Sick betta

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Don't look to good to me.. once I got home from work I see him looking kind of pale to me? (not sure if that's the right phrase to use), and immediately took them out the tank. I had some treated water with stress coat already treated so I can do a water change but since I seen them in that condition I put them back in the cups I have purchased them in. From all the reading I did it on the forums it looks like fin rot to me, and when I was transfering them out the tank and noticed a large piece of one of the bettas fin seem to look like there missing. I also noticed in the new water broken up tiny pieces of fin. What do I have to do as one betta is really showing more signs than the others. Right now I don't have an outlet to get too to purchase any meds for the poor guy I need some help to know how I can make him last through out the night.


Appearance Changes: white spots over face and eyes some on body and fins breaking
behavior Changes: has nose out of cup and gasps for air goes to the bottom of the cup and repeats
Eating Habits: not eating
Other: very lethargic

WATER STATS
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrate: 5.0
Nitrite: 1.0
pH: 7.6
Hardness: not to sure what this means...
Alkalinity: don't have a tester for.
Time you noticed the illness: 1am I left for work at 2pm seemed fine.

TANK
Size:2.5 gallons
Temp: 82
Filtration/Aeration: bio pro bio filtering on the lowest it can run.


HUSBANDRY PRACTICES
Frequency of Tank Cleaning: 5-7 days
Water Additives: betta plus, ammo lock 1.25ml, 1 tea spoon aquarium salt, nutrafin cycle
Feeding (food type/frequency): betta bio-gold baby pellets, hikarI brine shrimp bio capsulated with multI vitamins
Tank Mates: divided tank 3 slots, in each 1 betta, 1 albino cory, 1 neon.

TREATMENT
Any treatment so far and when: just noticed and no stores are open to go get anything..

HISTORY
List any past health problems: I treated them once for ich made a full recovery
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Well hello there justloco.

Your tank water parameters are not good to be honest I'm afraid. The ideal conditions should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and between 5 & 20 nitrates. Immediately do a 50% water change with Prime if you can find it and continue this every day until the parameters are as I explained. Also bettas do not do well with salt, so please do not add any more.

Please also stop using Cycle, this product is not the best to cycle a tank as it all dies off when you stop using it, so really you are spending money on this for not a lot (I made the same mistake, so don't worry!).

As the ammonia is so high, this is causing most of the probs... You will be surprised what a good water change every day will do for him at this time. At the moment this is the best care you can provide for him.
I don't havwe much time at the moment to go into more detail, but start the water changes and I'll be back later to help if you have not had more responses before then, OK!
(I'm at work, need to pretend like I'm doing my job lol!)

Best of luck, I'll keep an eye out here for you.
 

midthought

Well Known
Member
Messages
601
The number one thing you can and should do for your fish is to keep it in clean water. Do you have pictures so that someone can confirm it's fin rot? If you do start treating for fin rot, please note that the medication Melafix is NOT safe for bettas, as it hurts the labryinth organ. Please see the links below:


https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/list-of-betta-meds-for-betta-disease.16170/ (includes fin rot meds right at the top)

I believe this was linked and explained in your prior post, but you can read more about the nitrogen cycle here: https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm. Ideal water conditions are zero ammonia and zero nitrite; anything above zero is considered toxic. Now, you're using Ammo-lock, which I believe works by turning toxic ammonia into ammonium. However, the ammonium turns back into ammonia in 24 hours. So are you doing the ammonia test within 24 hours of dosing Ammo-lock? Because 4 is rather high.

You state that you clean the tank every 5-7 days. Do you mean that's how often you do partial water changes? It's much better for your fish if you do 25-50% water changes *everyday*. Your tank being so small, toxins (ammonia and nitrite particularly) build up very fast.

Also, why are you using aquarium salt and how often are you dosing it? Bettas and neons don't need salt and it's usually outright harmful to cories.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Tigerfishy said:
Well hello there justloco.

Your tank water parameters are not good to be honest I'm afraid. The ideal conditions should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and between 5 & 20 nitrates. Immediately do a 50% water change with Prime if you can find it and continue this every day until the parameters are as I explained. Also bettas do not do well with salt, so please do not add any more.

Please also stop using Cycle, this product is not the best to cycle a tank as it all dies off when you stop using it, so really you are spending money on this for not a lot (I made the same mistake, so don't worry!).

As the ammonia is so high, this is causing most of the probs... You will be surprised what a good water change every day will do for him at this time. At the moment this is the best care you can provide for him.
I don't havwe much time at the moment to go into more detail, but start the water changes and I'll be back later to help if you have not had more responses before then, OK!
(I'm at work, need to pretend like I'm doing my job lol!)

