Shrimp Keep Dying

Keicola46

HI guys,
So I just started my first shrimp tank. I have a 29 gallon and a couple small tanks. My shrimp tank is going on day 5 and on average about 1-2 daily have been dying and I'm totally out of ideas. (Shrimp tank is 5 gallons) Side note maybe related or not, my plants seem to be turning a white color.
My parameters are 0-0-10. I used some biorings from my well established 29, along with some TSS just to be safe. I can tell you it cannot be a iron problem as I just dosed yesterday. As far as the shrimp, they seem fine and happy. I have sungrow mineral rocks and those Japanese tourmaline balls. Also the Betta leave and alder cones. Ph is 7. I just ordered a TDS tester won't be in for few days. I did my research before I set this up to make sure this exact thing doesn't happen. I dropped about $500 on this tank this weekend so as you can imagine I'm getting very concerned. I have kept fish since I was a kid so no newbie mistakes (I would hope) but never shrimp. Here is a picture of the tank, not that it helps but.... Anyways thanks in advance for your help. I will include all chemicals I have used in this tank since day one (Friday) in the picture. Oh also, I use chemi-pure planted tank carbon, sometimes purigen also.
Edit- sry forgot to state that all the flourish stuff did not get added until yesterday, after my problem has already started. However, today was the first day I noticed the plants turning a white ish color on the leaves. I'm saying I noticed it today and cannot imagine I missed it before today but I guess it's possible. Highly unlikely tho, who would spend that kinda money and not pay attention especially the first week. Also I used eco complete substrate
1551215489279.jpg
 

Stoka

Few questions. Gh value? How long tank cycled? Tankmates? What kind of shrimp?
 

Zigi Zig

Hello
I don't much about shrimp but I do know some fertilizers contains copper and is not good for shrimp

51YeuV58GpL._SL1022_.jpg
 

Keicola46

KH&GH Idk. I'm actually going to Petco now to see if they have a kit. Like I said tho, mineral rocks tourmaline balls in on the picture you can see the "shrimp essentials trace minerals"

Only shrimp. Few ghost, cherry or two, and the rest are naocaridina (think that right)

Here is a pic of them of that helps and incase I'm saying the name wrong.
1551216229461.jpg
1551216385030.jpg
 

Zigi Zig

KH&GH Idk. I'm actually going to Petco now to see if they have a kit. Like I said tho, mineral rocks tourmaline balls in on the picture you can see the "shrimp essentials trace minerals"

Only shrimp. Few ghost, cherry or two, and the rest are naocaridina (think that right)

Ghost Shrimp lifespan can be anywhere from a couple of days to 1 year. In some cases under good conditions and with a little luck, a Ghost Shrimp lifespan can be a little longer than a year. But usually not that much more that that. Ghost Shrimp are at risk of dying soon after they are added to a tank
 

Keicola46

Ghost Shrimp lifespan can be anywhere from a couple of days to 1 year. In some cases under good conditions and with a little luck, a Ghost Shrimp lifespan can be a little longer than a year. But usually not that much more that that. Ghost Shrimp are at risk of dying soon after they are added to a tank

Agreed, but it's ALL the shrimp seemingly undiscriminating

Hello
I don't much about shrimp but I do know some fertilizers contains copper and is not good for shrimp

51YeuV58GpL._SL1022_.jpg
Yes and I used iron for the plants however All my florish stuff was only added yesterday. I also use high grade carbon that ahoshohelp remove any copper if there is any
 

richiep

Can you clarify that I'm reading this right, that you have shrimp in a tank that as been running five days only, or as the tank been cycled
 

Keicola46

Can you clarify that I'm reading this right, that you have shrimp in a tank that as been running five days only, or as the tank been cycled

Right on both. It's fully cycled, and up for 5 days. Everyday is 0-0-5 and today is 0-0-10. I used the biomedia from my 29 gallon and the sponge and it's only a 5g. There's no problems with the obvious water parameters. No swings or spikes.
 

