so angry with myself!!!!please help

[queenbobby]

:i've been stupid and now I'm in desparate need of help...
i've asked so may people and every one is giving me different advice!!!!
ok folks i've messed up big time
changed my set up and external filters were off for 24 hrs.... cycled my other tank of malawis with tetra safe start and had no problems so sent hubby out to get some fish and tetra safe start...
had added water to tank a day ago, heaters on, chlrne remover in...etc filter on for 1 day..
husband made 2 errors...
bought nutrafin cycle instead and ..it gets worse.....and he bought 3 large clown loaches (10cm each)
THE MOST SENSITIVE FISH HE COULD HAVE FOUND!!!!
called the shop wouldnt take them back they werent out of the bag yet!!!
I didnt know whether to add the cycle or not so after many frantic phone calls I added the right dose 1/2 bottle tank is 350litres and acclimatised them.

its been 3 days i've asked everyone and they said to keep eye on water and wait ...well I don't wanna lose any fish

took my water for testing at a diff fish store and they said it was fine it is day3 now....so its not really gonna be high... after dong copius amounts of reading the net I have added about 35% of filter media from another tank I have to the filter ...
I didnt do this in the first place as the front tank is peacocks and haps and the water is completely different

please please please fis

 

[Meenu]

I would do a few large water changes and get some TSS asap. The LFS won't even let you just bring the clown loaches back as a donation?

 

[jetajockey]

Can u use some filter media from the other tank?

 

[queenbobby]

hI I have added 35% filter media cermaic balls and some pads from another tank hopefully that should have helped do you think?

 

[midthought]

Take a deep breath! I think you're already doing all you can, no need to beat yourself up about it. I'd side with the others you've asked, you just need to keep an eye on your parameters and react accordingly. If you see spikes in ammonia or nitrite, do water changes and treat with Prime or a similar water conditioner. It sounds like you don't have a testing kit in your home. It's a good investment and it would probably give you peace of mind to be able to test when you're worried at random times, rather than have to take your water to the store each time.

Also, when you say that the other tank has "completely different" water, did you mean in terms of hardness, temp, etc.? Because all you're looking to grow are the bacteria, so I believe you could use the filter media from the older tank to seed the new one. Of course, TSS can't hurt either.

Good luck with your tank.

 

[jetajockey]

using the cycled media should help significantly. Just keep an eye on the water, suggest getting a liquid test kit if you don't have one (a few trips to the pet store and/or strip test kits make up the difference in cost)

 

[queenbobby]

thanks for being so understanding your right I am really worried about it all!!
I love my clowns and I dint wann lose them at all... so I definatle won't harm the cycle at present by adding tetrasafe start#?
thanks so much for the rely
what I meant baout different water wa sthat the other tank is a malawI tank with higher ph and different hard water.

 

[midthought]

You can add TSS after the tank has fish in it. It's just a population of bacteria that you're introducing. I would probably stop dosing with Cycle though. Just keep a eye out on the parameters as always.

Different water parameters won't matter, by the way, when using filter media to seed the new tank. You just want the bacteria, and they should survive the trip from one tank to another.

 

[Meenu]

you have to get rid of the nutrafin cycle before adding the tss - reason I recommended water changes.

 

[queenbobby]

oh you really have made me feel better I have just finished a 15hr shift and can sleep in peace!!!
thanks so much
just to mention I only added 30-35% filter media across ie large handful ceramic rings and 2 pads that should be enough?
so it really doesn't matter if I don't get the massive bottle of tss which is about £25 as I need enough for 350l you see
thnksx

 

[queenbobby]

ok so how much water shall I change prior to adding tss?
why do I need to remove the cycle I thought you couldnt overdose on the live bacteria?

 

[jetajockey]

the basic idea is that the Cycle (brand) bacteria is not the same type as the kind that grows naturally in the tank, so if its in your system then it is competing for the ammonia and nitrites, so basically starving the beneficial bacteria that you are trying to grow.

 

[queenbobby]

oh god why on earth did I use that!!!

 

[queenbobby]

so how does it claI'm to cycle your tank?

 

[midthought]

Sleep in peace is one way to put it; after 15 hours of work I would just *pass out*.

That sounds like a good amount of to me but it's gonna also depend on the bioload of the old tank, not just amount of media you move over. Not to add more to your plate but you may even want to do some testing on your old tank just to make sure the parameters there are still good.

 

[midthought]

so how does it claI'm to cycle your tank?

The idea is that the bacteria eat the appropriate bad chemicals but don't survive in water for that long, hence they need to be replaced.

My personal experience with Cycle the one time I used it doesn't support this, as my tank cycled quickly and smoothly and never crashed when I quit using it. But the point is that you get different experiences with it, and it's just a hit or miss product.

 

[jetajockey]

well the idea behind cycle (brand) and many other boosters is that the bacteria in them will supplement the nitrification process until your nitrifiers catch up and take over. This obviously has flaws and is unreliable which is why many of these products require repeat doses.

I tried cycle on one of my tanks in the past, and ended up taking over 10 weeks of water changes (and long after the cycle bottle was empty) to start seeing any nitrification.

*edit* midthought you are too fast for me!! ;D

 

[jdhef]

"Cycle" contains bacteria that will convert ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates. The only problem is that the bacteria is a land based form of the bacteria and only lives for about a week or so in the water. Once that bacteria drawns, your tank is no longer able to process ammonia and nitrites. So that is why the instructions on the bottle of cycle tell you to add more very week. You would need to replace the bacteria that died with new bacteria.

The problem with using "Cycle" along with SafeStart is that the bacteria from the "Cycle" eats all of the ammonia and nitrites out compeating the bacteria in the SafeStart. So the bacteria in the SafeStart dies. (The bacteria in the "Cycle" may also starve out the bacteria that you added with the established media).

