wealth of knowledge from a computer in my pocket. But I grew up when Prodigy was the only real service to the internet.

 

I am very new and was one of those, who after a minicycle caused by a new filter, was worried that too much water change would extend the cycle...but it was quickly explained to me why that was a misconception. I'm not even sure it was someone here who taught me that. When I started I was not fully aware of cycling, and when I read about it through the many links provided to me by members, I was nothing but grateful. If there are not people here to do that, how many fish will suffer unnecessarily? I hang around and read here a lot and sometimes answer with generalities, like 'enjoy your new hobby' and 'this is the canister I use' more to be involved AND if it is something I would like to learn about too its a great way to get notifications. the point of joining the forum in the beginning was for help but now my point of being here daily is to meet others with the same obsession and continued learning. I don't post for numbers, but to get to know others and for them to get to know me. is that wrong?

I am very glad someone helped explain why water changes were necessary. I try to correct the misconception that water changes will stall or damage a cycle each time I see it being said. Most of the time a water change will solve the issue and will often prevent worse things from happening.

I can't help folks when their fish get sick because I have never had to deal with any of them. I really think the reason I haven't is because I do so many water changes.

It is good that you are sticking around. Now that you know what worked for you you are able to help others that are having the same issue you had.

 

I am very glad someone helped explain why water changes were necessary. I try to correct the misconception that water changes will stall or damage a cycle each time I see it being said. Most of the time a water change will solve the issue and will often prevent worse things from happening.

I can't help folks when their fish get sick because I have never had to deal with any of them. I really think the reason I haven't is because I do so many water changes.

It is good that you are sticking around. Now that you know what worked for you you are able to help others that are having the same issue you had.

Pretty sure it WAS you and it was very helpful. so don't go. But I still put little comments in and around just to get to know folks and for them to know me. Silent watching just makes me feel creepy,,,

 

Pretty sure it WAS you and it was very helpful. so don't go. But I still put little comments in and around just to get to know folks and for them to know me. Silent watching just makes me feel creepy,,,

Please check your PM box

 

Please check your PM box

figuring out how now

 

I may follow your lead and just start using the ignore option. I know there are those that are like a flock of birds. They come fly through drop a lot of misinformation and soon move on. Problem is, once it is dropped it is there forever and then shared

BTW: I kept cory's on gravel for many many years. I have just recently switched to sand. I am actually getting very close to going back to gravel.

That is one of the perks of being deeply into photography, I have the ability to provide years of photographic evidence to support my position.

Just wondering why go back to gravel?

 

That is one of the perks of being deeply into photography, I have the ability to provide years of photographic evidence to support my position.

Just wondering why go back to gravel?

My main reason for even thinking about going back to gravel is Elbert. He loves moving the sand around. He will have it several inches deep in some places and bare to the glass in others

I am very very slowly trying to switch over to live plants and I feel sure Elbert wouldn't allow any plants to stay planted. Guess I could consider plants that don't need to be actually planted.

I had some jungle vals planted. They had even started putting out runners but Elbert decided they needed to be moved so I woke up one morning to all of them floating. I replanted several times and each time he would dig them up. I finally moved them to a different tank. At least the mollies leave them alone.

 

My main reason for even thinking about going back to gravel is Elbert. He loves moving the sand around. He will have it several inches deep in some places and bare to the glass in others

I am very very slowly trying to switch over to live plants and I feel sure Elbert wouldn't allow any plants to stay planted. Guess I could consider plants that don't need to be actually planted.

I had some jungle vals planted. They had even started putting out runners but Elbert decided they needed to be moved so I woke up one morning to all of them floating. I replanted several times and each time he would dig them up. I finally moved them to a different tank. At least the mollies leave them alone.

I get it. Beast has an annoying habit of moving things around also.

 

Not to promote the debate but a Month huh ? That is why I kiss those fish good bye .You dragged your fish through 4 or 5 complete life cycles of ich ?Just didn't want to kill it ?
I kill ich in 3-7 days 100% guaranteed ...It should be like getting a scratch on your finger ..Easily quickly fixed ..Not dragged out for a month long torture session for the poor helpless fish ?
I rarely say it but never not in my fish room , no way .
Is that a 'healthy debate' response ?

What do you use for ich, coralbandit?