Best of luck, I'll keep an eye out here for you.
Heh that's what got me into this mess in the first place was work.. If I was able to be home I might have caught what was going on.. but hey what can ya do..

But once I got home. I put them all in separated cups in some water I had treated with stress coat. Should I be using something different to get the water ready with?

Although its not the best for them I only have cups they came in, which are about 8oz if that.. I don't have all the extra necessities to put them in something larger at the moment. I have 3 Betta's in a 2.5 gallon tank divided so I'm worried about the other guys too. I see a little amount of fin rot on one and some curled tips on the other guy. So basically all 3 are sick. I guess the one that got sick initially got the other sick also but the others aren't no where as bad as the one I'm mentioning here.

Also the other day I added some ammo lock as my readings we're kind of high, recommended by the guy I brought the fish from. After that is when things went for the worst I guess you can say, I had them for over a month now and everything seemed okay until I added the ammo lock. Is this something common with ammo lock or is it just because of the conditions of the water or can both played a part? I usually changed the water every 5-7 days.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Lol, what can you do!!

3 bettas in a 2.5g tank is very small, ideally they should have at least 2.5 g each, 5 gallon is better however (Or get a 10 gallon and divide it 3 ways?). I would keep them in the tank rather than their cups, it is marginally better, but do the water changes every 24 hours as I mentioned before.

You should think about upgrading if poss, the small space combined with the water is stressing them out, making them even more susceptible to weaknesses as you're experiencing just now. Stress Coat is good too, but try find Prime or Amquel+ for the water changes. I use Prime, but I am limited to what I can get in the UK in terms of products mentioned here.

EDIT: Check this out and https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/list-of-betta-meds-for-betta-disease.16170/
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
midthought said:
The number one thing you can and should do for your fish is to keep it in clean water. Do you have pictures so that someone can confirm it's fin rot? If you do start treating for fin rot, please note that the medication Melafix is NOT safe for bettas, as it hurts the labryinth organ. Please see the links below:


https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/list-of-betta-meds-for-betta-disease.16170/ (includes fin rot meds right at the top)

I believe this was linked and explained in your prior post, but you can read more about the nitrogen cycle here: https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm. Ideal water conditions are zero ammonia and zero nitrite; anything above zero is considered toxic. Now, you're using Ammo-lock, which I believe works by turning toxic ammonia into ammonium. However, the ammonium turns back into ammonia in 24 hours. So are you doing the ammonia test within 24 hours of dosing Ammo-lock? Because 4 is rather high.

You state that you clean the tank every 5-7 days. Do you mean that's how often you do partial water changes? It's much better for your fish if you do 25-50% water changes *everyday*. Your tank being so small, toxins (ammonia and nitrite particularly) build up very fast.

Also, why are you using aquarium salt and how often are you dosing it? Bettas and neons don't need salt and it's usually outright harmful to cories.
Well I put the aquarium salt in just as I did a complete water change being that the ammonia levels were so high. I can upload a pic. I will after I post this. Not to sure what was the time frame between the test I believe it might have been in a 24 hour period or maybe a little longer than 24 hours. I actually haven't done a partial water change yet as every time I go to change the water I see it to have a lot of fish waste and some uneaten food as I try very hard not to over feed. I will start doing 50 percent changes everyday for now on.

I also just purchased a 10 gallon fish tank to start cycling so the Betta's can have more room for themselves and to have a acquaint amount of water. I plan to get another so I can keep 3 in each tank. I don't think I will be putting the neons or the corys back and might just keep them in the smaller tanks.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Tigerfishy said:
Lol, what can you do!!

3 bettas in a 2.5g tank is very small, ideally they should have at least 2.5 g each, 5 gallon is better however (Or get a 10 gallon and divide it 3 ways?). I would keep them in the tank rather than their cups, it is marginally better, but do the water changes every 24 hours as I mentioned before.
So its safe for me to put them together again? From what I've read its very contagious fin rot and I'm already seeing signs on the other guys. Sorry for all the questons, I'm just very concerned about these guys.

I will post a pic just give me a couple mins. Thanks guys.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
If they all already have it, which they probably do, then you're better to keep them together and combat this all in one go. You will honestly be surprised to see what some good water conditions can do for the little boys.

Good plan on upgrading by the way, they will be so much happier, and I have 3 in a 10 gallon too!!

