So...pH battle again...Seachem Alkaline and Acid Buffers

So Seachem used to have this nifty calculator that would tell me how much of each one I needed to get the desired pH or KH (one of these), anyway, they no longer do. The website just tells me how much Alkaline buffer now so I'm trying to determine how in the world do I dose this...I'm pretty much terrified I'm going to jack it up, is really the problem. If someone can just tell me the formula I can do the rest, I just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly.

My KH is nonexistent which is odd since I use quite a bit of tap...

Tap: (4 days out w/bubbler & heat)
pH= 9.02
GH= 9
KH=3
NH3/4= 0-0.25
NO3= 0

10gal:
pH= 8.42
GH= 7
KH=2
NH3/4= 8!
NO3= 0

I'm guessing the pH threw it into a minI cycle (a crazy one). I'm doing a water change right after this update!

Reason: My 10 gal tank pH tanked (no pun intended) from a lovely 7.35 (which has been maintaining well for awhile) down to 5.6 yesterday, I immediately added ¼ tsp of Baking soda...Now it seems to have rebounded to a super unhelpful 8.4...My. Poor. Fish. So I would prefer it be at 7-7.5 at the most if possible. I usually mix about 50/50 or 60/40 tap/purified water. the purified (bottled) water ranges from about 6.85 - 7.1ish on average. Any help is appreciated.

 

Hey, DuchesneWorld, sorry you're having this dilemma!

Man, you've got some liquid rock coming out of your faucets! Interesting that your KH is so low. Any reason why you're unhappy with your new pH of 8.4? Your fish should be just fine with that. Are you using any crushed coral/aragonite in your filter or tank to keep your pH buffered?

Personally, I'd be more worried about the 8 ppm ammonia!

 

Hey, @, sorry you're having this dilemma!

Man, you've got some liquid rock coming out of your faucets! Interesting that your KH is so low. Any reason why you're unhappy with your new pH of 8.4? Your fish should be just fine with that. Are you using any crushed coral/aragonite in your filter or tank to keep your pH buffered?

Personally, I'd be more worried about the 8 ppm ammonia!

Thank you for the reply!!

Oh yeah, I wasn't expecting that at all with the ammonia, I did a large water change and retested and everything looked good last night. My pH was at a lovely 7.35, but today it has dropped again, down to 6.0.

My concern with the 8.4 isn't that it is 8.4, it is that it has been maintaining at 7.25 - 7.4 for a couple months I believe (I will have to look at my last post about pH hatred) and now its all over the place again and I have been using more tap water than not from that whole thread. The measurements for the tap I listed above is with prime and 4 days of heat/bubbler, so for some reason KH is crazy low, whereas before it was 5 - 6 I believe. Its just frustrating. I think the bottled water is dropping my pH but the usual pH of my tap is alkaline and it makes me nervous for it to be at 9 after that many days. I miss my well water...Lol. I have the Seachem Alkaline Buffer and Acid Buffer and Equilibrium to add into the bottled/purified water. I have just been keeping an eye on it and kind of playing back and forth with the alkaline buffer if it has strayed too much.

 

I completely understand! My tap was at an awesome 7.2 for a few months and just recently dropped to 6.4. So I've just now delved into the world of Alkaline Buffer.

I may be wrong but I think adding baking soda will increase your KH without increasing your pH. CindiL should be able to confirm or deny that.

 

Any buffer will increase KH and PH.

Duches, I almost think you're better off just using alkaline buffer. There should be a formula on the back of each of the containers showing the ratio but you'll still have to experiment because they don't know your starting ph but probably assume it RO water which can be at 6.0. martidoll had this issue when she was mixing them. I am not sure if she stopped using acid buffer or not but she kept bottoming out too. I know she added crushed coral which I would also recommend for you, it would prevent this drop. You would still buffer the new water but the crushed coral helps hold it steady immensely. As your ph falls the coral dissolves and holds the ph and kh.

 

Any buffer will increase KH and PH.

Duches, I almost think you're better off just using alkaline buffer. There should be a formula on the back of each of the containers showing the ratio but you'll still have to experiment because they don't know your starting ph but probably assume it RO water which can be at 6.0. @ had this issue when she was mixing them. I am not sure if she stopped using acid buffer or not but she kept bottoming out too. I know she added crushed coral which I would also recommend for you, it would prevent this drop. You would still buffer the new water but the crushed coral helps hold it steady immensely. As your ph falls the coral dissolves and holds the ph and kh.

Thank you! Do you know about how long the coral lasts on average? Do I just mix it with my substrate or how does that work exactly? Something to hang on the side of the tank that I can put it in? Also is there a certain amount of coral or does quantity not matter, as in it will raise it a certain amount then maintain or just keep raising it if I put too much? I'm thinking you may be right and it will just be better in the long run so it doesn't keep crashing.

 

I use neutral regulator. Why not use that? It's also seachem. It's awesome

 

Thank you! Do you know about how long the coral lasts on average? Do I just mix it with my substrate or how does that work exactly? Something to hang on the side of the tank that I can put it in? Also is there a certain amount of coral or does quantity not matter, as in it will raise it a certain amount then maintain or just keep raising it if I put too much? I'm thinking you may be right and it will just be better in the long run so it doesn't keep crashing.

The amount of coral does matter but it pretty much peaks around 8.2 if you have a ton of it. I'd say 1/2 cup for a 20 gallon tank give or take. It slowly dissolves and can be replaced. It can serve as bio-media in your filter in place of other ceramic media.

