Shutdown Fish Shopping Ethics

In Florida, pet stores are exempt from the shut down. This is due to the need to buy foods and care supplies for pets.

However, it creates a shutdown loophole. My LFS is open and receiving shipments of new fish and plants. I am tempted to do some re-stocking and re-scaping during the shutdown. But I know buying fish and plants is not what was in mind when pet stores were given an exemption. It was to provide access to supplies needed to care for existing pets.

So would it be unethical for me to use this loophole to go fish shopping? I would say yes. It is important for us all to understand and adhere to the spirit of the shutdown not just the letter of the law. We should all limit our movements as much as possible. Each of us is a possible asymptomatic carrier and we each might unknowingly spread infection. Even if we are not a carrier, going out risks infection and risks contribution to spread.

Still tempting to give myself something to do.

 

Personally I wouldn't consider it unethical at all but that may just be me. Just be careful out there and be aware of the folks around you. Be sure to also buy necessary fish supplies while you are there. I am sure the folks at the fish store will be happy to have a customer if they have to stay open anyway.

 

I just want to say I appreciate you. This is the reason our pet store in OH is closed right now. Because even though there was an order to stay home, we were still just as busy as we always are - more busy actually. People are still coming in to buy NON ESSENTIAL things, on purpose. Had a lady complain to me about everything going on while I was bagging up her clownfish and anemone. and while it might be okay for one person to go, when everyone decides to do the same thing all after they get out of work at 3pm and our fishroom is packed with people AND children who are not following the 6ft rule and are touching everything they can put their hands on....Its a great risk.

and I'm also going to state, I'm not sure the nature of the store you're talking about, but I know at my store, all of our employees were getting VERY frustrated with the amount of people out and about when they were only supposed to be out for essential reasons. We're not happy to help customers who are basically breaking rules. I mean, its our job so of course were going to serve you with a smile but....if you do not need to go out at this time than we should all stay home.

 

I personally have ordered some fish (not going into a LFS), but I have gone into tractor supply to pick up some chicks, so that’s in the same vein. I wouldn’t say it’s unethical as long as you are safe: Stay at least six feet from people, wear gloves (being conscious of the fact that once you touch stuff those gloves are potentially contaminated), disinfect what you buy before you go inside your house, make sure the trip is just in and out, etc. you know it all I’m sure.
If you go out and browse for an hour, touch stuff you don’t intend to buy, don’t follow safety precautions, etc. I’d say that is unethical and irresponsible. Because that stuff is nonessential.

Alternatively you could do what I did and order online. That way you can still work on what you want, but without going out yourself. just be sure to disinfect your packages just like anything else

 

and I just want to clarify, the last part of what declaw said, is what people were doing at my store. Bringing their kids in to shop the fishroom for an hour, touching items and not purchasing them, I actually had 1 man touch me....not staying 6ft apart, having children with coughs walk through the store etc. so long as you're appropriate about it, its fine.

 

A lot of businesses that are still open here handle things a few ways. Some, won't sell you non essential items off the shelves, you can buy them online and pick up at the curb, though. I'm considering this myself as I'm getting close to begin stocking my tank (started cycling before any shelter in place stuff started), and just don't want to pay overnight shipping costs for 10 not rare tetras. Also debating grabbing a pair of 20 long tanks from petco before their dollar per gallon sale is done.

Edited to add: I would do the curbside pickup, I wouldn't go into a store right now if I can avoid it.

 

I think we should stay home if at all possible. I'm less worried about my health than I am about passing it to somebody else before I have symptoms.

 

I went by a few LFS over the weekend. One of them only let you walk to the counter but nowhere else in the store. There was no pet purchasing. One only let two customers in at a time and did allow fish buying. I got a girlfriend for my golden wonder killifish. Another one had the door locked with a sign asking you to call them and ask them to check on items. If they had it they'd let you go to the counter only. The big LPS's all were business as usual.

 

I just want to say I appreciate you. This is the reason our pet store in OH is closed right now. Because even though there was an order to stay home, we were still just as busy as we always are - more busy actually. People are still coming in to buy NON ESSENTIAL things, on purpose. Had a lady complain to me about everything going on while I was bagging up her clownfish and anemone. and while it might be okay for one person to go, when everyone decides to do the same thing all after they get out of work at 3pm and our fishroom is packed with people AND children who are not following the 6ft rule and are touching everything they can put their hands on....Its a great risk.

and I'm also going to state, I'm not sure the nature of the store you're talking about, but I know at my store, all of our employees were getting VERY frustrated with the amount of people out and about when they were only supposed to be out for essential reasons. We're not happy to help customers who are basically breaking rules. I mean, its our job so of course were going to serve you with a smile but....if you do not need to go out at this time than we should all stay home.