EDIT: I was rereading my post now I have a break, and I never made it clear that you only have to do a water change every day UNTIL the tank cycles and the parameters are as I described. After this, a 25% weekly change should be sufficient. Remove all waste and uneaten food. Try to remove the food after a max of 3 mins if they do not eat it, this will pollute the water otherwise and can cause a mini-cycle which will lead to more daily water changes until it's over again.
 

midthought

Well Known
Member
Messages
601
justloco said:
I actually haven't done a partial water change yet as every time I go to change the water I see it to have a lot of fish waste and some uneaten food as I try very hard not to over feed. I will start doing 50 percent changes everyday for now on.
I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. You haven't (hadn't?) been doing partial water changes because there was a lot of fish waste and uneaten food in the water? Do you mean you've been doing 100% water changes or no water changes?

The fish will feel better with fresh water, and I'm glad you're moving them into larger quarters. A 10 gallon divided 3-ways is much more humane, and your fish will make better pets that way.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
midthought said:
I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. You haven't (hadn't?) been doing partial water changes because there was a lot of fish waste and uneaten food in the water? Do you mean you've been doing 100% water changes or no water changes?
Sorry I meant that I been doing 100 percent water changes every 5-7 days.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Thanks for posting, but I'm not able to see the pics, it might just be my work server, but usually I can get the pics & vds posted here fine.

I just noticed how early you guys are up! It's hard to keep track when I'm across the pond, but wow, that's early lol
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Tigerfishy said:
Thanks for posting, but I'm not able to see the pics, it might just be my work server, but usually I can get the pics & vds posted here fine.

I just noticed how early you guys are up! It's hard to keep track when I'm across the pond, but wow, that's early lol

Sorry it was the way I was linking them. I fixed it now. Plus I haven't slept because of my betta.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Got 'em, thanks a million!!

I was the same one time, I had just got a new betta and couldn't sleep all night as he was in a temp accommodation till morning!

I can see what you mean by his fins. I know I'm suggesting a lot, but if you can find Vita-Chem, grab it. It is the most amazing product, one of my must-haves to be honest. It is a totally natural product, but is very good for fin regeneration, and can speed it up (I'm using it to help a long finned danio regrow his tail just now, working perfectly so far!!). It won't work overnight, but if one of my bettas tails has little tears they heal up in a couple days with it.

EDIT: quick recap, to keep me on track as well haha!
1=Daily water changes with Prime or Amquel+ until tank cycles
2=Stress Coat can be used
3=Vita-Chem, if found is a great addition to this regime. Add a couple drops per day until healed. All you will need!
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Tigerfishy said:
Got 'em, thanks a million!!

I was the same one time, I had just got a new betta and couldn't sleep all night as he was in a temp accommodation till morning!

I can see what you mean by his fins. I know I'm suggesting a lot, but if you can find Vita-Chem, grab it. It is the most amazing product, one of my must-haves to be honest. It is a totally natural product, but is very good for fin regeneration, and can speed it up (I'm using it to help a long finned danio regrow his tail just now, working perfectly so far!!). It won't work overnight, but if one of my bettas tails has little tears they heal up in a couple days with it.

EDIT: quick recap, to keep me on track as well haha!
1=Daily water changes with Prime or Amquel+ until tank cycles
2=Stress Coat can be used
3=Vita-Chem, if found is a great addition to this regime. Add a couple drops per day until healed. All you will need!
Okay so I just want to get this right. Use Prime or Amquel+ along with stress coat or either or? and I got the part to use Vita-Chem. Now should I use the tank I had them in? Just use hot water to clean the gravel and such?

Once again thanks guys, I don't know what I would do without ya, now I can get a little sleep, literally. I will be up as soon as the pet store opens.
 

midthought

Well Known
Member
Messages
601
I'm not sure about Amquel+, but I know that Prime already has a stress coat additive so an extra one is not strictly necessary. Definitely just change out water when you can, especially when it's dirty -- unfortunately the way it goes is that the smallest tanks require the most maintenance (which few people realize). In the smallest cups, you're talking about huge water changes (in percentage anyway) everyday. If I were you and didn't have time for the fresh water, I would at least dose the Prime/Amquel+ directly into the tank.

Hot water is safest to clean your tank, as in it's hard to screw it up. You have to clean and rinse *really* well if you want to use a 1:19 bleach solution or 30% vinegar solution (*never bleach and vinegar together*).

I do hope your fish start feeling better soon. It's these early mistakes that are the toughest spots to get through, for owner and pet both.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
You can use both together, Stress Coat has aloe in it, also slightly healing and calming. If you're only gonna use 1, go for either the Prime or Amquel+.