richiep

Can you guarantee you gh is above 5 if not the shrimp will have moult issues and die, and did you drip acclimate them, the ones that died how long have they been in there
 

Keicola46

Can you guarantee you gh is above 5 if not the shrimp will have moult issues and die, and did you drip acclimate them, the ones that died how long have they been in there

I went out yesterday & bought a tester. Unfortunately all they had was the dip strips for GH/KH. It's on the low side, but everything is acceptable. It tells you in PPM not degrees and I had to convert it KH is pretty low, but ok and GH same thing.
In PPM the GH is around 60 or so. I then tested my 29 which had a higher GH (lower KH) so I did a 20 percent water change and replaced it with aquarium water. And I even dripped it into the shrimp tank as to stress them as little as possible.
I see two new molts in the back of the tank this morning! Not the first ones I have seen, but that doesn't mean your not correct about GH. I have mineral rocks and tourmaline balls as well as trace mineral additive. Ppl keep recommending the shrimp slats KH/GH+ but unfortunately it wouldnt be here till almost mid March. My TDS tester will be in today. I had no deaths this am. We shall see when I get outta work.
Oh and acclimation, yes I floated the bag and over a period of 40 min put little bits of water in at a time. And the ones that dies,never loner the 8 hours and that's if they just happened to die right when I went to work or bed. Most still had color on it when I found them so couldn't be to long.
Thank you for your help also!!
 

richiep

GH of 60 ppm is between 3 and 4 anything below 5 can cause moult issues I try to advise to aI'm for GH 7 or 125 ppm to avoid issues and KH of around 53ish ppm ph dropping to 1 or 0 can cause a PH crash which then leads to other problems. dripping them the way you have always has its problems and risks all shrimp should be dripped for cherries I say 2hrs to be safe many people do it like you and will normally end up loosing a few WHY well its the shock of the water change to quick, although cherries are hardier than others there is a limit to what they can take some people get away with it some don't, the main thing with all shrimp tanks is stability once you've got that your tank will thrive and that means getting you GH/KH & PH along with other water parameters to a safe and stable reading. Don't think for one minute you have to follow what I've said but over the years it's things I've been advised to do and some I've learnt myself and sometimes to my expense and i'm still learning. hope some of this helps you out
 

Keicola46

GH of 60 ppm is between 3 and 4 anything below 5 can cause moult issues I try to advise to aI'm for GH 7 or 125 ppm to avoid issues and KH of around 53ish ppm ph dropping to 1 or 0 can cause a PH crash which then leads to other problems. dripping them the way you have always has its problems and risks all shrimp should be dripped for cherries I say 2hrs to be safe many people do it like you and will normally end up loosing a few WHY well its the shock of the water change to quick, although cherries are hardier than others there is a limit to what they can take some people get away with it some don't, the main thing with all shrimp tanks is stability once you've got that your tank will thrive and that means getting you GH/KH & PH along with other water parameters to a safe and stable reading. Don't think for one minute you have to follow what I've said but over the years it's things I've been advised to do and some I've learnt myself and sometimes to my expense and i'm still learning. hope some of this helps you out

Well I wrote a whole reply to this but I don't see it so I'll type the quick version..
The place I got the shrimp is a well known fish store in my area, not like Petco or anything, and they said no longer than 40 minutes. Their reasoning behind that was to try to balance the stress and acclimation, so that's why I did it that way. I also asked them when I bought the shrimp if I needed to worry about the Gh and Kh. "No" was the reply I got. I don't quite understand that cuz everyone else disagrees. Their shrimp do fine tho. Many little guys I'm their tank. Maybe they don't need to worry, but I feel like they should have told me that I should at least test it. Id also like to ask you if my plan sounds reasonable. I can't get the shrimpsalts till mid March, so I'm gonna go buy some seachem equilibrium after work and use that to raise my GH and baking soda to rise my KH slightly. I don't want to effect my pH as I know baking soda will, so I will also mix in seachem neutral regulator to keep the pH stable and the same. I use chemipure so that stuff does a great job at locking your pH in. Actually quite hard to raise your pH while using that. Anyways, so that's my plan unless you think of something better, and that I can get at a store near me, not online since I want to start fixing this now.

