Shy Goldfish

Florida Slav

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Something I've noticed for quite a while is that my oranda goldfish has become shy like my koi fish ever since I moved him to a new tank. The goldfish is like my koi fish has become shy, he hides behind decorations, sits at the bottom when the aquarium lights are turned on, and he's very spooky of sudden movements.

He's been living in my new tank for about 2 months now but he for some reason hasn't stopped being shy. The tank was upgraded from 10 gal to 20 gal with a crawfish and crab added a week ago.

I moved the tank from my sister's room on a high piece of furniture to a short stand that's 1.5 ft off the ground. The new location is in the living room under the TV and people and dogs walk past it daily.

I would definetly appreciate insight to why my oranda goldfish has become shy.
 

tunafax

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That's not shy... fish aren't shy, they're either a type of fish that likes to hide, or a very sick and stressed fish.

This sounds like stress from being in there with crabby predators & ammonia poisoning due to bioload and improper nitrogen cycle.
What are your readings for ammonia, nitrate & nitrite? What filter are you using?
Also, a pic of the little guy would always help.


I am also very worried about those koi. Koi require a 400+ gallon pond. Where are you keeping yours?
 
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Florida Slav

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tunafax said:
That's not shy... fish aren't shy, they're either a type of fish that likes to hide, or a very sick and stressed fish.

This sounds like stress from being in there with crabby predators & ammonia poisoning due to bioload and improper nitrogen cycle.
What are your readings for ammonia, nitrate & nitrite? What filter are you using?
Also, a pic of the little guy would always help.


I am also very worried about those koi. Koi require a 400+ gallon pond. Where are you keeping yours?
Unfortunately I don't have a kit to test the water. Since I moved them to the new tank I've done an 19 Liter water changer every week. The crustaceans and fish seem to get along from my observations. I use a Marina Slim Filter S20.

Goldiemom said:
What’s your temp?
Appears to be 72-75 F.
 

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Goldiemom

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Although I don’t agree, people do keep crawfish with goldfish at times. However, the crab has to go as it will kill the goldfish. No wonder it’s hiding. Are these fish all in the same tank ?
 

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They would be hovering on top if it was too hot. 76 is top limit of their comfort, but it should be okay. Considering there is a koi, a crayfish, a crab, and a goldfish in a 20 gallon tank... with a 350 liter (92 gallon) per hour filtration... I don't think temp is the problem.

OP, your fish are incompatible, in an very inappropriate tank with very inadequate filtration. To keep the goldfish in there, you need at last 1500 liter (400 gallon) per hour filter alone.


The koi cannot stay there, they grow to 24 inches long and need a pond. If you're looking for a diagnosis of shyness, they're being poisoned by their own poop, and unfortunately no amount of water change can fix that.
 
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Florida Slav

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tunafax said:
They would be hovering on top if it was too hot. 76 is top limit of their comfort, but it should be okay. Considering there is a koi, a crayfish, a crab, and a goldfish in a 20 gallon tank... with a 350 liter (92 gallon) per hour filtration... I don't think temp is the problem.

OP, your fish are incompatible, in an very inappropriate tank with very inadequate filtration. To keep the goldfish in there, you need at last 1500 liter (400 gallon) per hour filter alone.


The koi cannot stay there, they grow to 24 inches long and need a pond. If you're looking for a diagnosis of shyness, they're being poisoned by their own poop, and unfortunately no amount of water change can fix that.
Thanks, do you recommend any hang on back filters for my aquarium?
 

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Aquaclear is a solid choice, AC 70 will be okay if you rehome the koi.

Marineland penguin is a cheaper alternative. Just stay away from Tetra and make sure whatever you get totals to 300-400 gallons per hour.


I would also read up on nitrogen cycle to give those fish a better chance.
 

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tunafax said:
They would be hovering on top if it was too hot. 76 is top limit of their comfort, but it should be okay. Considering there is a koi, a crayfish, a crab, and a goldfish in a 20 gallon tank... with a 350 liter (92 gallon) per hour filtration... I don't think temp is the problem.

OP, your fish are incompatible, in an very inappropriate tank with very inadequate filtration. To keep the goldfish in there, you need at last 1500 liter (400 gallon) per hour filter alone.