You can just use that tank again. Rinse everything in water (used tank water if poss) and just begin the regime. No need to use hot water, There may be some good bacteria already in the gravel which you'll want to keep so a quick rinse in used tank water will be sufficient for now.
 

midthought

Well Known
Member
Messages
601
Oh yes, agreed with Tigerfishy about the good bacteria in the gravel. I'm just answering somewhat mechanically because it's very late. I'm actually going to finally get some sleep in a minute. Cleaning very thoroughly wouldn't be a terrible idea if you wanted to were battling ich or a fungus and you want to move a new fish into that tank, I'd imagine, but especially if you're just moving the same fish to a bigger tank, a huge sanitizing is liable to hurt your beneficial bacteria population more than anything else.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
midthought, I'm so amazed you're still awake and so coherent! At that time in the morning (in fact just now at 10.30) I'm still dazed and saying any old thing!!!
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
midthought said:
Hot water is safest to clean your tank, as in it's hard to screw it up. You have to clean and rinse *really* well if you want to use a 1:19 bleach solution or 30% vinegar solution (*never bleach and vinegar together*).

I do hope your fish start feeling better soon. It's these early mistakes that are the toughest spots to get through, for owner and pet both.
Yea I think I will just use hot water, I feel like I screwed up enough already.

I just wanna be on the safe side for now and clean all the gravel throughly make sure nothing is left behind and start up the new tank for now. I will continue to make 50 percent water changes everyday.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
OK, if you're gonna use this method, then it's more than likely that the cycle is going to be pushed back for a while. Do not wash your filter sponge or the media though, you need to save all the bacteria you can for now or you will be right back to the start of the cycle as if you had done nothing before.

You have an action plan now though, you will be doing the best you can possibly do for your bettas and things will pick up soon, OK?!

(Here's a freebie tip for you as you're so tired and worried: When you move them to the 10 gallon tank, use the filter media you have already to help seed the new tank, the cycle will be a ton quicker that way especially if it gets fully cycled before you upgrade! )
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #22
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Tigerfishy said:
OK, if you're gonna use this method, then it's more than likely that the cycle is going to be pushed back for a while. Do not wash your filter sponge or the media though, you need to save all the bacteria you can for now or you will be right back to the start of the cycle as if you had done nothing before.

You have an action plan now though, you will be doing the best you can possibly do for your bettas and things will pick up soon, OK?!

(Here's a freebie tip for you as you're so tired and worried: When you move them to the 10 gallon tank, use the filter media you have already to help seed the new tank, the cycle will be a ton quicker that way especially if it gets fully cycled before you upgrade! )
Yea I have more of a understanding now thanks to you guys.


Sadly the little buy didn't make it though the night. But I still went to petland to get the triple sulfa as I seen mouth fungus when he passed. very hard to find the Vita-Chem out here. I don't know why.. I can find everything you don't need for the betta's.. Go figure.. I am worried of the others really getting sick also. So is it safe to treat them both in the same tank?
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
sorry to hear this . If they were all in the same tank then they will already have been exposed so maybe treating isn't a bad idea, but with fungus, I've never had it with a betta. I'm sure on the betta med list I posted earlier, you will find some betta safe ideas.

I know over here in the UK that I have to get Vita-Chem online, and a lot of the US guys have to get it online too. Try eBay, I saw loads listed there yesterday in the US in different sizes. You can use the freshwater or marine stuff, I use the marine stuff as it was the only version I could find over here.

EDIT: Triple Sulfa is on the list, and Jungle fungus is also there, I understand the Jungle products work well as they are quite weak so do not harm the fish as much. It's up to you, but keep a very close eye on them if you're medicating and changing water daily. Every water change will remove some medication but you must keep up the daily changes so no ammonia poisoning occurs. Just be careful not to overmedicate.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Wow garlic huh? Interesting. So does the bettas have to eat the garlic? I'm kinda confused over here.

When using the triple sulfa am I not supposed use the filters? I moved all the other guys to a separate tank the neons and corys. I have the other 2 bettas back in the divided tank, I Also have the filter on. Sorry if I'm asking repeated questions i'm just very confused at this point.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Yes it helps greatly because i'm going to change the water now. Would it just be better not to use the fliter and just use the heaters?

Once again thanks!
 

midthought

Well Known
Member
Messages
601
I'd keep the filters on and just remove the carbon. Maybe someone else could chime in, but I think that's what I'd do.
 

Lucy

Moderator
Moderator
Member
Messages
45,687
Welcome to FishLore!!
I'm sorry you lost your betta and this little guy isn't well.
What are your water readings today?
I noticed your ammonia was quite toxic on the 22nd.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Justloco, always keep the filters on. I personally do not use carbon at all, but that's personal preference. It will be perfectly fine to run them without!

