So For A Planted Tank, And Generally Agreed Best Substrate Approach?

Let's say you want a planted tank. Maybe a couple fish in there, but mostly its about the plants. Is there any agreed best way to go about the substrate? What substrate generally, fertilizers, etc.?

Just some kind of enriched dirt as a substrate?

Same, but with large or small pebbles, or sand, covering it to keep dirt stable at the bottom?

Sand with root tabs?

Small pebbles with root tabs?

That kind of thing.

Is there any commercial substrate that is far and away the best for growing plants?

Thanks!

 

I've used CaribSea Eco-Complete on a couple tanks and it has worked well. However, eventually the nutrients run out and then its a question of do I overhaul the tank to re-enrich the substrate or do I just supplement?

Because of this, every tank I have set up in the last ~2 years I have used black diamond blasting sand -- it's super cheap and it's super fine making it safe if you decide to have any substrate dwellers. I supplement with fertilizer tabs but before worrying about fertilizer, I would make sure you have good lighting, pH, and CO2 levels.

All that said, my favorite substrate for keeping nice, planted tanks as well as fish, has been the sand : )

 

Oh wow Gabbie, this one? This is what I have in my tank!



So that (or other similarly sized sand), along with fertilizer tabs, do the trick? By fertilizer tabs, do you mean what I think people call "root tabs" - that have not just fertilizer, but are (mainly) dirt or what not? Or the sand can actually act as the dirt, so you just need fertilizer in the tabs? Do you have any good fertilizer suggestions?

Thanks!

P.S. funny you should mention Eco-Complete - I watched a youtube video the other day and he was in some guy's fish room - they both said that if money was no object they would use Eco-Complete, and what is funny they seeming indicated that it would last forever. Sounded weird to me - of course whatever nutrients it has will be absorbed by the plants over time!

 

I love my plain ol play sand from Home Depot. I do use root tabs and a liquid fert as well.

 

Yup, almost the exact same as what I have! In Minnesota, we have a chain called Menard's (similar to Home Depot) that sells blasting sand so that is where I grab mine. I have used SeaChem Flourish (liquid), SeaChem Flourish Tabs, and API Root Tabs. Currently, similar to WTFish?, I use a combo of API's root tabs and SeaChem Flourish!

And yes, the Eco-Complete was nice but about 5 years in, I found I needed to supplement that tank with fertilizer. I'm sure if I had made my substrate level thicker, it would have lasted longer but even so, there is a limit on what you can pack in there! So between the cost difference and the fact that I now have fish that hang out in/on the substrate like KuhlI loaches, I only do sand.

I would say, do whatever substrate you like best and supplement as needed!

 

I swear by Black Diamond Blasting Sand. Use Root tabs and it's been great for me.

20190519_214244

• Sergeant Pepper
• May 20, 2019

 

Almost every advanced hobbyist and professional aquascaper will say ADA Amazonia. It is leagues ahead of things like Eco-complete and Seachem Flourite, which are more like glorified gravel. Amazonia is an aquasoil, a category of substrates that are made of compressed soil granules, unlike rock/clay substrates like Eco and Flourite that you'll find in most chain stores or LFS's. Those store brands just have a strong marketing game, with claims that sound nice but are misleading in reality.

"Many commercial planted aquarium substrates may list a long list of chemical elements present in their substrate, however, these elements are mostly locked up in the mineral crystal lattice, and plants cannot get to them easily. That is why inert substrates don't break down significantly over time or change water parameters.

This is similar to listing oxygen as an ingredient in inert silica sand (SiO2) - yes, the oxygen molecule is present, but it's never going to contribute to oxygen levels in the tank because it's locked up in the molecular structure. This means that commercial inert substrates do not innately contain significant amounts of nutrients for plant growth, despite what the marketing says. Nutrients would need to be added in the form of root tabs / water column dosing for optimal growth. "


Aquasoils will also lower pH by stripping KH, nice for a lot of fish and shrimp. The pH drop varies brand to brand. ADA Amazonia stands out from other aquasoils as well because it has ammonia locked into it, which is a great nitrogen source for plants. Aquascapers will scape a tank, plant heavily and completely, and the substrate will leech ammonia for a few weeks, which both cycles the tank and feeds the plants.