Thank you for sharing what is happening in the store you work in. You made some very good points and mentioned things I hadn't thought about before posting my original post. I can see where it could get bad if everyone decided to come at the same time and weren't doing their part in this mess.

 

My LFS is promoting their new stock on their facebook page. I considered the possibility of placing an order by phone and asking for curbside pick up. I had pictured my LFS as empty. But now that I think about it, maybe they are doing a booming business if they are one of the few store open. I would not want to walk into or contribute to an environment described by FishGirl38

 

Thank you for sharing what is happening in the store you work in. You made some very good points and mentioned things I hadn't thought about before posting my original post. I can see where it could get bad if everyone decided to come at the same time and weren't doing their part in this mess.

Granted, the times that happens is 3pm, and 5pm but with the size of the store, its real easy for customers to break the rules as applied by the CDC right now and the owners felt it'd be safer to close. Now, as of now we're scheduled to open on the 6th. I haven't heard anything from my superiors in means of policy changes but...if they don't come up with any and still expect us to open business as usual, I plan to write up some changes for consideration, and if they're not considered I'm fine being unessential until this blows over. I've got a 45yr old mom who's smoked since she was 13, I don't need to bring this home to her.

Sorg, if you're being responsible about your actions and you're conscious of the fact that the virus could be on anything in the store than you should be safe to walk in...its not the conscious, considerate people like you who should have to worry about going into the store, but the scenario I mentioned has happened other places and you could be subjecting yourself to that - to the people who just don't care. Its possible your LFS has been more responsible than mine in stopping the bad behavior I've described. Just please stay safe and carry alcohol wipes/sanitizer if you have em.

 

A LFS in my area is being more creative offering free local delivery as well as curb side pickup. You can call your order in and they will deliver it to your home or meet you in the parking lot.

Or if you want to come in they are limiting numbers and I think discouraging people from hanging out. While I think it may push the line on what’s essential I bought some fish recently only because I know the LFS don’t have the backing the chainstores do so I want to help ensure they will be there when things settle down!

 

Considering placing an order by phone and paying for it. Then driving to LFS, popping the trunk and asking them to put supplies in the trunk. Then I could disinfect when I get home.

OTOH, I think my LFS is actively taking advantage of the loophole and I am not sure I want to encourage / reward that.

OTOOH, I think small businesses are really going to struggle to survive and keep their employees on the payroll over the next few months and I like the idea of supporting their efforts to support their employees.....

Aaaaarrrrrrggggg........ ethics are sooooo complicated.....

 

Considering placing an order by phone and paying for it. Then driving to LFS, popping the trunk and asking them to put supplies in the trunk. Then I could disinfect when I get home.

OTOH, I think my LFS is actively taking advantage of the loophole and I am not sure I want to encourage / reward that.

OTOOH, I think small businesses are really going to struggle to survive and keep their employees on the payroll over the next few months and I like the idea of supporting their efforts to support their employees.....

Aaaaarrrrrrggggg........ ethics are sooooo complicated.....

I do understand all your points. If we can help the small business that are going to be hurt by this I think we should. I would go with your first thought. It will be helping them without exposing yourself or others to the danger.

 

It is tough because obviously nobody needs fish right now. Only food or other equipment necessary to run your tanks are all you could really justify a need for.

But if there is a means for you to protect yourself and others and keep expiate minimum while preserving local business I think you can justify purchases.

It’s more of the people going out because they can that you can argue are causing issues.

Either way, wash your hands and don’t touch your face!

 

PetSmart and Petco have stopped live shipments of fish for this very reason, since they are technically not essential, which actually I applaud. A different local fish store is still getting shipments but I think they're only allowing a limited amount of people in and they have limited their hours. The local fish store next to me is open for a limited amount of hours but only does curbside pickup. You have to call ahead and order what you want. If you know what kind of fish you want, they will bag it for you and meet you on the curb. I felt like these were all really really good ways of keeping their stores open but following the rules. I am proud of all of them!