The koi cannot stay there, they grow to 24 inches long and need a pond. If you're looking for a diagnosis of shyness, they're being poisoned by their own poop, and unfortunately no amount of water change can fix that.
. Ok. Well, Humans can handle 95 degree days but wouldn’t you know prefer a nice 65-70F day. Why do you want to push the poor goldfish to the max? He has an Oranda which is a fancy goldfish. They can’t take that heat. They need 6o- 65F. Like I said, in the summer mine get to around 70F but never 76!
 
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Florida Slav

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tunafax said:
Aquaclear is a solid choice, AC 70 will be okay if you rehome the koi.

Marineland penguin is a cheaper alternative. Just stay away from Tetra and make sure whatever you get totals to 300-400 gallons per hour.


I would also read up on nitrogen cycle to give those fish a better chance.
Thanks for the help. I can't move the koi fish out so I want to know what accommodations can I make. Of the filters you've listed is the Aquaclear the smallest? I'm asking because the opening in my lid is 9.5 inches wide and 2 inches long.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to remove the crab and sell it.
 

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95 degree days for people would be 95 degree days for goldfish. At 95 a person runs a high risk of sun stroke, and at 95 a goldie runs a high risk of suffocating. Also don't forget that middle east hits 100 degrees pretty much every day for 6 months. 95 doesn't even rate.


There's a lot of misunderstanding around what those numbers actually mean. 76 is not max survival, it's max level of comfort - you would feel like something is a bit off at on a warm day, but that's weather for you. Over 76 is where the fish is starting to get 'sunburn.'
 

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I’m sorry but there is no way a koi can live in a 20G tank. He will grow to 2 feet long. I Can’t even keep them in my pond because it’s only 125G. One wouldn’t even fit when full grown.
 

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@Florida Slav there are no accommodations you can make for the koi, short of moving it to a 75 gallon tank as a temporary 6 months solution. As soon as it hits 5 inches, it will die within a few months in that tank.

And as far as the space in the lid goes, I would either cut it or get a different lid. To make sure there is no misunderstanding, those fish will die without adequate living conditions. That goldfish should live for 10 years, the koi for over 30.

If you plan to keep the koi in, you will need 800 gallons per hour to prolong its live by a bit. I can't imagine the tornado current that will create in that 20g tank, but it is what it is I guess.
 

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On a
tunafax said:
95 degree days for people would be 95 degree days for goldfish. At 95 a person runs a high risk of sun stroke, and at 95 a goldie runs a high risk of suffocating. Also don't forget that middle east hits 100 degrees pretty much every day for 6 months. 95 doesn't even rate.


There's a lot of misunderstanding around what those numbers actually mean. 76 is not max survival, it's max level of comfort - you would feel like something is a bit off at on a warm day, but that's weather for you. Over 76 is where the fish is starting to get 'sunburn.'
daily basis? Really? Goldfish are a very adaptable species of fish. This means that they can usually live comfortably in an aquarium that reads 40ºF or even an aquarium that reads 78ºF. However, that is not to say that goldfish should be residing in either of these conditions. If the tank water is too cool, then your goldfish will swim much more slowly than he normally would, and he would show less interest in anything (including food). If the tank water is too warm, then your goldfish can be prone to diseases, parasites and other illnesses. One of these health conditions includes Swim Bladder disease. Swim Bladder Disease is a syndrome in which goldfish cannot swim as they normally would. This abnormal swimming will then lead to other problems including fatigue and malnutrition. Goldfish are happiest when their aquarium water temperature falls between 65ºF and 72ºF.

Perhaps you can find a koi rescue to donate it to. We have some in Texas.
 

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Ok @Goldiemom let's agree to disagree. That's always an option.
I meet your 10+ year goldfish experience with my own 10+ year goldfish experience, and if our experience is different and we choose to stand by our opinions, than there is not much we can do - and we can chuck it to the fact that we live in different areas of the world with different climates and different goldfish strains, and this may affect our experiences.
 

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tunafax said:
Ok @Goldiemom let's agree to disagree. That's always an option.
I meet your 10+ year goldfish experience with my own 10+ year goldfish experience, and if our experience is different and we choose to stand by our opinions, than there is not much we can do - and we can chuck it to the fact that we live in different areas of the world with different climates and different goldfish strains, and this may affect our experiences.
Sorry, I took a nap. Ok, I agree.
 
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