Not only are soil based substrates better for root development and are much more nutrient rich, they also have a high cation exchange capacity. That's the ability to take positively charged nutrients and bind them to the substrate, hence making them available to plants. The info is a bit old but it seems like non-soil commercial substrates have extremely low CECs as well:


While I think Coreyare a talented and knowledgable bunch, their plant knowledge is sometimes really shaky. If money were no object, I think most aquascapers and people whose tanks are mostly about the plants would deck out their entire setup with ADA products. ADA is one of the pioneers of aquascaping and set the industry standard, and they run the most mind-blowing international aquascaping contest every year. Compared to most aquasoils in general, eco-complete and Flourite's structure, low nutrient content, and low CEC just can't compete

 

While I think Corey are a talented and knowledgable bunch, their plant knowledge is sometimes really shaky. If money were no object, I think most aquascapers and people whose tanks are mostly about the plants would deck out their entire setup with ADA products. ADA is one of the pioneers of aquascaping and set the industry standard, and they run the most mind-blowing international aquascaping contest every year. Compared to most aquasoils in general, eco-complete and Flourite's structure, low nutrient content, and low CEC just can't compete

Completely agree with this. Some of the plant knowledge I see their channel promoting is not the greatest.

Eco complete is overpriced and overglorified plain old gravel. Contrary to common opinion, it does NOT contain nutrients. It is inert. The reason why people say it has nutrients is because of its supposed high CEC capacity. I've used eco complete before and it's nothing great. It really isn't and it is hard to get plants to stay in the substrate.

Now for ADA Aquasoil. It's definitely the best of the best planted tank substrates, but there are definitely drawbacks you need to know about. The most upfront drawback is the high ammonia content. This ammonia is known to cause huge algae blooms in the beginning of the tank and it can be a real pain to manage if the tank is not set up properly for the beginning. It also runs out of nutrients within a few years so the aquasoil has to be supplemented with root tabs and/or replaced.

What is my preferred substrate? Plain old dirt capped with pool filter or play sand. Why do I prefer this? Dirt is very customizable and rich in nutrients with a high CEC capacity. If you do something like river silt, topsoil, and red dirt, your plants will grow great. It's also very cheap and holds plants in the substrate well. Again, this has the same issue as the ADA amazonia where there is lots of ammonia content and dirt is very very messy to use. Don't plan on rescaping often with dirt.

The most practical substrate though? Pool filter sand with nothing else. It's the easiest by far to manage. Maybe stick a few root tabs here and there and let it be. If you do this, water column fertilization is mandatory though.

In summary,

Worst substrates: Pea gravel, flourite, eco complete
Best Substrate: ADA Aquasoil, Dirt capped with sand
Most practical: Pool filter sand with root tabs

 

Mak and Vishquatics, I watched some youtube vidoes. Apparently Eco Complete, according to many reviews, while it does not hold a lot of nutrients at its inception in the tank, the supposedly nice thing about it is that it can absorb nutrients from the water column with ease. Hence on day 1 it might not be that great, but on day [60] it will be fabulous as long as you have dosed minerals into the water column for it to absorb.

True? If so, isn't it a great long term substrate, so long as you are ready and willing to add fertilizers to the water column?

Thanks!!!

 

Mak and Vishquatics, I watched some youtube vidoes. Apparently Eco Complete, according to many reviews, while it does not hold a lot of nutrients at its inception in the tank, the supposedly nice thing about it is that it can absorb nutrients from the water column with ease. Hence on day 1 it might not be that great, but on day [60] it will be fabulous as long as you have dosed minerals into the water column for it to absorb.

True? If so, isn't it a great long term substrate, so long as you are ready and willing to add fertilizers to the water column?

Thanks!!!

As somebody who dealt with EcoComplete in multiple setups at work I hate the stuff. Plants suffered in it despite being on a modified EI dry fertilizer schedule, and all it did was collect fish/snail waste and get covered in hair algae. It's just crushed lava rock and is basically devoid of nutrients, not to mention it tends to damage delicate stems when planting in it.

Given the option I'd rather do plain sand than EcoComplete ever again.

PS - Aquasoil is my favorite. Plenty of nutrients and it's the easiest to scape with.

 

Thank you Fahn!

So it is literally just crushed lava rock?! How can they advertise it like they do?!

 

Mak and Vishquatics, I watched some youtube vidoes. Apparently Eco Complete, according to many reviews, while it does not hold a lot of nutrients at its inception in the tank, the supposedly nice thing about it is that it can absorb nutrients from the water column with ease. Hence on day 1 it might not be that great, but on day [60] it will be fabulous as long as you have dosed minerals into the water column for it to absorb.

True? If so, isn't it a great long term substrate, so long as you are ready and willing to add fertilizers to the water column?

Thanks!!!

