Important Sick betta

justloco

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Don't look to good to me.. once I got home from work I see him looking kind of pale to me? (not sure if thats the right phrase to use), and immediately took them out the tank. I had some treated water with stress coat already treated so I can do a water change but since I seen them in that condition I put them back in the cups I have purchased them in. From all the reading I did it on the forums it looks like fin rot to me, and when I was transfering them out the tank and noticed a large piece of one of the bettas fin seem to look like there missing. I also noticed in the new water broken up tiny pieces of fin. What do I have to do as one betta is really showing more signs than the others. Right now I don't have an outlet to get too to purchase any meds for the poor guy I need some help to know how I can make him last through out the night.


Appearance Changes: white spots over face and eyes some on body and fins breaking
behavior Changes: has nose out of cup and gasps for air goes to the bottom of the cup and repeats
Eating Habits: not eating
Other: very lethargic

WATER STATS
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrate: 5.0
Nitrite: 1.0
pH: 7.6
Hardness: not to sure what this means...
Alkalinity: don't have a tester for.
Time you noticed the illness: 1am I left for work at 2pm seemed fine.

TANK
Size:2.5 gallons
Temp: 82
Filtration/Aeration: bio pro bio filtering on the lowest it can run.


HUSBANDRY PRACTICES
Frequency of Tank Cleaning: 5-7 days
Water Additives: betta plus, ammo lock 1.25ml, 1 tea spoon aquarium salt, nutrafin cycle
Feeding (food type/frequency): betta bio-gold baby pellets, hikari brine shrimp bio capsulated with multi vitamins
Tank Mates: divided tank 3 slots, in each 1 betta, 1 albino cory, 1 neon.

TREATMENT
Any treatment so far and when: just noticed and no stores are open to go get anything..

HISTORY
List any past health problems: I treated them once for ich made a full recovery
 

Tigerfishy

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Well hello there justloco.

Your tank water parameters are not good to be honest I'm afraid. The ideal conditions should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and between 5 & 20 nitrates. Immediately do a 50% water change with Prime if you can find it and continue this every day until the parameters are as I explained. Also bettas do not do well with salt, so please do not add any more.

Please also stop using Cycle, this product is not the best to cycle a tank as it all dies off when you stop using it, so really you are spending money on this for not a lot (I made the same mistake, so don't worry!).

As the ammonia is so high, this is causing most of the probs... You will be surprised what a good water change every day will do for him at this time. At the moment this is the best care you can provide for him.
I don't havwe much time at the moment to go into more detail, but start the water changes and I'll be back later to help if you have not had more responses before then, OK!
(I'm at work, need to pretend like I'm doing my job lol!)

Best of luck, I'll keep an eye out here for you.
 

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The number one thing you can and should do for your fish is to keep it in clean water. Do you have pictures so that someone can confirm it's fin rot? If you do start treating for fin rot, please note that the medication Melafix is NOT safe for bettas, as it hurts the labryinth organ. Please see the links below:


https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/list-of-betta-meds-for-betta-disease.16170/ (includes fin rot meds right at the top)

I believe this was linked and explained in your prior post, but you can read more about the nitrogen cycle here: https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm. Ideal water conditions are zero ammonia and zero nitrite; anything above zero is considered toxic. Now, you're using Ammo-lock, which I believe works by turning toxic ammonia into ammonium. However, the ammonium turns back into ammonia in 24 hours. So are you doing the ammonia test within 24 hours of dosing Ammo-lock? Because 4 is rather high.

You state that you clean the tank every 5-7 days. Do you mean that's how often you do partial water changes? It's much better for your fish if you do 25-50% water changes *everyday*. Your tank being so small, toxins (ammonia and nitrite particularly) build up very fast.

Also, why are you using aquarium salt and how often are you dosing it? Bettas and neons don't need salt and it's usually outright harmful to cories.
 
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justloco

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Well hello there justloco.

Your tank water parameters are not good to be honest I'm afraid. The ideal conditions should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and between 5 & 20 nitrates. Immediately do a 50% water change with Prime if you can find it and continue this every day until the parameters are as I explained. Also bettas do not do well with salt, so please do not add any more.

Please also stop using Cycle, this product is not the best to cycle a tank as it all dies off when you stop using it, so really you are spending money on this for not a lot (I made the same mistake, so don't worry!).

As the ammonia is so high, this is causing most of the probs... You will be surprised what a good water change every day will do for him at this time. At the moment this is the best care you can provide for him.
I don't havwe much time at the moment to go into more detail, but start the water changes and I'll be back later to help if you have not had more responses before then, OK!
(I'm at work, need to pretend like I'm doing my job lol!)

Best of luck, I'll keep an eye out here for you.
Heh thats what got me into this mess in the first place was work.. If I was able to be home I might have caught what was going on.. but hey what can ya do..

But once I got home. I put them all in separated cups in some water I had treated with stress coat. Should I be using something different to get the water ready with?