 

Our local LFS have limits on the number of people allowed into the store at all times. I’ll admit I have purchased fish during this, on one hand feel really guilty for it and on the other want to help them because their normal volume of customers has declined... However, the numbers of COVID+ in my area has risen, so we are going to lay low now, it’s just not worth the risk. Also working in a hospital myself, now that we are caring for these patients, I’m QT’d. I don’t have symptoms, but I def have exposure now. I start helping out at a sister hospital this weekend that has been designated for COVID patients, so my tank growth is on an indefinite hiatus. I’ll be at work or underground from here on out.

 

I'm struggling with this myself. My area hasn't been hit hard yet, only a few cases in my small town, but I also want to support my one LFS, if they go under, there is only Petco. But I certainly wouldn't enter if it looks busy. I'm considering calling in an order, but I pay cash so I'd have to go in at least to pay.
I'm a yearly germophobe anyways, we had the flu one year and scared us into better awareness and cleaning practices.

I'd really like to start a new tank as well, which requires entering stores, and this tank is for the mental stimulation for my aging father in law, who would literally gaze at the tank all day. I think it would be beneficial for him but at the same time SO risky to get it. I was planning on setting up the whole thing in my house to get it cycled, then moving it next door to his house.

But at the same time, I'd be risking exposure for myself and ultimately him as well since I take care of him. But then on the other hand he needs more mental activity, he doesn't watch TV, watches an occasional movie, but usually looks out a window at traffic. When he's in my house he sits at the aquarium, the whole time. I know he'd love his own, and I can certainty do all the maintenance for him. I would just give him our tank (kids tank), but it's glow fish with sponge Bob decorations, I'm thinking he'd appreciate something else...

 

Also working in a hospital myself, now that we are caring for these patients, I’m QT’d. I don’t have symptoms, but I def have exposure now. I start helping out at a sister hospital this weekend that has been designated for COVID patients, so my tank growth is on an indefinite hiatus. I’ll be at work or underground from here on out.

Thank you for your service

 

Thank you for your service

We are all trying our best to do what we have to in order to flatten that curve, as they say, so from the frontline thank you!

 

All I'm going to the store to get are my frozen foods since there's no other way for me to get them. Everything else, including fish and plants, can be purchased online with zero contact.

 

This is definitely an issue, yes. I appreciate your conscientiousness. All stores here are still open (including non-essential ones) so as to damage the economy as little as possible but there are strictly enforced rules on how to conduct business, including aside from the distance rule, limited number of people per square meters of shop floor, no more than 1 person going in (so no groups or relatives, etc.), not touching stuff you're not buying, no unnecessary browsing, etc. The municipalities are supposed to keep an eye on the shops and anyone found not actively enforcing the rules risks fines and getting shut down. So far it seems to be working, most stores have giant notices and wipes outside the stores for trolley handles and stuff like that. They also all oblige shopping with a basket or trolley, presumably so they have to approach or search anyone to prevent shoplifting, plus it forces a natural distance. Some shops also close at certain hours of the day for safe, contact-free restocking.

Still not sure if this is a wise regulation but I do understand the reason for it. It provides quite a lot of financial relief to businesses to have at least some modicum of income still. Still better not to visit these unless you really need stuff though. In the beginning places like gardening centers and home supply stores were insanely crowded, it's quieted down after the new rules and fines and most stores are pretty empty now.

I went to an outdoor gardening center down the street yesterday. Figured since I wasn't really travelling, and it was outdoors and deserted it was fine for me to browse without touching anything. Still wasn't 100% comfortable doing it though.

 

Pet Smart by me was obeying social distancing. I saw 3 kids total but they were with parents going to vet office area. Everyone had gloves & masks that worked there.

the check out had a box forcing space & you laid items down to scan on the box, no close contact.

I bought plants, water conditioner, glo fish water treatment & a single betta female.

Even though I bought non essentials, they as a retailer still have rent to make. to me it was a no brainer to buy the extra items even though they aren't vital like water conditioner. JMO

 

I do not think it is unethical to support LFS during this pandemic; however, I do think it is irresponsible as an individual to endanger the lives of others by not taking the necessary risk mitigation measures when out in public. I have recently made a large purchase of plants and hard goods to rescape my 90G because if I am going to be home for many months to come, then I rather have a nice home office to work remotely. In addition, my LFS implemented a measure where in order to come inside their store, you must schedule a 1hr block with them through Facebook and only 1 family member is allowed in. Furthermore, they stated that gloves must be worn at all times. They have also implemented curbside delivery and free home delivery within a 30 miles radius. Lastly, they have a huge plexiglass that covers the entire checkout counter.
I am happy about the measures they put in place to protect them and their customers.

