So I'm sure my plants are deficient in something....

So I'm sure my plants are deficient in something, I just don't know what that is. The fun part is, I don't know exactly what plants I have. I'm trying to get into planting my tanks, so it's a learning process. My Anubias seems fine, it's the other two I'm concerned about. One is aponogeton of some kind, the leaves seem wavy and in some spots are brownish. The other is anywhere from pink to red to green, has pinholes in the leaves, curling/browning, loss of leaves, etc. I'm sure the pics will help more than my meager description. Thanks guys!

Side note, the 4th pic has a fake version of the others, so don't try to diagnose that one I didn't even notice until I had the real ones in for a while!

 

It's aponogeton undulatus if you recently bought these plants don't wry it'll lose all its leaves and new leaves will come from the bulb that you have burried.
Have you noticed the bulb at the bottom which is heavy?

I have this plant and believe me they are easy to grow as much as Jungle Val. I Get new leaves every week in every aponegeton I have but don't forget about root tabs.

 

HI KingCynosure,

Yes, the tank does have a deficiency issue, maybe two. What size tank, what are you currently dosing for nutrients, how much, how often, water changes?

 

It's aponogeton undulatus if you recently bought these plants don't wry it'll lose all its leaves and new leaves will come from the bulb that you have burried.
Have you noticed the bulb at the bottom which is heavy?

I have this plant and believe me they are easy to grow as much as Jungle Val. I Get new leaves every week in every aponegeton I have but don't forget about root tabs.

interesting, thanks!

HI KingCynosure,

Yes, the tank does have a deficiency issue, maybe two. What size tank, what are you currently dosing for nutrients, how much, how often, water changes?

29g, recommended flourish dose 2x per week, 30% wc weekly

 

HI KingCynosure,

That may be sufficient Seachem Flourish depending upon the amount of light and duration of the photoperiod.

The most obvious deficiency is calcium (Ca). Notice the downward 'hooking' of the leaf tips? A calcium deficiency is the only deficiency that causes that to occur on leaves. The second possible issue is magnesium (Mg). It isn't as noticeable but do you see downward 'cupping' of the older leaves? That is usually a magnesium deficiency. Lastly, the pinholes in the leaves may indicate a potassium (K) problem. Seachem Equlibrium should be able to resolve all three issues . Add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons; it will add 11.4 ppm of Ca, 3.4 ppm of Mg, 27.4 ppm of K, along with a little iron (Fe) and manganese (Mn). It will increase your hardness slightly by 2.0 dGH. If you do a 3 gallon water change add 1/3 teaspoon of Equilibrium to replace the amount that was removed with your old water. Now the hard part, be patient! For the next two weeks watch you new growth as the leaves emerge (the old leaves will change little if any). Are the new leaves straighter, fuller, healthier looking? If so then we have resolved the problem. Let me know how things progress.

Terminal bud usually dies. Symptoms on new growth.
2. Necrosis occurs at tip and margin of leaves causing a definite hook at leaf tip.
Calcium is essential for the growth of shoot and root tips (meristems). Growing point dies. Margins of young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green and, due to inhibition of cell wall formation, the leaf tips may be "gelatinous" and stuck together inhibiting leaf unfolding. Stem structure is weak and peduncle collapse or stem topple may occur. Roots are stunted. Downward curl of leaf tips (hooking) occurs near terminal bud. ammonium or magnesium excess may induce a calcium deficiency in plants... calcium deficiency

Differentiating between calcium and boron deficiency symptoms: When calcium is deficient, there is a characteristic hooking of the youngest leaf tips. However, when boron is deficient, the breakdown occurs at the bases of the youngest leaves. Death of the terminal growing points is the final result in both cases.

Interveinal chlorosis. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.
1. Older leaves chlorotic, usually necrotic in late stages. Chlorosis along leaf margins extending between veins produces a "Christmas tree" pattern. Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. Potassium or calcium excess can inhibit uptake of magnesium...magnesium deficiency

When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Leaves are abnormally thin, plants are brittle and branches have a tendency to curve upward. Stems are weak, subject to fungus infection, usually leaves drop prematurely.

