Shrimp not growing up?

Crimson_687

So this is a weird question,

But I’ve been noticing for the past few months that I’m seeing less and less adult shrimp. Asides from the very occasional random death (maybe once every 2 months?), I’m not seeing any massive amounts of shrimp die. I see plenty of shrimplets around, though these past few weeks I haven’t seen any berried or saddled females, which is also strange. I usually have 2 or 3 females berried at once. I’ve never had a female with many eggs, usually I can only count 5 shrimplets so I suspect the females don’t have many at once. I am aware they are good hiders, but even when they grow up I don’t count as many as I would if the females had many shrimplets at once. This has always been the case, not sure what it is. Even at the LFS I’ve never seen berried females with many eggs. I’ve seen a few sheds, though those are quickly eaten.

Is there any reason why shrimp wouldn’t grow up, or wouldn’t breed if they did?
 

Bettybrown922

I'm following this 'cos I have the same problem & was considering posting about it. I just lost my last adult today. My water parameters are fine. I have tons of fry & juveniles, they just don't seem to make it through adulthood.
 
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richiep

Its not a weired question! In fact its very important because a lot of the time you think your tanks ok and its not,
I'm not insulting anyones intelligence but its very important when asking these sort of questions to supply your maintenance routine and your water parameters, what you may think is ok may not be for the particular shrimp you keep,, maintenance, water parameters, feeding routine, what you feed and how often are normally the problems accociated with what you are seeing, the slow growth is not sudden it normally comes on over time then suddenly you're face to face.
 
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Crimson_687

Its not a weired question! In fact its very important because a lot of the time you think your tanks ok and its not,
I'm not insulting anyones intelligence but its very important when asking these sort of questions to supply your maintenance routine and your water parameters, what you may think is ok may not be for the particular shrimp you keep,, maintenance, water parameters, feeding routine, what you feed and how often are normally the problems accociated with what you are seeing, the slow growth is not sudden it normally comes on over time then suddenly you're face to face.
I do 30% once or twice a week. I fill the water in a container and let it sit out overnight. I condition it with seachem prime, night before. My tap measures 0.5-1ppm ammonia on test kit. Since I don’t have a heater for the tank, temperature is identical. Tank size 5.5g. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate never gets to 10ppm. Ph is between both reg and high test scales, so about 7.7. Temp 78-80F. I don’t feed consistently, but the amount per week is maybe the equivalent to 1-2 Hikari micro algae wafers, or 6 betta fish omega one buffet pellets. Sometimes their food is a Hikari crab cuisine. Other times I’ll use a pair of tongs and give them omega one fish flakes, about 3-5 flakes. I’m halfway through the bottle so the flakes are on the medium-smaller side. When I drop in anything Hikari my assassin snails join in, and when I see them move on there’s nothing left. They get to it a few minutes after the shrimp do.
 
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richiep

I do 30% once or twice a week. I fill the water in a container and let it sit out overnight. I condition it with seachem prime, night before. My tap measures 0.5-1ppm ammonia on test kit. Since I don’t have a heater for the tank, temperature is identical. Tank size 5.5g. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate never gets to 10ppm. Ph is between both reg and high test scales, so about 7.7. Temp 78-80F. I don’t feed consistently, but the amount per week is maybe the equivalent to 1-2 Hikari micro algae wafers, or 6 betta fish omega one buffet pellets. Sometimes their food is a Hikari crab cuisine. Other times I’ll use a pair of tongs and give them omega one fish flakes, about 3-5 flakes. I’m halfway through the bottle so the flakes are on the medium-smaller side. When I drop in anything Hikari my assassin snails join in, and when I see them move on there’s nothing left. They get to it a few minutes after the shrimp do.
I'm not seeing protein like blood worm, nor veg like zucchini, spinach, broccoli,
Bactor ae is another important feed that promots growth.
What you are feeding is not sufficient for shrimp to keep them tip top, veg at least once a week,protein once a week, all in one shrimp pellet once a week. I'll post my feeding regime you dont need to go crackers like me but look at it and see if there's a way to implement some of it, with your 5.5 I wouldn't expect you to go buy bactor ae but supplement with other foods will get you on track, also with a small tank you don't want to leave things like broccoli in to long. Hope this helps you both on your way

20181012_160242.jpg
 
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Crimson_687

Are freeze dried blood worms, microwave-blanched spinach, and thawed+peeled frozen pea alright?
 
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richiep

Bettybrown922 reac through this post
 
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richiep

Are freeze dried blood worms, microwave-blanched spinach, and thawed+peeled frozen pea alright?
Yes they are
 
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Crimson_687

So I started incorporating freeze-dried mysis and bloodworms into their diet, as well as occasional spinach or pea. I still feed algae wafer and hikari sinking crab cuisine.