When I received my plant and hard good shipment. I immediately put on gloves and decontaminanted outside box with Clorox wipe. I open the box and remove all shipments, then jet steam everything for 5 minutes prior to bringing it inside the house. I did not recycle the cardboard until the next day.

 

I think I am going to do some shopping this week.

 

I bought a few cories the other day, the store was dead empty, I called in advance so they could bag them, and the guy was super thankful I bought something. I plan on going back on Friday for a filter and some decor, and hopefully some shrimp if they have any.

I really hope this doesn't cause the little stores to go under. At the beginning, this store says they'd be OK, but who knows how long this will go on for?

 

I don't see an issue. You're giving the place business and money in a time of low business. I know chains are not ordering anything but feeder fish right now, but my LFS in Texas is still ordering and stocking new animals. The stores are doing curbside pick up mainly and not allowing people in the store, so there is less risk of spreading the virus.

 

I know my Petco is still doing normal orders, but I'd rather not buy fish from them, too many issues to bring home to my tanks. Any time I try it's an infestation of something, plus I love my LFS

 

Going to pop in as an "essential" person, aka, I work in a grocery store.

I have not gone to the lfs lately because I haven't needed any new fish, plants or shrimp and use chewy.com for my pet care needs.

But first. If there are fish in the lfs and you need a fish, these fish also need a home. You should not feel guilty for giving them that home.

Second, you take a risk going into any store. Take it from me, it doesn't matter what steps a store or you take, there is always more than one person who will disregard any safety measure. I see it constantly and am exposed to these idiots on a daily basis, not only as a worker but also in shopping after work. How can they not observe the 6 foot rule, it's posted everywhere. I've even had some get offended when I back away from them, I do observe the 6 foot rule in my job or shopping. Case in point, I actually had a jerk refuse to stand at the posted line to enforce the 6 foot rule at my counter and I refused to move closer. Meanwhile the line at my counter got longer and longer from people who where actually observing this rule. I ended up having to call store security on him. All he had to do was step back a few feet, but instead, he got insulted and made a mess of it all. Anyhow, this just goes to show what type of person you might run into any time you go into any store.

Third, I really hate seeing kids in my store and I love kids. I see whole families and I'm like, one of you couldn't do the shopping while the other stays at home with the kids? And I'm talking about new born babies. I know the kids are going stir crazy, but a store is not the place to take them. Kids touch everything and if they are young enough where does that hand that just touch everything go? Yea, right into their mouth. And I still see parents or caregivers letting kids run free in the grocery store.

K, off my soapbox, no do not feel guilty if you need a fish, that fish also needs a home.

 

In Florida, pet stores are exempt from the shut down. This is due to the need to buy foods and care supplies for pets.

However, it creates a shutdown loophole. My LFS is open and receiving shipments of new fish and plants. I am tempted to do some re-stocking and re-scaping during the shutdown. But I know buying fish and plants is not what was in mind when pet stores were given an exemption. It was to provide access to supplies needed to care for existing pets.

So would it be unethical for me to use this loophole to go fish shopping? I would say yes. It is important for us all to understand and adhere to the spirit of the shutdown not just the letter of the law. We should all limit our movements as much as possible. Each of us is a possible asymptomatic carrier and we each might unknowingly spread infection. Even if we are not a carrier, going out risks infection and risks contribution to spread.

Still tempting to give myself something to do.

Open for business is open for business...do not let this inhibit your free will, I have visited petco everyday this week and purchased something for my tanks.
Go shopping, have a good time doing so, get what you want and scoot back to the pad...do not worry about all the rest of the nonsense

 

My LFS (not a chain) has this posted on their website landing page, which made me chuckle:

I may have given the impression that I am not open for fish sales ...
what I meant was, I don't want a gathering of 7 bored people taking 3 hour tours of the place ...
so call ahead ...
if we are not crowded (and are not sneezing and coughing and feverish), we will let you in

 

you can easily infect somebody before you show signs. Stay home, you don't need a fish that bad.

You could kill somebody and not even know it.

 

you can easily infect somebody before you show signs. Stay home, you don't need a fish that bad.

You could kill somebody and not even know it.

Um, Mental health is part of health.