For some reason this is an extremely common myth, while the brand itself has never advertised such properties as far as I know In my previous post I went over this:

Not only are soil based substrates better for root development and are much more nutrient rich, they also have a high cation exchange capacity. That's the ability to take positively charged nutrients and bind them to the substrate, hence making them available to plants. The info is a bit old but it seems like non-soil commercial substrates have extremely low CECs as well:

 

If your comparing substrates aquasoil wins hands down.

It already contains nutrients for plants plus it has a high cec ratio so it will absorb nutrients from the water column for plants too. It does not run out of nutrients like some say. I think people started saying this because it stops leaching ammonia after around 1 year.

Its soft so it won't harm bottom dwelling or burrowing fish.

Its easy to plant in and plants can grow and spread freely.

Unlike root tabs the nutrients are spread out evenly throughout the tank and not concentrated in on place like with root tabs.

And unlike capped soil you can rescape your tank as often and whenever you want without having to worry about your substrate.

 

Thank you Mac and smee82! That is amazing to me that Corey, and others, are saying Eco Complete is great at absorbing minerals in the water column so that plants can get them out of the substrate when its CEC ratio is so low!

So with Aquasoil, is its CEC ratio sufficiently high such that, as long as you dose your water column with minerals from time to time, you will NEVER have to replace or use root tabs on Aquasoil?

What is Aquasoil's CEC ratio by the way, and are there any commercial substrates that are higher?

If one is going to have fish or invertebrates in the tank, is the amount of ammonia Aquasoil leeches significant enough so that it might hurt the animals? Or if the tank is cycled can the bacteria generally handle it no problem?

Thanks, very interesting!!!

 

What is Aquasoil's CEC ratio by the way, and are there any commercial substrates that are higher?

ADA Aquasoil's CEC is roughly 30 meq / 100 gallon = very high
Eco-Complete's CEC (Floramax actually but = same as Eco-Complete) is 5-7 meq / 100 gallon = low - moderately low.

 

Thank you Mac and smee82! That is amazing to me that Corey, and others, are saying Eco Complete is great at absorbing minerals in the water column so that plants can get them out of the substrate when its CEC ratio is so low!

Corey also says you can put a betta with a fancy goldfish.

 

Corey also says you can put a betta with a fancy goldfish.

LOL! I do not know about bettas and goldfish, but I'm going to assume he is dead wrong about that?

ADA Aquasoil's CEC is roughly 30 meq / 100 gallon = very high
Eco-Complete's CEC (Floramax actually but = same as Eco-Complete) is 5-7 meq / 100 gallon = low - moderately low.

Thank you Chanyi! Is 30 really that high? Per this link it looks ok, but nothing special at all as far as CEC rating goes:

But some of that high CEC stuff, like humus and peat moss, is probably not all that workable in a planted tank. Is 30 about as high as one can get and have a very workable substrate?

Thanks!

 

Thank you Chanyi! Is 30 really that high? Per this link it looks ok, but nothing special at all as far as CEC rating goes:



But some of that high CEC stuff, like humus and peat moss, is probably not all that workable in a planted tank. Is 30 about as high as one can get and have a very workable substrate?

Thanks!

upon looking into it more, it is over 50 meq's / 100 grams.

I am the author of that thread in link you posted

 

Hhaha awesome Chanyi! Thanks!

 

I use ADA aquasoil in all my tanks, with no complaints. Much much less messy compared to dirt capped with sand/gravel. Easier to replant if required.

 

I personally really like Fluval plant and shrimp stratum substrate, it will bring your PH down to around 6.4-7. I have a 40 breeder tank that sits at 6.4 and a 10 gallon that sits at 6.6 but all of my plants grow really well

 

Does ADA aquasoil still do a decent job if you mix it with sand for instance? Its pretty expensive and I don't think my tank will be that heavily planted. I am in process of setting up a 40 gallon breeder. Not sure how much ADA I would need exactly for that, but I imagine a lot more than I can afford, lol.

 

Does ADA aquasoil still do a decent job if you mix it with sand for instance? Its pretty expensive and I don't think my tank will be that heavily planted. I am in process of setting up a 40 gallon breeder. Not sure how much ADA I would need exactly for that, but I imagine a lot more than I can afford, lol.

I don't recommend mixing it with anything.

However, you can use it only in spots you'd be planting rather than the entire tank.

There are less expensive aquasoils as well.

 

Does ADA aquasoil still do a decent job if you mix it with sand for instance? Its pretty expensive and I don't think my tank will be that heavily planted. I am in process of setting up a 40 gallon breeder. Not sure how much ADA I would need exactly for that, but I imagine a lot more than I can afford, lol.