While no shrimp have died, there still hasn't been any improvement. I did have one female become berried and have her shrimplets, but the semi-adults don't seem to be getting any bigger. My adult count is extremely low atm, so I suspect this is the reason they aren't breeding. I'm more concerned about the lack of growth in the semi-adults. Sheds get eaten almost immediately, but I do see some sheds here and there, though I feel there aren't as many sheds as I should be seeing.

The only other thing I suspect is maybe I am not giving the veg often enough. I'll up that to once a week, I think before I wasn't giving it often enough.

I read online that someone with a similar problem to mine was able to solve it by getting a specialist shrimp food. Should I do this as well?
 
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richiep

Your only reading online what i posted in September, all on that feeding program i posted is what can be taken into consideration but in lot smaller dose
 
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Cherryshrimp420

I do 30% once or twice a week. I fill the water in a container and let it sit out overnight. I condition it with seachem prime, night before. My tap measures 0.5-1ppm ammonia on test kit. Since I don’t have a heater for the tank, temperature is identical. Tank size 5.5g. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate never gets to 10ppm. Ph is between both reg and high test scales, so about 7.7. Temp 78-80F. I don’t feed consistently, but the amount per week is maybe the equivalent to 1-2 Hikari micro algae wafers, or 6 betta fish omega one buffet pellets. Sometimes their food is a Hikari crab cuisine. Other times I’ll use a pair of tongs and give them omega one fish flakes, about 3-5 flakes. I’m halfway through the bottle so the flakes are on the medium-smaller side. When I drop in anything Hikari my assassin snails join in, and when I see them move on there’s nothing left. They get to it a few minutes after the shrimp do.

Hmm with that much ammonia in the tap water, every time you do a water change you are shocking your shrimp to ammonia toxiciy. Prime doesn't remove ammonia, it just "supposedly" neutralize ammonia for 48 hours (after which it becomes toxic again).

Do you have a picture of the tank? How heavily planted is it? What kind of filter? Those all contribute to how well it can process a sudden injection of ammonia.
 
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Crimson_687

Hmm with that much ammonia in the tap water, every time you do a water change you are shocking your shrimp to ammonia toxiciy. Prime doesn't remove ammonia, it just "supposedly" neutralize ammonia for 48 hours (after which it becomes toxic again).

Do you have a picture of the tank? How heavily planted is it? What kind of filter? Those all contribute to how well it can process a sudden injection of ammonia.
Tank is very lightly planted as I can’t seem to get many plants to survive in the tank, probably due to low lighting and my only fert being seachem flourish. Both my elodea and java moss died, though the moss was able to recover. The duckweed doesn’t grow fast, but does survive. I’ll try jungle val or aponogeton if I can find, I think the main reason the elodea didn’t make it was high pH.

The filter is a TopFin 10 HOB, next to it is a sponge filter attached to a very weak air pump. I rely mainly on the TopFin 10 for filtration, the sponge filter is just backup and added grazing spot for them. The flow is slowed by a sponge piece that keeps the water surface still for the duckweed. The intake is covered by a cloth sleeve. So far the filter has been reliable.
 

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Cherryshrimp420

Tank is very lightly planted as I can’t seem to get many plants to survive in the tank, probably due to low lighting and my only fert being seachem flourish. Both my elodea and java moss died, though the moss was able to recover. The duckweed doesn’t grow fast, but does survive. I’ll try jungle val or aponogeton if I can find, I think the main reason the elodea didn’t make it was high pH.

The filter is a TopFin 10 HOB, next to it is a sponge filter attached to a very weak air pump. I rely mainly on the TopFin 10 for filtration, the sponge filter is just backup and added grazing spot for them. The flow is slowed by a sponge piece that keeps the water surface still for the duckweed. The intake is covered by a cloth sleeve. So far the filter has been reliable.

I would hold off on dosing for now....There is no point to using ferts if lighting is low. I'm really just concerned about all that ammonia in your tap water. That amount of ammonia is definitely lethal to shrimp. Even though in your estashlished tank it will get processed very quickly, I can't imagine it won't have an effect on the shrimps....
 
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Crimson_687

I would hold off on dosing for now....There is no point to using ferts if lighting is low. I'm really just concerned about all that ammonia in your tap water. That amount of ammonia is definitely lethal to shrimp. Even though in your estashlished tank it will get processed very quickly, I can't imagine it won't have an effect on the shrimps....
I dose maybe once every two weeks, not often.
I can run a mini-filter in the tank of new water for a few days prior to use, do you think that would work?
Crypts grow well for me in water with ph 8.
I do have a crypt in there, however I haven't given it a root tab so its growth rate is almost non-existent. I'm a bit worried to give it a root tab because my substrate level is thin, oversight on my part during setup. I plan to make the substrate layer more proper so I can have the jungle val and promote the crypt, just haven't had the chance yet to get more substrate.
 