So if you think that sounds ok, what would be a safe amount to raise Gh & KH daily causing as little stress as possible but also enough where if that is the problem, I don't lose any more. Or at least dramatically slows down.

And I absolutely appreciate your advice and definitely helps out!!
 

richiep

The reasoning behind the acclimation is to take out stress once introduced and also to bring your tank water to what's in the bag, that advise is bad practice and only puts the shrimp into shock and jeopardises life, and the gh/kh is the most important factor in a shrimp tank once your other water perameters are met, get that wrong and it's dead shrimp, I've seen this all to many times so please just be careful, doing to much in one go I'd say is not a good idea you've got to many things going on, unless someone else comes up with something better I'd start with the seachem equilibrium and go from there once its settled, I've never used baking soda or neutral regulators and don't know what the impact will be, all mine is RO water with salty bee minerals. Equilibrium is going to work on kh & gh the kh as a bearing on your ph so don't add anything else until you've got to where you want with equilibrium, your shrimp tank is 5gall do your weekly water change should be 4ltrs, so you want to put 4ltr in your container with prime or similar then work out from the equilibrium instructions to bring your gh to 6 or 7 125ppm now at the moment your gh is 3 or 4, 60ppm so when you do a water change and with dilution it will come up a point or two into a safe zone, 4ltr is not a lot to drip into your tank and your close to what I class as a safe zone, so in this case drip as long as you can if you don't get it all in carry on the next day or leave it drip once every 2 or three seconds over night, once its all in leave it a day and take gh/kh readings this hopefully put you in the safe zone

Sorry I was long with the reply my dragon had me doing some painting
 

Keicola46

Ok that's exactly what I will do. So my goal for GH is 125ppm ish right and my KH will increase slightly as my GH increases with the use of equilibrium? If I'm at say 60 ppm now, maybe go up 30 ppm today and another 35 tomorrow? Of course over a period of hour or more, more I'm sure being safer. That sound good?
 

richiep

Your gh and kh are separate its only the kh as a bearing over ph so equilibrium is doing two jobs and should do away with anything else
 

Keicola46

Sorry I was long with the reply my dragon had me doing some painting

No problem man I appreciate your reply period

Your gh and kh are separate its only the kh as a bearing over ph so equilibrium is doing two jobs and should do away with anything else

Right, sry if I made it seem like the same. I understand the difference, I was asking if the equilibrium will take care of both, and ur answer is yes if I'm understanding correctly. Some websites say your KH should be almost nonexistent, others say the opposite. My experience is you should always have a decent KH or else your risking pH swings. So 30-35 ppm a day for GH safe? And Id like my KH up a little, if the equilibrium takes care of that then, cool. If not I'll have to do something about that but I'm gonna take ur advice and use only equilibrium for now, get my GH to a safe level then I will measure my KH again. My TDS tester will be I'm today as well so I will have those numbers later on.
 

richiep

Yes you got it and your right if you leave the kh drop to zero you run the risk of a ph crash
 

Keicola46

Ok then that's what I will do. Last question...for now... When I test my TDS, what's my target range and how would I correct it if it's wrong
 

richiep

TDs and cherries have a big range I know of some in 500tds and myself its 96 but mine is based on the gh measurement in RO water so once you've got the gh where you want it take a tds reading and that's where it will be every time you do a mix with equilibrium. You'll still need to do regular checks on your parameters mind, and when the pocket allows send for the API gh/kh liquid test kit it will last ages and you'll refine your water as they are very accurate
 

Keicola46

TDs and cherries have a big range I know of some in 500tds and myself its 96 but mine is based on the gh measurement in RO water so once you've got the gh where you want it take a tds reading and that's where it will be every time you do a mix with equilibrium. You'll still need to do regular checks on your parameters mind, and when the pocket allows send for the API gh/kh liquid test kit it will last ages and you'll refine your water as they are very accurate

