Small schooling / shoaling fish that would go good with livebearer 45 gal tank?

45 gal with assorted livebearers (mollies, guppies, platys) and ghost shrimp. I am looking for a good smaller school to get that has similar water requirements. I have a LFS recommend some neon tetras, zebra danios, or harlequin rasboras. I had another retailer, who seems more knowledgable recommend lampeye killie fish, or rummynose tetras.

I am under the opinion (my newbie opinion) that the zebra danios or the lampeye would be the better of those choices, but looking at the water requirements in paper, I think that certain rasboras would be better still. However, I am in need of something better than a newbie opinion.

For the lampeye, I do not know which variety is recommended there, but by my book I see 3 options: aplocheilichthys kassenjiensis (nile lampeye), aplocheilichthys pumilus (tanganyika lampeye), and aplocheilichthys spilauchen (banded lampeye). I am going to guess they were talking the nile lampeye because I was asking for a small fish, but that's guessing, and I did not check the availability / rarity.

My 3 choices, according to what I see in the books are...

The Microrasbora rubescens (Red Dwarf 'Rasbora') looks like a good match on paper, but the hardness requirement seems even higher than the mollies, and the temp lower than the mollies, so I need an expert opinion here...

The microrasbora erythromicron (Emerald Dwarf Rasbora?) seems to have other names (Celestichthys erythromicron, Danio erythromicron) and also looks like a good match on paper, but the hardness requirement seems even higher than the mollies, and the temp lower than the mollies, so I need an expert opinion here as well...

Sawbwa resplendens (aka Naked Dwarf Rasbora, Rummy Nose Rasbora, Sawbwa Barb?) seems like maybe the best match other than a lower temp than the mollies, and I really like around 81f (or I think that I do, because I think that the mollies do, but my anabus plant does not share the same opinion).

Any expert help?

Thanks in advance!

 

Your temperature is really too high for the fish you have now. They can handle it in the short term but it will shorten their lifespans.

I would suggest danios because they also have a lower temperature requirement.

How many of each of the other kinds of fish do you have in your tank now?

 

Number 1 google answer for "best temperature for mollies" is "72 to 84 degrees Fahrenheit", and they seemed to be better at 81, although I was thinking about 80. Perhaps you would suggest lower yet? Maybe 79?

3 Black mollies, 3 babies (not their babies though, just purchased as such), 1 Gold Doubloon Molly, 1 Dalmation Lyretail Molly, 3 Platies, 5 guppies, 4 ghost shrimp, 6 moss balls, 1 anabus nano? small plant, and hopefully soon 4 more Dalmation Lyretail Mollies, 1 swordtail, and 1 blue platy, and I'll like a few more ghost shrimp (fun and seem to help clean the tank), which I will probably hit my limit or risk over stocking, so I would need the minimum 6 (which would be my stocking maximum) and small if I add a school.

Are you recommending more zebra danios or emerald dwarfs (microrasbora erythromicron aka Danio erythromicron)?

I am really having a difficult time finding alkaline hard water small schooling fish...

 

How hard is your water and what is the pH? Soft water fish can adapt to hard water, it's hard water fish that usually can't adapt to soft water.
CindiL is really good at water hardness issues!

 

Would you say that it would be better for the fish if I was to add small schooling fish that like softer water and similar temperature like some of the smaller tetras or better to add smaller schooling fish that like harder water but outside the temp (temp too high) like the two different microrasboras? It seems like that is the choice because there nothing that I can find that is really small, schooling, likes hard alkaline water around 80 degrees.

The short answer to ph and hardness question is I do not know yet...

the long answer is I am trying for ph 7.5 and hardness of 15. I say it like that because I recently changed landscape to include some "CaribSea Rubble Zone" from drs foster and smith as well as another rock, and there is a piece of mopanI drift wood, so I am testing to see how that changes the water. I understand the drift wood is suppose to go in the wrong direction, and I have no idea yet of how the aragonitic calcium carbonate rubble will affect the water chemistry, which I do not have experience with anyway. I know that we had problems with the mollies initially getting sick, then added a bit of apI liquid calcium and a pinch of instant ocean reef salt (instead of aquarium salt that most everyone recommends). I know that I do not want to use ph up and ph down products, so I figure time will tell how the rubble changes the water... regardless the attempt is to get the water as natural as possible within parameters for the black mollies and have community additions that will be comfortable with molly water, including a small school of small schooling fish.

 

If mollies have a problem with it then it may be that your hardness is lower than you think. Can you get your water chemistry information from the utilities company? They usually post their test results online!

Driftwood won't do a whole lot to lower your pH. Maybe some, but not much. If your water is already hard then the aragonite sand and rocks won't change your water chemistry much, if at all, because the pH is too high and won't cause the minerals in the rock to dissolve.

You're better off to list all the tetras that you like and chances are that if the temperature range is appropriate then they'll do fine in your water.