Although its not the best for them I only have cups they came in, which are about 8oz if that.. I don't have all the extra necessities to put them in something larger at the moment. I have 3 Betta's in a 2.5 gallon tank divided so I'm worried about the other guys too. I see a little amount of fin rot on one and some curled tips on the other guy. So basically all 3 are sick. I guess the one that got sick initially got the other sick also but the others aren't no where as bad as the one I'm mentioning here.

Also the other day I added some ammo lock as my readings we're kind of high, recommended by the guy I brought the fish from. After that is when things went for the worst I guess you can say, I had them for over a month now and everything seemed okay untill I added the ammo lock. Is this something common with ammo lock or is it just because of the conditions of the water or can both played a part? I usually changed the water every 5-7 days.
 

Tigerfishy

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Lol, what can you do!!

3 bettas in a 2.5g tank is very small, ideally they should have at least 2.5 g each, 5g is better however (Or get a 10g and divide it 3 ways?). I would keep them in the tank rather than their cups, it is marginally better, but do the water changes every 24 hours as I mentioned before.

You should think about upgrading if poss, the small space combined with the water is stressing them out, making them even more susceptible to weaknesses as you're experiencing just now. Stress Coat is good too, but try find Prime or Amquel+ for the water changes. I use Prime, but I am limited to what I can get in the UK in terms of products mentioned here.

EDIT: Check this out https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/4-of-the-best-products-if-cycling-with-fish.61238/ and https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/list-of-betta-meds-for-betta-disease.16170/
 
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justloco

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The number one thing you can and should do for your fish is to keep it in clean water. Do you have pictures so that someone can confirm it's fin rot? If you do start treating for fin rot, please note that the medication Melafix is NOT safe for bettas, as it hurts the labryinth organ. Please see the links below:


https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/list-of-betta-meds-for-betta-disease.16170/ (includes fin rot meds right at the top)

I believe this was linked and explained in your prior post, but you can read more about the nitrogen cycle here: https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm. Ideal water conditions are zero ammonia and zero nitrite; anything above zero is considered toxic. Now, you're using Ammo-lock, which I believe works by turning toxic ammonia into ammonium. However, the ammonium turns back into ammonia in 24 hours. So are you doing the ammonia test within 24 hours of dosing Ammo-lock? Because 4 is rather high.

You state that you clean the tank every 5-7 days. Do you mean that's how often you do partial water changes? It's much better for your fish if you do 25-50% water changes *everyday*. Your tank being so small, toxins (ammonia and nitrite particularly) build up very fast.

Also, why are you using aquarium salt and how often are you dosing it? Bettas and neons don't need salt and it's usually outright harmful to cories.
Well I put the aquarium salt in just as i did a complete water change being that the ammonia levels were so high. I can upload a pic. I will after I post this. Not to sure what was the time frame between the test I believe it might have been in a 24 hour period or maybe a little longer than 24 hours. I actually haven't done a partial water change yet as every time I go to change the water I see it to have a lot of fish waste and some uneaten food as I try very hard not to over feed. I will start doing 50 percent changes everyday for now on.

I also just purchased a 10 gallon fish tank to start cycling so the Betta's can have more room for themselves and to have a acquaint amount of water. I plan to get another so I can keep 3 in each tank. I don't think I will be putting the neons or the corys back and might just keep them in the smaller tanks.
 
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justloco

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Lol, what can you do!!

3 bettas in a 2.5g tank is very small, ideally they should have at least 2.5 g each, 5g is better however (Or get a 10g and divide it 3 ways?). I would keep them in the tank rather than their cups, it is marginally better, but do the water changes every 24 hours as I mentioned before.
So its safe for me to put them together again? From what I've read its very contagious fin rot and I'm already seeing signs on the other guys. Sorry for all the questons, I'm just very concerned about these guys.

I will post a pic just give me a couple mins. Thanks guys.
 

Tigerfishy

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If they all already have it, which they probably do, then you're better to keep them together and combat this all in one go. You will honestly be surprised to see what some good water conditions can do for the little boys.

Good plan on upgrading by the way, they will be so much happier, and I have 3 in a 10g too!!

EDIT: I was rereading my post now I have a break, and I never made it clear that you only have to do a water change every day UNTIL the tank cycles and the parameters are as I described. After this, a 25% weekly change should be sufficient. Remove all waste and uneaten food. Try to remove the food after a max of 3 mins if they do not eat it, this will pollute the water otherwise and can cause a mini-cycle which will lead to more daily water changes until it's over again.
 

midthought

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I actually haven't done a partial water change yet as every time I go to change the water I see it to have a lot of fish waste and some uneaten food as I try very hard not to over feed. I will start doing 50 percent changes everyday for now on.
I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. You haven't (hadn't?) been doing partial water changes because there was a lot of fish waste and uneaten food in the water? Do you mean you've been doing 100% water changes or no water changes?

The fish will feel better with fresh water, and I'm glad you're moving them into larger quarters. A 10 gallon divided 3-ways is much more humane, and your fish will make better pets that way.
 