Ok I'm gonna order that today, it should be in on Friday. I'm gonna use that equilibrium today and get my GH up, take a TDS reading, and if you don't mind and I'm unsure of my parameters are okay, I'm gonna get back to you and ask your opinion. I really appreciate your help here
 

richiep

Not a problem the help is here as long as needed
 

Keicola46

Not a problem the help is here as long as needed

Well thank you! Another dead this am. The rate of dying shrimp has definitely decreased, but that's still not my acceptable 0. And my TDS tester is gonna be a day late so it will be in today now. I also took your advice and rushed a order or API liquid GH/KH tester, which will also be in today.
I found the shrimp king shrimp salts KH/GH+!
Cut the dose in half and just put the 2ed half in this morning. I'm now at a KH of 80 ppm, and a GH of around 120 ppm! So things definitely looking better there. I noticed a small ammonia spike this morning also of .25. not much, yet. Maybe another dead shrimp or two? My tank is heavily planted so id have to rip everything out to find it (if that is the problem) and I don't wanna do that. Not just cuz of the amount of work but also the added stress factor on these little dudes. I had some TSS I decided to put on this morning instead of prime because my pH is at a 7.2 so hopefully it's not too toxic and because it's low so while I had the opportunity to add the TSS, I did. I'm sure u know it's either prime or TSS, can't be both within 24hrs. The TSS bottle has already been open for almost a week so hopefully the bacteria was still alive and well.
I'm gonna do another round of testing when I get home and all my testers come in. Really hope this stops and now that the GH/KH/pH are all at good levels (correct??) My shrimps live. They seem totally happy. So about this new ammonia spike, I really do not want to take everything out of my tank. I know they eat each other so hopefully whatever/whoever is/was/maybe dead is gone.
I spent so so much Money on this tank already, I sincerely hope this gets figured out.

Heavily planted
1551346372799.jpg
 

richiep

I won't make excuses as I don't do that but the dead shrimp may still be from the past water problems where they may have problems with this moult, try and take s photo if you can of the dead in the tank, don't strip the tank down the others will eat them plus you may cause other problems, again the API liquid ammonia test is better and more accurate, your ph is great, let things settle now give the shrimp a chance produce, hopefully your deaths will slow or stop, you are in a safe zone with the water the ammonia is the only concern and that's if the strips are reading right. Something I've missed reading your thread is the ghost shrimp they can be very aggressive to cherries and been known to kill them they will also eat young cherries, keep an eye on them to see if they are aggressive toward the cherries, last thing for now do another ammonia test and apart from water conditioner and the shrimp king salt don't put any other chemicals in the tank, the shrimp king minerals should have the exact dose on it, mix it test is before going in the tank I find best this way you'll not put to much in,
 

Keicola46

I used the liquid API test kit, it's only the liquid GH & KH I'm missing. Coming in today with the TDS so I should have a more accurate reading of that stuff later. As far as the dead shrimp, I pull them out as sssoon I see them. I don't see any dead ones, but with my ammonia spike it makes me think that there might be one hidden. To find it though I would have to rip the tank apart, and I'm not even sure that's the problem or there is a dead one that's raising the ammonia. I'll test again when I get home
 

BuddyD

I tried Shrimp 5 or so times and the kept dying. I stopped and a few months later ended up with an extra 20G Long tank. So I put CaribSea Torpedo Beach gravel in my tank, Cholla Wood, Couple of small very white rocks. I got Java Moss and attached it to the Cholla. I got a terra cotta housing project (LOL).
In an order of fish for my other tanks, they sent subwassertang? and it over the terra cotta.
I took the chance after adding a 100 gal capacity cannister filter that had been running over a month in my other tank to get bacteria built up. Then ordered some Shrimp. They finally survived. Now I must have 100 or more. One thing I do, I don't bother with the tank. If the water evaporates down an inch or close to it, I add and top it off. I give a little Prime and Flourish for the plants. Nothing else. I feed every other day HakarI Algae Wafers (Mine go right for them). There are 4 otos with them.
 