Regarding referring people to google, that is actually an excellent strategy!!! ( I just woke up over here and it came to me in my sleep )
Before I joined Fishlore, I discovered Fishlore by asking google questions.
For example, I might have googled, "Are Mollies and Bumblebee Goby compatible tank mates?"
More often than not answers were provided from old posts on Fishlore, going back many years.
This is a wealth of information that is highly valuable, saves us repeating ourselves AND is readily available.
It's like diving into the archives and getting an answer in one second!!! Brilliant! I still do it, as a first step to finding answers to new problems.

I found it easy to sift through the responses. The, 'I've heard' and the 'I've never had them but.'
Don't get me wrong, these are handy too but you keep them in perspective.
You can tell when somebody knows their stuff. You hear things like, 'This is what I do, and this happens.'

It is a BIG mistake to think that beginners to fishkeeping are feeble-minded.

Heh. I kept a tank at 90 degrees with added salt for a month. You just have to understand what is going on to keep the fish alive. The biggest issue is increased aggression if you do it correctly.

This is an example of misleading posts that REALLY rub me the wrong way.
The implication here is that raising the temperature and adding salt did not cure ich in a month!
Later on in this thread it is stated that the condition wasn't even ich.
P-l-e-a-s-e, let's keep things clear!

Raising the temp and adding salt DOES work... in days.
What works even better is keeping fish in a healthy environment!

That is one of the perks of being deeply into photography, I have the ability to provide years of photographic evidence to support my position.

Just wondering why go back to gravel?

I have always used gravel or crushed coral in my tanks. Just what I was used to.
But seeing all the lovely displays here I am setting up an aquarium with sand.
I am just 'filling up' and am amazed how easily it stirs.
This is a very 'ignorant' question but,
Would it cause any health issues for them if they are constantly ingesting it and breathing it??? Especially corys, etc?

 

Yeah, I know what you mean, I come to a thread that I know I can answer, I read the description and think about the problem for a while, I think about the question and how to solve it, and it's fine If beginners want to post on one or two threads that they particularly researched on when searching what fish to get, but when people who have been in the hobby for just a few days come to someone's thread and call me out for lies, I get pretty frustrated.

Although this is an amazing forum, the people on here can be stubborn, so there's no point arguing with them when something like that happens, so even when you're so obviously right, and even when you're so frustrated at the person, you're forced to just give up, and let them say what they say.

It gets me so mad that people just copy and paste the first search result in, in this forum you ask a question and someone gifts you some of their knowledge and experience that they personally had, that's what I love about this forum, my hours opon hours of research can be shared with all fish lore.

So I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone, look at these three pages of people who have problems just like you, I think that you should just let liars be liars and move on, they're only coming on so they can get a higher rank and be respected amongst the fish lore legends, just ignore the, I know it can be hard but.. It's better than an argument...

Who, sorry about that I like to rant.. I just needed to blow off some steam..

 

What do you use for ich, coralbandit?

Kordon rid ich plus [not the herbal ].
Any product that contains malachite green and formalin the best together proven cure for ich [documented]…
I have scale less fish that have been treated and think they did alright ??They are now between 11 and 16 years old and still swimming...
I try to remember most advice comes from people who haven't even owned a tank as long as I have had those fish ..what do I know ?

 

This is an example of misleading posts that REALLY rub me the wrong way.
The implication here is that raising the temperature and adding salt did not cure ich in a month!
Later on in this thread it is stated that the condition wasn't even ich.
P-l-e-a-s-e, let's keep things clear!

Raising the temp and adding salt DOES work... in days.
What works even better is keeping fish in a healthy environment!

Fair enough. I took the temp and salt as the bigger issue, not necessarily the ich. But you're correct, I could have stated that better initially.

 

I love this forum and love helping when I can but am getting so close to just giving up. I don't want to become that person accused of doing nothing but correcting misinformation so for the most part I say nothing. I have thought about just putting the worst offenders on an ignore list but if everyone did that there would be no one to dispute/correct the bad advice put out there. I understand there are lots of ways to get to the bottom of a problem and there are differences in opinions. There are lots of ways to get the job done. That is not what this is.

It seems some folks only goal is high post count. Content doesn't seem to be as important as getting in as many posts as possible. They don't know the answer to the problem but want to be the first one to post in a thread so just throw anything out there. Folks come here thinking they are getting answers from experts. It is fairly easy to tell the difference but when their fish are dying they don't question whether or not the folks giving them help know what they are talking about or not 'specially if they have a high post count.