I also do not recommend mixing, but you could try capping it with black sand instead.

 

LOL! I do not know about bettas and goldfish, but I'm going to assume he is dead wrong about that?

That’s weird cause goldfish like cool water and Bettas like it really warm! Somebody is gonna be very uncomfortable or dead!

 

I use ADA aquasoil in all my tanks, with no complaints. Much much less messy compared to dirt capped with sand/gravel. Easier to replant if required.

Hello. I have ADA Amazonia substrate over 3/4 of my 75 gallon tank established 4 months ago. The other 25% is CaribSea Super Naturals Aquarium sand, which is very large grained but very soft. The Amazonia still clouds up my tank when I try to move a plant or if my male bristlenose wiggles around in it. Very frustrating!

 

So the bottom line is you want a soil, not mineral based substrate. Dirt is cheap but messy. amazonia, aquasoil, stratum and the like are going to be best bang for a beginner's buck. I say this because you will move plants around. You will have decent results with it, and as far as Cec and the like go, soils can actually be good forever. They won't leech ammonia after a while but so what? EI dosing will ensure the soil stays rich with ferts and your water column dosing ensures your water stays rich.

Btw, Tom Barr did a lot of work in this regard and does publish his work actively in the community. I'm not going to say he is a God amongst planted tanks, but he is almost universally the one with the best research and information.

I've never heard Corey say you can house a goldfish and betta together, but I imagine there are a few more lines to what he said if he said that. He also states you can have 20 neon tetras in a 10 gallon, but goes on to explain why it's a bad idea. He and Joel are trying to help the community by ending the shaming and bashing that is rampant and discouraging for new people. Gentle suggestions about how to do things better is what they are after instead of a lot of what goes on in forums. I thought it was weird at first, but in the long term, their approach is probably a lot better for expanding the community than the mentality that is on display quite often here.

 

Completely agree with this. Some of the plant knowledge I see their channel promoting is not the greatest.

Eco complete is overpriced and overglorified plain old gravel. Contrary to common opinion, it does NOT contain nutrients. It is inert. The reason why people say it has nutrients is because of its supposed high CEC capacity. I've used eco complete before and it's nothing great. It really isn't and it is hard to get plants to stay in the substrate.

Now for ADA Aquasoil. It's definitely the best of the best planted tank substrates, but there are definitely drawbacks you need to know about. The most upfront drawback is the high ammonia content. This ammonia is known to cause huge algae blooms in the beginning of the tank and it can be a real pain to manage if the tank is not set up properly for the beginning. It also runs out of nutrients within a few years so the aquasoil has to be supplemented with root tabs and/or replaced.

What is my preferred substrate? Plain old dirt capped with pool filter or play sand. Why do I prefer this? Dirt is very customizable and rich in nutrients with a high CEC capacity. If you do something like river silt, topsoil, and red dirt, your plants will grow great. It's also very cheap and holds plants in the substrate well. Again, this has the same issue as the ADA amazonia where there is lots of ammonia content and dirt is very very messy to use. Don't plan on rescaping often with dirt.

The most practical substrate though? Pool filter sand with nothing else. It's the easiest by far to manage. Maybe stick a few root tabs here and there and let it be. If you do this, water column fertilization is mandatory though.

In summary,

Worst substrates: Pea gravel, flourite, eco complete
Best Substrate: ADA Aquasoil, Dirt capped with sand
Most practical: Pool filter sand with root tabs

So basically if I'm dosing the water column daily from day one I can grow things like swords crypts and Dwarf sag...... Low to medium light plants?

 

So basically if I'm dosing the water column daily from day one I can grow things like swords crypts and Dwarf sag...... Low to medium light plants?

Yes, provided you're dosing adequate amounts in the water column

 

Yes, provided you're dosing adequate amounts in the water column

Cool and I'm sorry I thought I mentioned it in my 1st question..... So using just plain sand or fine gravel (inert substrate) dosing water column daily I can grow low to medium light plants correct?

 

Cool and I'm sorry I thought I mentioned it in my 1st question..... So using just plain sand or fine gravel (inert substrate) dosing water column daily I can grow low to medium light plants correct?

Any plant regardless of light needs can be grown (at the appropriate light level) if the water column is sufficiently fertilized.

 

Cool and I'm sorry I thought I mentioned it in my 1st question..... So using just plain sand or fine gravel (inert substrate) dosing water column daily I can grow low to medium light plants correct?

Yes, although I recommend using sand instead of gravel as it is easier to plant and easier for plants to root