Necrotic spots develop on older leaves
a. Margins of older leaves become chlorotic and then burn, or small chlorotic spots progressing to necrosis appear scattered on old leaf blades. Calcium excess impedes uptake of potassium cations.... potassium deficiency

Potassium deficiency symptoms first appear on the recently matured leaves of the plant (not on the young, immature leaves at the growing point). In some plants, the first sign of potassium deficiency is a white specking or freckling of the leaf blades. With time, the symptoms become more pronounced on the older leaves , and they become mottled or yellowish between the veins and scorched at the margins. These progress inward until the entire leaf blade is scorched. If sodium cations are present and taken up in place of K+1, leaf flecking (necrotic spots scattered on leaf surface) and reduced growth occur. Seed or fruit is shriveled. Potassium is phloem retranslocated from old leaves to new growth.

 

HI KingCynosure,

That may be sufficient Seachem Flourish depending upon the amount of light and duration of the photoperiod.

The most obvious deficiency is calcium (Ca). Notice the downward 'hooking' of the leaf tips? A calcium deficiency is the only deficiency that causes that to occur on leaves. The second possible issue is magnesium (Mg). It isn't as noticeable but do you see downward 'cupping' of the older leaves? That is usually a magnesium deficiency. Lastly, the pinholes in the leaves may indicate a potassium (K) problem. Seachem Equlibrium should be able to resolve all three issues . Add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons; it will add 11.4 ppm of Ca, 3.4 ppm of Mg, 27.4 ppm of K, along with a little iron (Fe) and manganese (Mn). It will increase your hardness slightly by 2.0 dGH. If you do a 3 gallon water change add 1/3 teaspoon of Equilibrium to replace the amount that was removed with your old water. Now the hard part, be patient! For the next two weeks watch you new growth as the leaves emerge (the old leaves will change little if any). Are the new leaves straighter, fuller, healthier looking? If so then we have resolved the problem. Let me know how things progress.

Wow, thank you so much. I will certainly try this! I'm not saying I doubt that I have a calcium deficiency, but I do keep a piece of cuttlebone in the filter, I'm surprised it didn't work as well as I thought it would.

 

HI KingCynosure,

Cuttlebone is composed of calcium carbonate which can add some calcium if the water is acidic (PH <7.0) however if the PH is alkaline (PH >7.0) calcium carbonate dissolves very little if any at all. The fact that the amount of calcium available is dependent upon the amount of cuttlebone and PH of the tank can easily result in insufficient calcium being available for healthy growth of our plants.

 

HI KingCynosure,

Cuttlebone is composed of calcium carbonate which can add some calcium if the water is acidic (PH <7.0) however if the PH is alkaline (PH >7.0) calcium carbonate dissolves very little if any at all. The fact that the amount of calcium available is dependent upon the amount of cuttlebone and PH of the tank can easily result in insufficient calcium being available for healthy growth of our plants.

That makes sense, my pH is 7.4. Brilliant, thanks!

 

Is there any way to naturally up calcium with less acidic water?

 

Is there any way to naturally up calcium with less acidic water?

Add calcium sulfate. Things such as crushed coral, cuttlebone, etc are calcium carbonate.

 

HI KingCynosure

Hey SeattleRoy,
How should I best trim the aponogeton (undulatus I believe Vichu said) and the red one (the name I'm not sure? I should have the Seachem Equilibrium soon. Also, should I trim them before or after starting the dosing of the Equilibrium? Any other advice? Thanks so much!

 

HI KingCynosure,

When I grew aponogetons if the plants became too large I would first remove the worst looking leaves and then start with the oldest leaves until I had it down to a size I liked. I pinched or cut the leaves at the base. As for the red plant (possibly Ludwigia repens or Ludwigia sp 'Red') do they need trimming? You could trim any time before or after it really doesn't make any difference.