Folks come to us for help and so often lately I am seeing the first advice given is just Google it. I feel sure they found us in the first place by going to google. Or they are sent to youtube for their answers. Don't get me wrong, youtube is a great resource but most of the folks that come to us are desperate for answers and need personal help. I always though that is what this forum is for.

Telling someone to just google it or search youtube seems like a slap in the face to the folks that come to us for help and probably found us by going to google.

I am pretty well versed on the cycling process and taking care of the water. I know very little about diseases or taking care of plants. I readily admit to my lack of knowledge about those things. I leave those threads to folks that can give educated answers to the problems. I will give moral support but will not give advice on something I know very little about.

The ones that have me considering throwing in the towel are the ones that will answer any question whether or not they have any idea as to what is causing the problem. Post count seems to be the main goal. I think those are the ones that have watched a youtube video or two and are now experts on every aspect of this hobby.

Collectively there is still a great group of very experienced folks here but sadly we have also lost a lot of them. I have to wonder if they felt the same way I am beginning to feel and just stopped trying to help. I know I am almost at that point.

Maybe I am just getting too old and this is the way it is with the world now and I may be the only one to see this happening.

I know this is an open forum and everyone is free to post whatever they want even if it is just repeating something they heard or saw on youtube with no hands on experience at all. I didn't really know exactly where to post this other than General but had to say what is on my mind. Mods are welcome to lock this thread if they feel the need to do so. I do hope it won't be deleted though. I don't want it to become a bashing thread. That is not my intention at all. Hopefully by posting this it will lessen my frustration and I can get back to helping folks.

Well! I hope you don't throw in the towel Mattgirl! You ARE knowledgeable and very active on this site. You help a lot of people. I am new to the forum and don't know much about treatment for diseases, but can recognize most of the diseases and their cause ( unfortunately most diseases/infection are caused by water problems or failure to quarrantine). I do, on occasion, post links to video or websites that might be helpful, and refer people to the nitrogen cycle, fishless cycling and other links on this site instead of repeatedly trying to type and interpret that information for them. I too get really irritated when bad information is disseminated to people really needing help. But at the same time, there ARE those people who ask for help and then argue every solution suggested.

 

Kordon rid ich plus [not the herbal ].
Any product that contains malachite green and formalin the best together proven cure for ich [documented]…
I have scale less fish that have been treated and think they did alright ??They are now between 11 and 16 years old and still swimming...
I try to remember most advice comes from people who haven't even a tank as long as I have had those fish ..what do I know ?

Yes, you do know, Coralbandit.
You do the hands-on and share the results.
Love it!

I have always been loathe to use strong chemicals but you have proven to me they work and don't have long-term consequences for the health of your fish.
Thank you for that!
Experience and credibility. A powerful resource.

 

I found it easy to sift through the responses. The, 'I've heard' and the 'I've never had them but.'
Don't get me wrong, these are handy too but you keep them in perspective.
You can tell when somebody knows their stuff. You hear things like, 'This is what I do, and this happens.'

I very intentionally add in "I have heard" as a preface to things I don't have personal experience in for that very reason. I want people to know exactly how much experience I have when I am offering information, so they can take that into perspective. I spend enough time reading about aquariums that I have a lot of information that comes from research, not personal experience. It is handy, and at the same time it is important for people to know how many grains of salt to take that information with.

I agree that google can be so helpful! Adding in the first response from google isn't helpful, but I have sifted through pages of search results looking for information that I am happy to share with people.

The impression I get from people jumping on posts without adding much isn't people trying to up their post count- it's people who just want to say things. It often feels like the person didn't even read the post, but only saw it was about goldfish and word-vomited a fact about goldfish. It's extremely frustrating, especially when I have a serious issue, get excited to see a response, only to realize it's barely relevant or just plain wrong.

I only just learned I can ignore people! Does that make all their posts invisible?

 

Kordon rid ich plus [not the herbal ].
Any product that contains malachite green and formalin the best together proven cure for ich [documented]…
I have scale less fish that have been treated and think they did alright ??They are now between 11 and 16 years old and still swimming...
I try to remember most advice comes from people who haven't even owned a tank as long as I have had those fish ..what do I know ?