So what I would do is get a good test kit and test your water daily. Once you start getting a rise in ammonia, it will be an indication that the "Cycle" bacteria is dying off. I would do a few days of water changes using Prime just to be sure all the "Cycle" bacteria is dead. Then do a large water change using Tetra's Aqua Safe water conditioner (don't use Prime because it will cause the SafeStart to fail). Then add the bottle of SafeStart.

Then wait 7 days before testing your water again. If you have zero ammonia and nitrites your cycled. If not wait three more days and test again. If you get zeros your cycled, if not the SafeStart failed.

Also after adding the SafeStart don't do any water changes or add any Prime or anything for the 7-10 days.

Good luck!

 

[queenbobby]

Ok folks you know so much!!!
thanks for all your advice

so 1) I need to sleep
2) get water tested and buy some apI liquid test kits
3) post results of water testing here
sound right so far?

if by a miracle I could ask the lfs to store the fish for me until its cycled would that help?
I know they could nt keep them for more than 2 weeks and what's to say that there water is better than mine????

 

[queenbobby]

thanks so much wish I would have come on here sooner!!!

 

[queenbobby]

just to clarify very quickly....
wait for the ammonia to reach exactly how much before doing the daily water changes for a few days (is 10% enough)?

 

[queenbobby]

thanks in advance I'm kinda sleeping on the keyboard!!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[midthought]

Ammonia should ideally be ZERO, so when you find that there *is* ammonia, you should do a water change. Same for nitrite. I'd vary the percentage changed out depending on how much you find -- find just a little, change out 20%, treat new water. If you find a lot (look at the chart), do 50% changes daily for a few days (always treat the water with conditioner). If you see zero ammonia and zero nitrite, then I would default to doing water changes depending on the nitrate (with an A). Do a maintenance change (15-25%) when your nitrates hit 20-25ppm or so.

 

[jdhef]

just to clarify very quickly....
wait for the ammonia to reach exactly how much before doing the daily water changes for a few days (is 10% enough)?

As soon as it gets above zero, start with the water changes. I would say 25% minimum, so long as your amoonia isn't above .25, anything above that and you want to go closer to 50%.

If you get the LFS to keep your fish for a few days, you could empty the tank, and refill it (using Aqua Safe for your water conditioner), put new filter media in, let it run for 24 hours, then add SafeStart and your fish.

 

[queenbobby]

HI all, thanks so much again for all your advice its soo appreciated!!!!
been to the lfs and bought a water test kit they never had the apI but I got the next best one its nutrafin master kit it was £30!! I thought that was alot!!!
never mind its probabley the most important bit of kit I have!!!

lfs checked my water... o ammonia, trace nitrite and ph 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I nearly collapsedd!!! for years I have been trying to get my ph up for malawis always getting 6.5 on my strips!!!

so been adding ph up for nothing!!!!!

at the moment have added 6 large pieces of bogwood to try and soften the water don't wanna really add chemicals if I can from now on!!!!!!!!!!

so with those results the lfs told me to hold off water changes and await resulys. he thinks that the media trasnfer may have helped?
what do you guys think as I trust you all a lot more¬!!!

 

[Meenu]

pH altering chemicals are bad news, good call not adding them anymore. Can crash a tank. There are some good links in this thread:

 

[queenbobby]

hI could it be good news or have I got it wrong again!!!

:;det
quick recap
day 1 water in 350l tank and 6 lrge pieces of bogwood
day 2 chlorine control and 1/2 bottle cycle with 3 large clown loach
day 4 added 35% filter media from other tank into filter
day 6 water checked at shop ph 8, no ammonia no nitrite. guy stated water perfect???
day 8 checked with my own water kit..(1st time)
its nutrafin so its quite generalised (ie look at colours on chart)_
nitrate 10
nitrite 0 no colour change at all
ammonia no colour chnage at all
ph between 7-7.5
all tests completed properly and times stated on instructions

I'm lost where am I in the cycling process?

 

[midthought]

Zero ammonia/nitrite with some nitrate mean that you're cycled. It sounds like you're good!

My only caveat is that you should just monitor your cycle with daily tests for a few days just to make sure that you're stable (and that ammonia and nitrite remain 0). You're no longer dosing Cycle, right? You only dosed it on day 2?

 

[queenbobby]

yes that's right... few things make me wonder though...
should I add the other 1/2 of the cycle?
also I should have seen a spike of nitrite and ammonia which I havent?>> but I only tested the water on day 6 and 8 could it have cycled that quickly?>

 

[jetajockey]

Depends a lot on the bioload as to how the spikes will go. I would avoid using cycle myself, just keep testing looks good so far

 

[queenbobby]

thanks so much...will keep an eye on the reading will test on alternate days...!
yipee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[midthought]

I'll also second jetajockey with not adding the Cycle.

Glad things are working out! It's a good feeling, heh.

 

[queenbobby]

the best!!!!!!!

 

[queenbobby]

hI do you guys think that I should add some more fish then...if I have cycled?
will def take some water for testing as I really don't trust my own readings!!!
:;br

 

[jetajockey]

if you are getting 0 ammonia readings then yes, but slowly, if possible only add them 1 at a time so that the biological filter can catch up and not be overloaded

*edit* I'm not completely sure what you have in the tank, and the tank size, are you following a basic stocking guideline?

 

[queenbobby]

thanks alot
got 350l
3 large clown loach approx 10cm each
want large fire eel
paroon shark
datniod flagtail etc

 

[queenbobby]

ok done my researchj completely wrong stocklist
here goes new
one
3 clown loaches
3 pictus catfish
small eel
reedfish
hillstream loach