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justloco

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I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. You haven't (hadn't?) been doing partial water changes because there was a lot of fish waste and uneaten food in the water? Do you mean you've been doing 100% water changes or no water changes?
Sorry I meant that I been doing 100 percent water changes every 5-7 days.
 

Tigerfishy

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Thanks for posting, but I'm not able to see the pics, it might just be my work server, but usually I can get the pics & vds posted here fine.

I just noticed how early you guys are up! It's hard to keep track when I'm across the pond, but wow, that's early lol
 
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justloco

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Thanks for posting, but I'm not able to see the pics, it might just be my work server, but usually I can get the pics & vds posted here fine.

I just noticed how early you guys are up! It's hard to keep track when I'm across the pond, but wow, that's early lol

Sorry it was the way I was linking them. I fixed it now. Plus I haven't slept because of my betta.
 

Tigerfishy

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Got 'em, thanks a million!!

I was the same one time, I had just got a new betta and couldn't sleep all night as he was in a temp accommodation till morning!

I can see what you mean by his fins. I know I'm suggesting a lot, but if you can find Vita-Chem, grab it. It is the most amazing product, one of my must-haves to be honest. It is a totally natural product, but is very good for fin regeneration, and can speed it up (I'm using it to help a long finned danio regrow his tail just now, working perfectly so far!!). It won't work overnight, but if one of my bettas tails has little tears they heal up in a couple days with it.

EDIT: quick recap, to keep me on track as well haha!
1=Daily water changes with Prime or Amquel+ until tank cycles
2=Stress Coat can be used
3=Vita-Chem, if found is a great addition to this regime. Add a couple drops per day until healed. All you will need!
 
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justloco

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Got 'em, thanks a million!!

I was the same one time, I had just got a new betta and couldn't sleep all night as he was in a temp accommodation till morning!

I can see what you mean by his fins. I know I'm suggesting a lot, but if you can find Vita-Chem, grab it. It is the most amazing product, one of my must-haves to be honest. It is a totally natural product, but is very good for fin regeneration, and can speed it up (I'm using it to help a long finned danio regrow his tail just now, working perfectly so far!!). It won't work overnight, but if one of my bettas tails has little tears they heal up in a couple days with it.

EDIT: quick recap, to keep me on track as well haha!
1=Daily water changes with Prime or Amquel+ until tank cycles
2=Stress Coat can be used
3=Vita-Chem, if found is a great addition to this regime. Add a couple drops per day until healed. All you will need!
Okay so I just want to get this right. Use Prime or Amquel+ along with stress coat or either or? and I got the part to use Vita-Chem. Now should I use the tank I had them in? Just use hot water to clean the gravel and such?

Once again thanks guys, I don't know what I would do without ya, now I can get a little sleep, literally. I will be up as soon as the pet store opens.
 

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I'm not sure about Amquel+, but I know that Prime already has a stress coat additive so an extra one is not strictly necessary. Definitely just change out water when you can, especially when it's dirty -- unfortunately the way it goes is that the smallest tanks require the most maintenance (which few people realize). In the smallest cups, you're talking about huge water changes (in percentage anyway) everyday. If I were you and didn't have time for the fresh water, I would at least dose the Prime/Amquel+ directly into the tank.

Hot water is safest to clean your tank, as in it's hard to screw it up. You have to clean and rinse *really* well if you want to use a 1:19 bleach solution or 30% vinegar solution (*never bleach and vinegar together*).

I do hope your fish start feeling better soon. It's these early mistakes that are the toughest spots to get through, for owner and pet both.
 

Tigerfishy

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You can use both together, Stress Coat has aloe in it, also slightly healing and calming. If you're only gonna use 1, go for either the Prime or Amquel+.

You can just use that tank again. Rinse everything in water (used tank water if poss) and just begin the regime. No need to use hot water, There may be some good bacteria already in the gravel which you'll want to keep so a quick rinse in used tank water will be sufficient for now.
 

midthought

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Oh yes, agreed with Tigerfishy about the good bacteria in the gravel. I'm just answering somewhat mechanically because it's very late. I'm actually going to finally get some sleep in a minute. Cleaning very thoroughly wouldn't be a terrible idea if you wanted to were battling ich or a fungus and you want to move a new fish into that tank, I'd imagine, but especially if you're just moving the same fish to a bigger tank, a huge sanitizing is liable to hurt your beneficial bacteria population more than anything else.
 

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midthought, I'm so amazed you're still awake and so coherent! At that time in the morning (in fact just now at 10.30) I'm still dazed and saying any old thing!!!
 
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justloco

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Hot water is safest to clean your tank, as in it's hard to screw it up. You have to clean and rinse *really* well if you want to use a 1:19 bleach solution or 30% vinegar solution (*never bleach and vinegar together*).

I do hope your fish start feeling better soon. It's these early mistakes that are the toughest spots to get through, for owner and pet both.
Yea I think I will just use hot water, I feel like I screwed up enough already.

I just wanna be on the safe side for now and clean all the gravel throughly make sure nothing is left behind and start up the new tank for now. I will continue to make 50 percent water changes everyday.
 
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