So, to clarify...in your uneducated, non-millennial stumbling-about fashion, you have managed to keep individual fish alive for longer than the entire fish-keeping careers of some of the internet expert nay-sayers? And, in some cases it seems, longer than some of them have been alive themselves?

That's un-possible!

 

I don’t think I said this before, but I do suggest trying to not feel as though your obliged to help. I know a lot of times people on here and other places feel like this and it ends up stressing them out.

I also see others sometimes making them feel a bit guilty if they don’t help. I really don’t understand why people do this... but I have seen it on several occasions and I just don’t think it’s right.

In the end, this is soemthing you do for free and something you should be able to enjoy. You don’t have to give help, particularly if it will not even be taken into consideration, so just do what you enjoy doing.

Yeah, I know what you mean, I come to a thread that I know I can answer, I read the description and think about the problem for a while, I think about the question and how to solve it, and it's fine If beginners want to post on one or two threads that they particularly researched on when searching what fish to get, but when people who have been in the hobby for just a few days come to someone's thread and call me out for lies, I get pretty frustrated.

Although this is an amazing forum, the people on here can be stubborn, so there's no point arguing with them when something like that happens, so even when you're so obviously right, and even when you're so frustrated at the person, you're forced to just give up, and let them say what they say.

It gets me so mad that people just copy and paste the first search result in, in this forum you ask a question and someone gifts you some of their knowledge and experience that they personally had, that's what I love about this forum, my hours opon hours of research can be shared with all fish lore.

So I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone, look at these three pages of people who have problems just like you, I think that you should just let liars be liars and move on, they're only coming on so they can get a higher rank and be respected amongst the fish lore legends, just ignore the, I know it can be hard but.. It's better than an argument...

I do understand what your primarily saying, but I don’t think it’s right to call them liars... a lot of the time they may be giving bad advice, in our own opinions, but they are really doing their best or saying what they believe to be true. Granted some are just trolling and they could be considered liars, but most of the time I don’t think that’s the case. Giving ill-information isn’t always lying.

 

I very intentionally add in "I have heard" as a preface to things I don't have personal experience in for that very reason. I want people to know exactly how much experience I have when I am offering information, so they can take that into perspective. I spend enough time reading about aquariums that I have a lot of information that comes from research, not personal experience. It is handy, and at the same time it is important for people to know how many grains of salt to take that information with.

I agree that google can be so helpful! Adding in the first response from google isn't helpful, but I have sifted through pages of search results looking for information that I am happy to share with people.

The impression I get from people jumping on posts without adding much isn't people trying to up their post count- it's people who just want to say things. It often feels like the person didn't even read the post, but only saw it was about goldfish and word-vomited a fact about goldfish. It's extremely frustrating, especially when I have a serious issue, get excited to see a response, only to realize it's barely relevant or just plain wrong.

I only just learned I can ignore people! Does that make all their posts invisible?

I get that Jellibeen. It is good to add what you have researched, and you have clarified that.
Others who have had first-hand experience can add their thoughts if they disagree.

I recently did that in a post about blackbeard algae. I have never had it but had recently read some info about it that I shared.
It is SOOO much worst when people act like they know things first-hand but have only heard about it.
Eg, 'Bumblebee Goby must live in brackish water and are aggressive' (neither is true)

I am not sure ignoring posts is the answer.
Remember, in a court of law, no answer to a statement is considered agreement

 

I have always used gravel or crushed coral in my tanks. Just what I was used to.
But seeing all the lovely displays here I am setting up an aquarium with sand.
I am just 'filling up' and am amazed how easily it stirs.
This is a very 'ignorant' question but,
Would it cause any health issues for them if they are constantly ingesting it and breathing it??? Especially corys, etc?

I only use Black Diamond Blasting Sand (med-corase) or pool filter sand. I never have dust up issues. Maybe there is an equivalent where you live.

 

I only just learned I can ignore people! Does that make all their posts invisible?

Yes it does.

 

Yes it does.

On most forums, their posts become invisible, but if they have been quoted by someone else those quotes remain intact...so there is no escape...

 

I very intentionally add in "I have heard" as a preface to things I don't have personal experience in for that very reason. I want people to know exactly how much experience I have when I am offering information, so they can take that into perspective. I spend enough time reading about aquariums that I have a lot of information that comes from research, not personal experience. It is handy, and at the same time it is important for people to know how many grains of salt to take that information with.

I agree that google can be so helpful! Adding in the first response from google isn't helpful, but I have sifted through pages of search results looking for information that I am happy to share with people.