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Cherryshrimp420

I dose maybe once every two weeks, not often.
I can run a mini-filter in the tank of new water for a few days prior to use, do you think that would work?

I do have a crypt in there, however I haven't given it a root tab so its growth rate is almost non-existent. I'm a bit worried to give it a root tab because my substrate level is thin.

I would search online and see if there are any local fish forums. See what local aquarists are saying about the water, whether it has detectable ammonia or not and how to deal with it.
 
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Crimson_687

I would search online and see if there are any local fish forums. See what local aquarists are saying about the water, whether it has detectable ammonia or not and how to deal with it.
I should add that the ammonia concentration is due to our tap water being treated with chloramine. When chlorine is broken from chloramine, ammonia is left. I've been using prime as it supposedly binds to the ammonia after the chloramine is broken down. Others use products that convert ammonia into ammonium and then use products that absorb ammonium.

Edit:
There's something called Amquel, it supposedly neutralizes both the ammonia and chlorine aspect of chloramine. Do you have any experience with this product?
 
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Cherryshrimp420

I should add that the ammonia concentration is due to our tap water being treated with chloramine. When chlorine is broken from chloramine, ammonia is left. I've been using prime as it supposedly binds to the ammonia after the chloramine is broken down. Others use products that convert ammonia into ammonium and then use products that absorb ammonium.

Yes that is a common source of ammonia. Regardless, it is still ammonia and Prime does not remove it. The idea that they remove ammonia is a common misconception that Seachem addressed themselves. Here is a snippet from their website:

"Prime® will bind up those compounds for up to 48 hours. If they are still present after that time frame, they are released back into the water, "

Check this link and go to FAQ - How long does Prime® stay bound to the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates?
Seachem - Prime

There have also been very hacky non-scientific experiments done by hobbyist on Prime and found it to be uselss in treating ammonia. Take those with a grain of salt. At this point I have no idea if Prime actually works or not.
 
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V1K

Maybe You should invest in additional lights, it would give you more options. Well growing plants would help to get rid of ammonia and other waste in your water. If you really can't, I recommend getting Java fern windelov, it's low light as all Java ferns, but it has really frilly leaves, the type that shrimp like. And it wouldn't care about your insufficient substrate, as you can put it on a piece of driftwood or stone.

BTW does your water have enough calcium? I don't know if the lack of it would cause the problem you describe, but I know it's important for shrimp.
 
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Crimson_687

Maybe You should invest in additional lights, it would give you more options. Well growing plants would help to get rid of ammonia and other waste in your water. If you really can't, I recommend getting Java fern windelov, it's low light as all Java ferns, but it has really frilly leaves, the type that shrimp like. And it wouldn't care about your insufficient substrate, as you can put it on a piece of driftwood or stone.

BTW does your water have enough calcium? I don't know if the lack of it would cause the problem you describe, but I know it's important for shrimp.
I tried java fern in my other tank and it did not do well, I don't think it will do well in this tank.
Calcium off the tap is 60.6-60.7 ppm.
About lighting, I might be able to add some more LEDs...
 
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Crimson_687

I think I found part of the problem, lack of circulation.

Several weeks ago I had decided to put a baffle in front of my HOB filter instead of the previous airline tubing to block surface agitation for the sake of the duckweed. With the baffle, there was no surface agitation at all. Since the duckweed has not been doing well and blocks out light, I decided to remove it altogether and take off the baffle. Already I can see there's better circulation, and my shrimp have perked up in activity level, appetite as well. I saw some sheds today too.
 
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Crimson_687

Alright, I was able to get more substrate. Going to pick a day where I'll have time to consistently monitor the tank afterward to add it.

I did a substrate change before in a fish tank and removed the fish, drained the tank, kept most of the water. Since I'm just adding substrate, not removing, I trust that if I add it in slowly with a small net they'll move out of the way? I know they aren't the brightest, I'll try my best to allow the sand to fall out of the net a few grains at a time rather than dumping. Or is there a better way?

Was also a little concerned about chlorine with rinsing the sand. I have to rinse it a lot, the easiest way to do that is in a cloth mesh bag under the running tap. If afterwards I let the sand sit in water and dechlorinate, would I need to stir it around? Can chlorinated water get trapped in between sand particles?
 
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richiep

Give the sand a good blasting with a hosepipe, put small amounts in a bucket and blast until it starts to run clear, there are sand losses but minimum, if your water is really cold then use warm water on the last clean and add a little dechloranter, just give that a mix with your hand empty as much water as you can, I then use a jug and scoop the sand and lower the whole thing into the tank, tip it along the edge at the bottom and gently move around as needed, your water will become a little cloudy for a few hrs but will clear.
Don't do it in a mesh bag as you wont get the movement and I think the bag will hinder the cleaning process
 
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kansas

I use a turkey plaster to get shrimp to move away from things I want to move.
 
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