And just an FYI, there is no "wrong direction" for water chemistry, just like there's no "perfect pH" If you can find out all those parameters of your water as it is and post it back here then we can tell you more!

 

Hi, welcome to the forum

Would you please post your current PH, Kh and GH? I see the tank was setup in November are you cycling right now with these fish? or did you do a fishless cycle with pure ammonia?

Would you post your tanks ammonia, nitrites and nitrates also?

I think your temperature is a bit high for the livebearers and also for some of the tetras. I'd bring it down to 77-78 and if you aI'm for a GH of 12-15 I think will be fine for the livebearers and most of the tetras. I have a school of rummy nose tetras and have had them for over 6 months with my GH at 10 which seems to be ok for my platies, not so much for my guppies and the colors of the rummy noses are very vibrant. If you go up over 14-15 GH they will probably fade in color.

I'd use seriously fish website database to look up some of the fish and just find a decent general cross over of temperature and hardness.

 

I thought the forum was down until I just now tried it on another browser. It turns out that my ad blocker now causes problems, so I just turned it off for this site...

I still cannot post GH. Was waiting and waiting for kit to arrive from amazon, until we determined the whole order was lost. Ordered it again, and it arrived yesterday with the glass tubes broken (no packaging protection). Have to wait for 3rd order to arrive before can test.

Ammonia and nitrates, nitrites good. Only did high ph and it looks like 7.8.

I have since added 2 cherry shrimp, and they lost a lot of color. I am guessing that is due to my water parameters, but that is just a guess. I would guess with a good deal of confidence for a newbie that rummy nose would fade a lot in my water.

I've checked serious fish, but I don't know how much I trust their numbers on the fish because my old school type books are much less generous with the water parameter numbers...

Your initial feeling is against microrasboras? Like the celestial pearl danio or emerald dwarf?

 

Seriously fish site gives much broader water parameters than any of my books. According to all books that I have seen most common small tetras are not compatible with the water conditions that I have for the mollies (ph and hardness). On the seriously fish site, many do.

Look at the neon tetras for example versus any of your books. Makes me doubtful of their site. The only thing that I could possibly think of is that books list natural and wild preferred water parameters, and seriously fish lists water parameters for purely tank raised fish that have been so for a few generations... ?

 

Yes, I think you got it there, there are where they come from in their natural "wild" habitat which would be far different than tank bred and raised fish.

I have had no issues ever with my Rummy nose tetras, glow light tetras, bettas and they're all soft water fish in a hard water tank of 180ppm or so. I am pretty sure most tank raised fish are ok up to about 250ppm GH. The color of my rummies is spectacular.

I think what is more important is keeping a good water change schedule and I personally like to keep nitrates at a maximum of 10ppm.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I mistakenly assumed different...

My local Petco stores have several tetras 5 for $5 through January 28 2017 (1/28/17). I obviously did not check other areas/states. Just mentioning it for those looking to save a few dollars. I like my LFS, but if someone is getting a school of tetras, the savings adds up.

Too bad they do not stock rummy nose or cardinal, but they do have neon, black, black skirt, glowlight, and some others at 5 for $5.

 

I suggest Endlers. They are very colourful, hardy fish.

 

I also love endlers though they are not a schooling fish, mine do tend to hang out together though.

Maybe the black neons? I think they might be hardier than the regular neons or cardinals but not 100% sure.

 

I also love endlers though they are not a schooling fish, mine do tend to hang out together though

Yeah, mine are always chasing each other but one or two of them will often be exploring the other part of the tank away from the other fish. They kind of have their own little personalities

 

Okay, so how just about regular NEON tetras? Too incompatible (hard water with ph about 7.5) or since they are all tank bread and tank raised (no wild specimens) or would it work okay? Some people state that soft water fish more easily adapt to hard water (more abundant minerals) versus hard water fish trying to live in soft water. Anyone know if there is anything scientifically proven regarding that or is that just some "Joe" with a keyboard thoughts trying to claim to know it all 'cause it sounds logical?

The glowlight tetras are closer in water requirements, but not nearly as nice looking as neons. Same for the black ones too. Those little regular neons are very small, schooling, look great and very inexpensive ($1 ea on sale at a couple of different chain stores including Petco). When getting 10 to 15 at $1 ea versus $2-3 is a big difference. Cannot find cardinal or rummy nose around my area, but that does not matter really because water requirements are similar to regular neon tetras anyway (nor at $1).

 

Yeah I think that would work. Neon's are more sensitive fish but they were fine in my hard water tank when I had them.

The idea behind what you have read is that hard water fish cannot get enough minerals out of soft water where soft water fish can get what they need out of hard water so its more detrimental on the hard water fish as they're lacking what they require. I thinkthe truth is if parameters get too far out of wack either way it will take its toll over the long term. Not sure about proof on that though.

 

Thanks CindiL, that's what I'm going to get then!

 

I think corys would be a good choice. They are shoaling fish and really friendly torwards most fish.