The impression I get from people jumping on posts without adding much isn't people trying to up their post count- it's people who just want to say things. It often feels like the person didn't even read the post, but only saw it was about goldfish and word-vomited a fact about goldfish. It's extremely frustrating, especially when I have a serious issue, get excited to see a response, only to realize it's barely relevant or just plain wrong.

I only just learned I can ignore people! Does that make all their posts invisible?

Yes, but it will show up as “ignored content” and you can choose to see it if you want.

On most forums, their posts become invisible, but if they have been quoted by someone else those quotes remain intact...so there is no escape...

Actually, here the quotes appear as “ignored content” within the post of whoever quoted it.

 

I think I'm going to ignore someone now just to see what it looks like fyi, been following this off and on from Friday, so sending loves to whoever needs it (I have a lot so everyone can take a piece ).

 

Not at all. I am pretty sure the ones I am actually talking about will know. I will not name names. I just hope this will open some eyes and we can all get back to helping.

I think I'm going to ignore someone now just to see what it looks like fyi, been following this off and on from Friday, so sending loves to whoever needs it (I have a lot so everyone can take a piece ).

Sounds like a plan, Swlws. I might try it too.
Hey, I think I might ignore you, you are such a softy. Bah humbug

 

Haha, sounds like its a common trait.

One post that stuck with me - can't remember who! Sorry- was people who literally type out the message word for word and pretend its their own info. The amount of times that I say something, and then someone else comes along and takes all the credit...

I always will say something along the lines of 'agree with x and y, or above'... and then say my message. Even then, I tend not to post - but like that response - unless I have something additional to add.


Btw, I need the love!

 

I am very new and was one of those, who after a minicycle caused by a new filter, was worried that too much water change would extend the cycle...but it was quickly explained to me why that was a misconception. I'm not even sure it was someone here who taught me that. When I started I was not fully aware of cycling, and when I read about it through the many links provided to me by members, I was nothing but grateful. If there are not people here to do that, how many fish will suffer unnecessarily? I hang around and read here a lot and sometimes answer with generalities, like 'enjoy your new hobby' and 'this is the canister I use' more to be involved AND if it is something I would like to learn about too its a great way to get notifications. the point of joining the forum in the beginning was for help but now my point of being here daily is to meet others with the same obsession and continued learning. I don't post for numbers, but to get to know others and for them to get to know me. is that wrong?

It was stella1979 who told you correctly, you can do several 100% water changes without disturbing your cycle, but you just need to do so correctly. Don’t ask me how I remember that hahaha.

Someone, today actually in a facebook group, made a post that said not to do more than 25% water changes during a fish in cycle because you’ll starve your bacteria. Also not true! Ammonia is produced rather quickly (ask my brine shrimp hatchery), and if you’re testing positive for ammonia, that means there aren’t enough bacteria to process it all anyway.

 

It was stella1979 who told you correctly, you can do several 100% water changes without disturbing your cycle, but you just need to do so correctly. Don’t ask me how I remember that hahaha.

Someone, today actually, made a post that said not to do more than 25% water changes during a fish in cycle because you’ll starve your bacteria. Also not true! Ammonia is produced rather quickly (ask my brine shrimp hatchery), and if you’re testing positive for ammonia, that means there aren’t enough bacteria to process it all anyway.

oh yes. my problem though, at the time was vacuuming, doing several large water changes in a row, and rinsing filter media at the same time(in tank water)...caused a minicycle AND made some white water mould spew from my filter. that's all under control now

- but good advice is good advice, and welcome always! there were two threads at the time going about pet peeve bad advice so its unbelievable to me that THAT particular one is back in a matter of days!

AquaticJ do you know anything about parasites? could you have a look at my recent thread if you do?

 

This thread is nothing short of a witch hunt!
'If you don't agree with me I will publicly insult you and ridicule you...'

People who keep fish... care.
Why else would they bother?
Different people are at different stages of enlightenment in keeping fish. But they all passionately believe they are doing the right thing for their fish family.

Instead of attacking those who are learning, let us share our knowledge.
Patiently and kindly.

 

Thank you everyone for your contributions to this discussion. It has been very heartwarming and eye-opening for me. I hope it has been for all the participants too. I am asking a mod to close it now since I think it has run its course.

Happy Fishkeeping everyone.