richiep

All shrimp tanks need 3 months to get good biofilm and stability going before the colony gets going and I'm think that you tank BuddyD wasn't ready for shrimp and now it's a complete turn around, there's so many things going on with immature tanks that shrimp just can't take it, you did the right think to give it a few months, with the shrimp jumping at the wafers when add them is just what you want to happen, I'm glad you stuck with it
 

Keicola46

I won't make excuses as I don't do that but the dead shrimp may still be from the past water problems where they may have problems with this moult, try and take s photo if you can of the dead in the tank, don't strip the tank down the others will eat them plus you may cause other problems, again the API liquid ammonia test is better and more accurate, your ph is great, let things settle now give the shrimp a chance produce, hopefully your deaths will slow or stop, you are in a safe zone with the water the ammonia is the only concern and that's if the strips are reading right. Something I've missed reading your thread is the ghost shrimp they can be very aggressive to cherries and been known to kill them they will also eat young cherries, keep an eye on them to see if they are aggressive toward the cherries, last thing for now do another ammonia test and apart from water conditioner and the shrimp king salt don't put any other chemicals in the tank, the shrimp king minerals should have the exact dose on it, mix it test is before going in the tank I find best this way you'll not put to much in,
Ok so my TDS reading is crazy high at 630ppm, 7dkh and 9 Gh

I feel outta my element here. I'm gonna go get some RO water or something and try to bring my TDS down. 2 more dead when I got home today.

So can you just clarify this for me again...
TDS should be around 200, KH is kinda whatever as long as it's not zero (not sure) and GH should be close to where I am, at around 7 degrees?? How do I lower my TDS while keeping GH same??
 

richiep

The only way to get tds down is to use RO water shrimp will be lethargic and breed slow and can also kill
 

Keicola46

If I use RO water? And what is my target levels here?
 

richiep

Whstx your tds out of the tap
Ok the gh 7 to 15. kh can be as low as 1 but I like 3
Ph 7 to 8. high tds is a problem, ro water will have 0 to 10 even higher is ok. With pure RO water everything is 0 except ph which will be 7= natural, so with those readings you then add your minerals this in turn higher your gh which you want at 7 to 15 your kh will also go up respectively with those minerals, once you've got your gh where you want your tds may only read 150 and that's fine as the key player in ro water is your gh, once you've worked out how much minerals to add to get to your gh whatever your TDs reading is then that's your target for mixing in the future, you also use the tds meter during the week to see how stable things are. I hope I'm not confusing you with this but read it through z few times once you grasp it it's simple. if you made the move to ro water it's the best move you'll ever make for shrimp
 

Keicola46

Whstx your tds out of the tap
Ok the gh 7 to 15. kh can be as low as 1 but I like 3
Ph 7 to 8. high tds is a problem, ro water will have 0 to 10 even higher is ok. With pure RO water everything is 0 except ph which will be 7= natural, so with those readings you then add your minerals this in turn higher your gh which you want at 7 to 15 your kh will also go up respectively with those minerals, once you've got your gh where you want your tds may only read 150 and that's fine as the key player in ro water is your gh, once you've worked out how much minerals to add to get to your gh whatever your TDs reading is then that's your target for mixing in the future, you also use the tds meter during the week to see how stable things are. I hope I'm not confusing you with this but read it through z few times once you grasp it it's simple. if you made the move to ro water it's the best move you'll ever make for shrimp

Got the RO I'm slowing adding. I figured out why my TDS was so high, my tap pH is very low and I always have used seachem neutral regulator. I put some in a cup and tested it and it's definitely that. Just a tiny bit in a cup shot my TDS from 15 in the RO to 450. Won't use that again. Shouldn't have to now with the shrimp salts. So over the next day or so I'm gonna try to slowly bring everything into acceptable range. Hoping to get my TDS down to at least 400 today. AI'm for another 200 tomorrow.

Thank you for all your help and patience. I'm very grateful. Hopefully my shrimp more so.