 

HI KingCynosure,

When I grew aponogetons if the plants became too large I would first remove the worst looking leaves and then start with the oldest leaves until I had it down to a size I liked. I pinched or cut the leaves at the base. As for the red plant (possibly Ludwigia repens or Ludwigia sp 'Red') do they need trimming? You could trim any time before or after it really doesn't make any difference.

I was going to try to trim some of the ludwigia so that new leaves could grow back in healthier without the curling and pinholes etc.

Is there anything special about these bulbs/balls on the aponogeton?





I don't mean to pepper you with questions, you just have so many answers!

 

HI KingCynosure,

Sometimes it is better not to trim much prior to changing your dosing for two reasons, 1) the plants need as many leaves as possible to produce energy to put on the new growth and 2) the old leaves give you examples to compare your new growth against to verify it is looking better.

The aponogeton bulbs are where the plant stores nutrients.

 

HI KingCynosure,

Sometimes it is better not to trim much prior to changing your dosing for two reasons, 1) the plants need as many leaves as possible to produce energy to put on the new growth and 2) the old leaves give you examples to compare your new growth against to verify it is looking better.

The aponogeton bulbs are where the plant stores nutrients.

I'm sorry I should have been more specific, I meant to refer to the small round joints on the stalks coming from the plant. The pictures should show it

Good thought, I'll wait a while to trim anything

 

So it's been a while now, I've been consistently doing water changes of 30% (~10g) weekly. I replace about 1 teaspoon each time. I still dose the flourish, half a cap twice a week. 0,0,0-40 depending on how far into the week, for a long time now. The Ludwigia have been growing taller without issue, but the leaves still look unhealthy. The aponegetons are barely hanging on, although the bulbs are a decent size. There just aren't any leaves growing in. Any thoughts on what I might be able to try now? Thanks!

 

Any ideas anyone? SeattleRoy maybe?

 

HI KingCynosure

It appears the calcium deficiency is not fully resolved. Notice the 'hooked downward' leaf tips on the new leaves in the picture below?



And the gelatinous look of the new leaves in the photo below and difficulty the leaves are having unfolding?

I. Symptoms appearing first or most severely on new growth (root and shoot tips, new leaves)

A. Terminal bud usually dies. Symptoms on new growth.

2. Necrosis occurs at tip and margin of leaves causing a definite hook at leaf tip.
Calcium is essential for the growth of shoot and root tips (meristems). Growing point dies. Margins of young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green and, due to inhibition of cell wall formation, the leaf tips may be "gelatinous" and stuck together inhibiting leaf unfolding. Stem structure is weak and peduncle collapse or stem topple may occur. Roots are stunted. Downward curl of leaf tips (hooking) occurs near terminal bud. ammonium or magnesium excess may induce a calcium deficiency in plants... calcium deficiency

Differentiating between calcium and boron deficiency symptoms: When calcium is deficient, there is a characteristic hooking of the youngest leaf tips. However, when boron is deficient, the breakdown occurs at the bases of the youngest leaves. Death of the terminal growing points is the final result in both cases.

If you don't have a test kit for water hardness it may be time to get one. I suggest the API KH/GH combination test kit. In the meantime re-do the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of Equilibrium and double the dose you are currently doing at water changes. Then lets observe what happens over the next two weeks and re-evaluate. -Roy

 

HI KingCynosure

It appears the calcium deficiency is not fully resolved. Notice the 'hooked downward' leaf tips on the new leaves in the picture below?
View attachment 440568

And the gelatinous look of the new leaves in the photo below and difficulty the leaves are having unfolding?
View attachment 440569



If you don't have a test kit for water hardness it may be time to get one. I suggest the API KH/GH combination test kit. In the meantime re-do the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of Equilibrium and double the dose you are currently doing at water changes. Then lets observe what happens over the next two weeks and re-evaluate. -Roy

Thanks so much, I'll double the dose and get a test kit, then I'll check back in a while