I use neutral regulator. Why not use that? It's also seachem. It's awesome

I have nothing against neutral regulator, its just not recommended for a planted tank and can lead to algae growth since its phosphate based instead of carbonate based.

 

I use neutral regulator with plants and I have a few algae eaters, but I never get algae stuck on issues. The plants also use the phosphates. Yes, my phosphates are high, but I would just rather not have to deal with that than all of the above stuff, just because my tap water is a mess... This seems like the simplest solution. And I prefer it to carbonate buffer because my fish are heavily stocked and the plants can also use the phosphates. Carbonate buffers increase the CO2 in water, and decrease the O2 gas saturation points. My plants and fish seem to be fine. My water is ever so slightly milky, but everything is healthy. I am adding a UV light for any water borne algae.

Also, any algae that is formed has kept my nitrates along with my plants at 0 (and of course ammonia and nitrite at 0).

Also, carbonate buffers aren't recommended either, technically.

Is Proper pH a phosphate buffer?
Proper pH 8.2 is a bicarbonate and carbonate buffer and contains no phosphate. Proper pH 6.5, 7.0, and 7.5 are phosphate buffers. Phosphate buffers are the most reliable buffers for freshwater aquariums. They are non-toxic to fish and easily “lock-in” the pH for extended periods of time.

Do phosphate buffers stimulate algal growth?
No. Phosphate buffers combine with essential trace elements, like iron, causing nutrient deficiencies. Proper pH 6.5, 7.0, and 7.5 should not be used in aquariums where algal growth is desirable.

Can I use Proper pH with aquarium plants?
No. Phosphate buffers will tie up essential trace elements and stunt plant growth.

--- On the last line: I add "flourish" to my water... But, I am also using seachem regulator to soften the water... So, this is my very intention. (I need to reduce the water hardness for my fish) -- along with the high Ph

But this is also why I said on a forum to only use what you needed. Because using way to much is detrimental to the plants. that is why I did the water change when I added too much. Use as much as is necessary.

Neutral regulator brings my GH from 250ppm to 75 ppm, and my KH from 80 to 120 ppm. My ph from 8.6 or so to 6.8

Since one of her tanks has a general hardness of 161 ppm (slightly harder than merely hard), she is probably ok in reducing that (IMO).

 

I'm glad its working for you and your particular setup but I would not recommend it for most community fish setups that are planted. Alkaline water in general is easier for fish to adapt to than acidic water. I know you dose flourish but you really do not know how much it is tying up the nutrients.

I think the less done to our natural tap water the better. Having a product that reduces GH is unnecessary unless you are about where yours is at so I can understand why you use it. A GH up to 250 is fine for most fish. I also don't think you should try and reduce PH. A tanks GH should be as high as the highest mineral requiring fish so if you have snails or livebearers etc you need the higher GH. "Soft" water fish will only use what's needed where higher mineral requiring fish will not have enough minerals that they need for proper osmotic functioning.

If carbonate buffers caused an issue with CO2 you'd have a drop in PH. This is contrary to what it does since it raises KH and PH and doesn't effect GH at all.

Like I said I have nothing against it, it just wouldn't be a product I'd use or recommend when I think there are others that are more appropriate and won't change your water chemistry as much but just really are used for buffering.

 

hI all, I have crushed coral in mine and things have stabilized. I have a half cup in each tank (5 gal and 10 gallon) the 5 gallon still flucuates a bit and it got to 3 drops the other day so I actually used the alkaline buffer first time in 3 weeks. But the 10 gallon is stable at 5 drops for 2 plus weeks. now. PH is from 7.6-8.2 and stays there.
(I don't use the acid at all now).

The crushed coral really helps. I plan on swapping new coral in couple weeks to refresh it. I have it in two mesh bags and stuffed one in the filter in the 10 gallon the other one I have sitting right by the air flow in the 5 gallon so it gets water flow (No room in the filter) seems to work.

Good luck.

My other water is screwy too. I had nitrites in both tanks the other day. SO ODD. the nitrates stay around 10-20 and the ammonia and nitrates like to jump around (0 to low most days). I just do water changes ever few days and throw my hands up in the air Fish are fine!

 

Thank you everyone for your help. I appreciate it. I will be purchasing some coral and have to figure out where to put it. One last question...Is there a specific type of coral that I should purchase or is it just a general packaged coral that is specific for this type of thing? Thank you again!

 

umm, I know you want coral but if you ever need this. It is carbonate based, and not phosphate. Since they made such a fuss about the other stuff, I figured I would try something else. But to lower the GH I still have to use some of the neutral regulator. Here is the product. Continuum Aquatics "Flora Viv KH+" Alkalinity Booster & pH Stabilizer for Freshwater Aquariums

 

Thank you everyone for your help. I appreciate it. I will be purchasing some coral and have to figure out where to put it. One last question...Is there a specific type of coral that I should purchase or is it just a general packaged coral that is specific for this type of thing? Thank you again!

Any coral will do but there are packaged brands like at petsmart that are with the substrates and are coral/aragonite combinations. You'll end up having to buy a large bag (10 or 15 lbs) but it will last a loooong time lol.

 

This is supposedly coral and pretty. I haven't bought it, I don have room, but I wish I did.

My loaches wouldn't have that, they would knock it over to have more swimming room