Got the RO I'm slowing adding. I figured out why my TDS was so high, my tap pH is very low and I always have used seachem neutral regulator. I put some in a cup and tested it and it's definitely that. Just a tiny bit in a cup shot my TDS from 15 in the RO to 450. Won't use that again. Shouldn't have to now with the shrimp salts. So over the next day or so I'm gonna try to slowly bring everything into acceptable range. Hoping to get my TDS down to at least 400 today. AI'm for another 200 tomorrow.

Thank you for all your help and patience. I'm very grateful. Hopefully my shrimp more so.
 

richiep

Slower the better you seem to have your head around things and know exactly what to do. Don't rush dropping it
 

richiep

It will all come together now even if you loose a couple more your going to get stability,
 

Keicola46

I expect to lose another couple, it's a lot of changes in a short period of time. I have these beautiful looking really light sky blue ones supposed to come in tomorrow (ordered them before this happened) so I want to be in the ballpark by the time they come in. I figure they can take a 200tds drop if nothing else changes. Hopefully this is it. I think I have a handle on this now, thanks to you.
 

richiep

There is another way to do it but don't know if its practical, you catch all the shrimp put in a container with tank water, do one big water change then drip your shrimp over 4hrs even 5 this way they get re acclimatised, if it's not possible then its damage limitation with new ones coming, make sure you give them a good long drip and put some moss in with them, as if you don't know that anyway
 

Keicola46

There is another way to do it but don't know if its practical, you catch all the shrimp put in a container with tank water, do one big water change then drip your shrimp over 4hrs even 5 this way they get re acclimatised, if it's not possible then its damage limitation with new ones coming, make sure you give them a good long drip and put some moss in with them, as if you don't know that anyway

I thought about that as a last resort. My TSS is now 418, KH is 1, GH is 9. I'm gonna test ammonia tomorrow and if that is still there especially after that 30 percent water change I just did, then I'm probably gonna end up doing that. One, to find my dead shrimp (s) and two, I really don't wanna lose the baby blues coming tomorrow so it might be worth it to get everything good so I can finally leave it alone to stabilize.
 

richiep

I think that's wise don't worry to much about the dead one its natural for the other shrimp to eat them, I'd hold on the gh/kh that's good things should get better with what you've done, I don't know if the big fast change will harm what's left
 

BuddyD

All shrimp tanks need 3 months to get good biofilm and stability going before the colony gets going and I'm think that you tank BuddyD wasn't ready for shrimp and now it's a complete turn around, there's so many things going on with immature tanks that shrimp just can't take it, you did the right think to give it a few months, with the shrimp jumping at the wafers when add them is just what you want to happen, I'm glad you stuck with it

I should have made it clear that the 20G long tank was not set up. It was an empty extra tank.
All this was done in 3 days. The canister, 2 rocks, Cholla Wood with Java, had been in a separate tank for a month. All I did was put our Colorado Tap water in the tank, then added the wood, rock, and canister.
Two days later the Shrimp arrived, aclimated them, then put them in the tank. The BB in the filter, and any on the cholla and rock, I believe is what jump started the tank.
The tank the previous shrimp died in was my 30 gal. I emptied it, cleaned it. and now it sits with Mystery Snails and 1 SAE my wife got not knowing better. I haven't decided what to put in the 30 yet.
 

richiep

How you got away with that BuddyD is beyond me I'd have thought the tank should still have cycled, but something happened there allowing you to put shrimp in, as I've said many times some get away with it and some don't, I'm glad it worked for you
 

Keicola46

As far as the bio film, I have it just starting after a week of using Bacter AE. richie.p btw, my 29 gallon has a TDS of 940!! I never worried about TDS or GH in a fish tank, but that number cannot be good for them. Double the legal limit. The fish seem fine tho. Had these guys over a year. Rarely have any deaths, but when I saw that number pop up it scared me. Again just confirming it's that seachem neutral regulator. I'm gonna look for another way to adjust my pH. What do you think about starting to use the shrimp salts to bring my pH up instead from now on in the fish tank? Can't be as bad what I'm using now with that number
 

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