And I'll follow the CDC guidelines, but thank you anyway.

Case in point, I actually had a jerk refuse to stand at the posted line to enforce the 6 foot rule at my counter and I refused to move closer. Meanwhile the line at my counter got longer and longer from people who where actually observing this rule. I ended up having to call store security on him.

Good for you! My Kroger has plexi glass barrier for the cashier because there's only 3 foot distance between customer & clerk, but my Walmart doesn't.

I wish more stores had used the plexi glass or the box extender to force the 6 foot rule at my Pet Smart not for me, but for their employees health.

I think when this is all over, we need to roll back to the Victorian era in terms of manners - gloves at all times and lots of space!

 

I have 3 lfs I usually regularly go to (not currently) and all of them are open, but the sale of fish and plants have been halted due to irresponsible people cramming together to oogle over the tanks and touch everything. I was disappointed that I would be unable to preoccupy myself with looking at and or purchase fish and plants, however I do think this is a responsible move for everyone's safety, since so many people are not abiding by the rules. It's a shame, if people were more considerate in the first place, we could have carried on quite safely but alas. I think it's for the best, in my area at least

 

Um, Mental health is part of health.

And I'll follow the CDC guidelines, but thank you anyway.

Um, Mental health is part of health.

And I'll follow the CDC guidelines, but thank you anyway.

My sisters an er nurse, I'll share your concern with her, your needs come first.

 

My LFS has a no-browsing rule, and all the essential business where I am, (or at least, all the ones I've been too,) have had a Maximum Number Of Customers they could have at any point in time, determined by the size of the store. I've always been extremely germ-conscious, and I'm only rarely going, so I don't feel any shame in that fact that I'm going to buy a betta tomorrow, but it really depends on the situation where you are, how often you might be exposed, how important it is that you're aren't, and how well the other people where you are follow the rules. Due to what I said above along with other factors, I am personally not extremely worried as long as I retain my wits. You may have other factors that make it a poor idea if you go just to buy fish.

 

I can order online from my Petco. Then call from the parking lot. They bring my order out and put it in my trunk.

 

My sisters an er nurse, I'll share your concern with her, your needs come first.

you are making this into a contest which is silly. if you don't want to shop or buy fish, that's your decision.

but since they are reporting now that half the population is suspected as already exposed to COVID19, your targeted outrage is kind of odd at this point.

Ask Sis to explain herd immunity when you next talk. It's why we stayed home - SLOW ( not stop) the spread so herd immunity would take over for this new virus strain. You literally want herd immunity. It's why Europe survived small pox while Native American didn't when exposed - antibodies that develop during exposure.

There is no true cure, so herd immunity is it, that's the end goal.

George Carlin: 'You are all Diseased!" tour

 

I am going to the LFS on Sunday to get some Bolivian Rams and Honey Gouramis (and some more food). I think it is rather ridiculous that a fish store would be shut down because people are going and buying livestock. Same thing with garden stores. I mean, what do they expect people to do?? Sit around and watch TV all day?? As long as social distancing is maintained, I think some non-essential business should stay open. I think it would actually be good to go, as a lot of businesses will be probably going bankrupt soon, even if you go spend $10, that’s 1 employees payment for 1 hour (depending on whether they are getting minimum wage, and what your states minimum wage is). that’s just my opinion.

 

Maybe I didn't necessarily word my first post very well but I did actually go to purchase some fish when I found out they weren't selling them. But where I live, it was the store employees that told me they were forced to halt sales because there were people helping themselves to plants in the plant tank and people just flat out ignoring the social distancing order. The stores themselves were actually busier, with people and families with small kids who don't even keep fish nor have any intention of doing so, trying to use it as a public aquarium day trip. They didn't have enough security staff to enforce the rules properly and deal with the unruly and inconsiderate new flood of non-shoppers. Which is really sad. I already work from home anyway and am a massively outdoorsy person, so the Lfs is kind of an only escape when we can't go and hang out outdoors. Now we aren't even allowed to view the tanks/vivariums, its cordened off and theres a quick in for essentials and out rule.
2 out of 3 of my Lfs have very large livestock sections, and import rare and exotic animals for people. Including reptiles, spiders and amphibians etc. So there is absolutely no doubt they are going to suffer from this.
In places where they don't necessarily have this problem with the public, or are equipped to deal with them. As long as youre not particularly vulnerable and you/people around you are considerate I think its perfectly fine to shop as usual.