As Lucy says, what's your readings for today? Are they looking better?
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #33
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
pH 6.6
ammonia .25
temp 80

I'm doing daily water changes, well now I am. So on the back of the medication it says to do a water change every third day, now I'm just not sure if its a full or partial change, I also wanted to say they are glass partitions in the tank and I'm not to sure if the water is filtering correctly. Is it better to just take out the filter while I am treating them? I already took out the white cotton like filter.

I hope he gets well. I've been losing lots of sleep over this
 

Aquagirl1978

Well Known
Member
Messages
795
Justloco, I know the feeling I have lost 3 bettas in a week 2 males from a still unknown ailment and a female this morning with no symptoms. I wasn't lucky enough to catch it in time the fish were fine at 6 am and dead or well on their way by evening. Good Luck with treating the little guys!!
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #35
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
I know what you mean. They we're all fine 3-4 days ago full of life and like over night they took a turn for the worst. This is my first time owning Betta's and did think they're so hard to take care of.. The guy where I purchased them from gave me all the wrong info on how to take care of them. Wanna hear the funny thing, I ask him which tanks would be good for them he points to the 25 dollar 2.5 tanks. I called him yesterday just to see how much he would say for a 10 gallon tank he tells me 16 dollars.. That really P'ed me off. I could of avoided all this with a 10 gallon tank and some DIY separations..
 

midthought

Well Known
Member
Messages
601
justloco said:
I know what you mean. They we're all fine 3-4 days ago full of life and like over night they took a turn for the worst. This is my first time owning Betta's and did think they're so hard to take care of.. The guy where I purchased them from gave me all the wrong info on how to take care of them. Wanna hear the funny thing, I ask him which tanks would be good for them he points to the 25 dollar 2.5 tanks. I called him yesterday just to see how much he would say for a 10 gallon tank he tells me 16 dollars.. That really P'ed me off. I could of avoided all this with a 10 gallon tank and some DIY separations..
Oh that really sucks. I hope you can throw your money around to other stores who are less slimy.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Leave the divider in, the bettas cannot be in together no matter what! Keep up the daily changes, you are in the first stages of the cycle. You'll get nitrites soon, then you're on your way. Once you have nitrites, Nitrates will follow. Then you will have Amm=0, nitrites=0, nitrates can be any number. When this day appears, laugh and cheer, change 25% (roughly) water, and you're all set up and the daily water changes end...
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #38
OP
J

justloco

New Member
Member
Messages
18
Tigerfishy said:
Leave the divider in, the bettas cannot be in together no matter what! Keep up the daily changes, you are in the first stages of the cycle. You'll get nitrites soon, then you're on your way. Once you have nitrites, Nitrates will follow. Then you will have Amm=0, nitrites=0, nitrates can be any number. When this day appears, laugh and cheer, change 25% (roughly) water, and you're all set up and the daily water changes end...
Well the dividers are in the only thing is that water kinda goes through you have to slide them in. Does it still mattter?

I actually just got the vita-chem. Picked up amqel+, and the clear ammonia, and the guy suggested that I get methylene blue and said I should pre-treat the gravel for my other tank for 4 days before I do the cycling process. Does this sound right to you guys?
 

Shiba

Active Member
Member
Messages
132
I'd put them in the ten gallon to cycle faster and it'll be mor water than the small one for each fish and the small tank isn't cycle in the first place.
Stop doing full water changes for sure and just treat as told above.
 

Tigerfishy

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
If you do actually have the 10Gal now, you can put them in there with the divider of course, but you do have to know that now your cycle will be starting from scratch if you clean and medicate the gravel. Cycling with the 25% water change every day method we discussed is the only safe way to cycle with the fish in the tank, and also they are being medicated. It will be hard on them, but be very diligent about water changes and not overmedicating and you give them the best chance.

This cycling can take between a few weeks to a couple of months, but be patient and your fish will thank you and be healthy. Please just be careful with all the meds, but if you're treating the fish, the gravel will also be getting treated anyway at the same time so I'm not sure why he suggested treating it before you do the fish, it would work the same if you do everything at once and get you started immediately with treatment and cycling (which is the priority here).
 

New Threads

Similar Threads

Similar Threads

Follow FishLore!

FishLore on Social Media

Online statistics

Members online
188
Guests online
3,292
Total visitors
3,480

Aquarium Photo Contests

Aquarium Calculator

Top Bottom