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Sick Angel - Possibly Parasite?

  1. j

    jamielands New Member Member

    Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice to see if I can save my favorite angelfish, Johnny. I have had him two years now. He was continually staying at the surface, not exactly gasping, but keeping his mouth right up there. No other fish were doing it, but I checked water quality first (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates were a little over 20ppm, so i did a few PWC to bring that down). He continued hovering at the surface, then he began alternating between hovering and laying on the bottom in the plants. Yesterday when he was lying at the bottom I noticed his coloring looked funny on his underside, almost brownish patches, maybe reddish? Its hard to tell as he's a black marble. I thought maybe he was injured by the other angel in the tank. Then when he went up to the surface I noticed white stringy poop coming out of him. I removed him to QT. Now he is in QT and lying on his side on the bottom. he will get up and swim if i disturb him but otherwise he's lying flat. I'm looking for any advice for what I can try to treat him with, or if he is too far gone (i hope not!)

    tank info:
    60 gallon
    heavily planted
    fluval 406
    aqua clear 50
    small powerhead
    airstone

    2 male angels
    3 yoyo loaches
    5 black molly
    1 bristlenose pleco (juvenile, very small)

    ammonia: 0
    nitrite: 0
    nitrate: 10ppm
    ph: 7.4

    Any advice would be appreciated, he's my favorite fish and I'm so bummed.
     
  2. tetratetris

    tetratetris Valued Member Member

    Maybe its simply old age?

    Was he young or more adult when you got him? Two years is a good time if he was an adult it could just be time.

    I only now of fish at the bottom with swim bladder disorder.

    I don't know very much


    Sorry about the situation :(
     


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  3. OP
    OP
    j

    jamielands New Member Member

    Thanks for the reply. I’m not sure, he wasn’t very small when I got him, but I think he still should have had a few more good years.
     


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  4. bizaliz3

    bizaliz3 Fishlore Legend Member

    If there was white poop, then it is definitely illness. Some kind of internal parasite or something.

    2 years is nowhere near old age for an angelfish!

    Gasping at the surface can sometimes be an oxygen thing. Do you use a bubbler at all?

    I am sorry your angel is sick :-( If he is laying on his side on the bottom....sadly...I think he might be too far gone :-( But you could try general cure.....I often go that route because there are so many different things that can cause white poop and the general cure covers a lot of those things.
     


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  5. tetratetris

    tetratetris Valued Member Member

    If it was older before is what I meant. 7 years old before for example then two years in the tank.
     
  6. bizaliz3

    bizaliz3 Fishlore Legend Member

    I guess I assumed that the OPs comment "it wasn't that small" meant that it wasn't full grown yet, but wasn't a juvenile either.
     
  7. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    The white stringy poop alone tells me it has intestinal worms. You should treat the whole tank with PraziPro. Just gat the 1 oz bottle because you only put in 1 tsp per 20 gallon of water. The treatment stays in the tank for 5 days killing paracites. After that you can resume partial water changes as normal. PraziPro will not harm your biological filtration nor any other fish.
     
  8. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    I use an airstone in my tank because oxygen is only absorbed at the water surface. With the lid closed on most tanks, the oxygen between the lid and water surface gets used up quickly.
     
  9. bizaliz3

    bizaliz3 Fishlore Legend Member

    Problem is, there are other things that can cause white poop that PraziPro doesn't cover. That is why I suggested general cure. But yes, the white poop is definitely a sign of parasites.
     
  10. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    FYI, PraziPro and General Cure are the exact same medication. Generally Cure just adds salt.
     
  11. bizaliz3

    bizaliz3 Fishlore Legend Member

    No they aren't ....
    GC also has metro in it. And metro treats things prazi doesnt.
     
  12. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    You're right and I stand corrected. I forgot about metro that treat Hexamita (hole in yhe head disease). That was a good test of my memory. Thanks.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    j

    jamielands New Member Member

    Yes, correct: not fully grown but not a juvenile when I got him.

    Anyway, I picked up general cure, that was my only option at PetSmart and i didn’t want to drive 25 mins to the LFS. I dosed the QT tank, I’m guessing I should dose the main tank as well as a precaution.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  14. angelcraze

    angelcraze Valued Member Member

    I'm so sorry about your angel. Redness on the underside and lying on the bottom is not a good sign :( But if he has worms, you'll have to treat the whole main tank anyway. If you can try to confirm intestinal worms, it's better to do so, but worms cam live in the fish for years before the fish shows any symptoms at all. I actually had it happen in my showtank, I noticed an issue over 5 years, mysterious deaths here and there and increased in the last year before I noticed and treated for worms.

    I would use a dewormer like Levamisole and an antiparasitic like PraziPro. Levamisole is used with a 2ppm dosage (0.25 tsp per 90 gallons)
    https://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

    Prazipro can help the fish pass the worms, but it stays in the water for 7 days, so if you dose simultaneously, you'll have to redose Prazi for water removed after Levamisole treatment. I would treat with Levamisole, then Prazi.

    Prazi is for internal (and some external) parasites, Levamisole is for nematodes and roundworms. I had to do 3 treatments of Levamisole after I ID'd a nematode problem, two weeks apart. I followed the instructions in the link.

    Make sure to keep the QT tank conditions safe, ensure ammonia and nitrite don't spike and keep Prime water conditioner on hand in case you have to detox. Add some more biomedia from the main filter to cycle the QT.
     
  15. angelcraze

    angelcraze Valued Member Member

    Just saw you got General Cure. Use the General Cure, but you might still need to deworm, so maybe order some Levamisole HCI and you'll have it when you need it. Another option is to lace food with Fenbenzadole (another dewormer), but Levamisole is used in the water and ensures every fish is treated especially if some fish aren't eating well.

    I do not know if treating simultaneously with Metro is safe, so doing the Levamisole or Fenbenzadole after the General Cure is a good idea to be safe.
     
  16. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    Just FYI, even though it's not harmful to the fish and it doesn't happen in every case, PraziPro could make them lose their appetite during treatment. My 5 angelfish wouldn't eat a single morsal for the entire 5 days of treatment with PraziPro. But that was 8 months ago and they're all well and happy.
     
  17. angelcraze

    angelcraze Valued Member Member

    I only use Prazi once, it took care of a gill mite issue with one treatment. My fish that were displaying symptoms were better the very next day. I followed the directions on the bottle and didn't observe any feeding issues myself.

    If your fish are eating during the Levamisole treatment, (tank should be kept dark since light decreases effectiveness, but fish can still feed with ambient lighting) you could soak food on a solution of distilled water and Epsom Salts (sodium magnesium). Mix the epsom salt with the water, then add to the food, 3/4 teaspoon per 1/2 cup of water. You only have to just cover pellets with solution and let them absorb. Or add solution (boiling) to repashy gel powder to replace boiling water. It acts as a laxative helping the fish to pass any worms.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    j

    jamielands New Member Member

    I didn’t know parasites could be in the system so long before symptoms present. Actually, I bought him with another angel who I lost last year and was displaying similar symptoms. I never saw stringy poop, and I couldn’t help her. They were from the same tank, I wonder if he’s had them all this time?

    I dosed the general cure, I’ll wait til after the second dose to do anything else.

    Does anyone know if the general cure is safe for my yo-yo loaches? I get nervous about using meds with them
     
  19. OP
    OP
    j

    jamielands New Member Member

    6b1b820654b3401f0cf2c84740477875.jpg

    He is difficult to photograph
     
  20. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    Yes. General cure is safe with your loaches.
    Even some bacterial infections can begin inside if fish and not be noticed for a long time such as Columnaris and dwarf gourami disease (that's not bacterial though).