Question Shrimp and ICH

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pinksprklmonkey

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I have discovered ICH on my molly fry that are in a 10 gallon with some ghost shrimp.

I was thinking of treating the fry in a separate tank. But will the 10 always be infested with ICH? I am treating my 55 with temp at 85 and Rid-ICH. It appears to be working with the fish that have thus far survived.

I don't want to hurt the shrimp, but I don't want to put something in this tank at a later date and have problems with ICH. How should I deal with the shrimp and ICH in the 10?

Please help.
 

Shine

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ICH LIFECYCLE
1.Trophozoites mature in the skin of the fish.
2.Trophont (mature trophozoite) leaves the fish.
3.Trophont produces tomites.
4.Trophont bursts and tomites are released.
5.Tomites penetrate the skin of the fish, and the cycle is repeated.

Since we understand that we cannot kill ich while it is on the fish, we know that moving a fish to a quarantine tank to treat will not solve the problem in the main tank. The time to use a quarantine tank is before a new fish is introduced into a display tank. If a fish in a tank has ich, you must assume that the entire tank is now contaminated with ich and must be treated.

Another way to get ich out of a tank is to remove all of the fish. Since we know that the tomites can only survive for 48 hours without attaching to a fish, if we remove all of the fish and then raise the temperature to 80°, the existing ich in the tank should be dead after 2 days. To be safe, wait 4 days before returning the fish to the tank. But remember, you will need to treat the tank that the fish are moved to, otherwise, fish entering that tank could become infected.

So basically if there are no fish the ich will die off. But you will still have to treat the fish themselves or you will just be re-introducing it back into the tank. With shrimp I would be cautious about raising the temp too high, so I wouldn't put any fish in the tank for longer then the 2-4 days they suggest here. And no: shrimp can't 'get' ich
 
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Jaysee

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I partially disagree about assuming the whole tank is infected and treating the whole tank. OFTEN times, if one fish gets it the rest tend to but that's because it's almost always a water quality issue, and ALL the fish are subjected to it. There are cases where individual fish get sick because of specific things stressing the fish. Also, fish that are old tend to get sick. With cases like those, it's not necessary to treat the whole tank IME.
 

Aquarist

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Good morning,

I respectfully disagree Jaysee.

I feel that if 1 fish is infected with ICH then the entire tank should be treated. By moving an infected fish to quarantine and leaving the tank mates behind only creates two tanks that may now have the parasite.

The way this parasite can spread so quickly, I wouldn't risk the lives of my other fish by not treating the entire tank.

Pink, I'm not sure what the Rid Ich effects are going to be on your cycle/good bacteria. Some medications can destroy the good bacteria so be sure to keep an eye on your readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, pH. Usually increasing the temperature to 86 degrees will rid the tank of ICH without the use of medications. However, in severe cases medicines may be the only option. ICH may appear worse before it gets better.

It's also been noted that some strains of ICH can survive in temperatures as high as 86 degrees. This may not be true for all strains so I still recommend that the increased temperature be set at 86. (80 degrees stated in previous post, IMO just isn't high enough).

Best wishes for a full recovery Pink!

Ken

I have moved your thread to the Freshwater Fish Disease section of the forum.
Thanks!
 
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Jaysee

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Well, I guess I've been dodging bullets all this time.

I recently had a single fish with ich, so I removed it and treated it. I did not treat the main tank - none of the other fish were or got infected. That's not an isolated incident, nor was I lucky. Luck can't be counted on.

Anyway, are shrimp even able to get ich? I've never seen it.
 

Aquarist

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Good morning Jaysee,

To my knowledge shrimp cannot get ICH. If anyone has any information stating differently by all means post it

Ken
 

sirdarksol

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First, info for Pink:
You could use temperature. I've never heard of anyone here having ich survive through two weeks of 83 degrees, but I am seeing articles that suggest 86. I'm trying to find the correct information, but all of the scientific articles about ich only look at using chemicals to deal with infestations. Sadly, I think most of the articles are getting their info from the Wikipedia page, which is a huge mess and is about 75% personal hypothesis. There are "citation needed" notes that have been up for over two years and have not been dealt with.

It is possible to use salt to treat the 10g. I would strongly suggest using temperature treatment, but both mollies and ghost shrimp are brackish (and, in the case of ghost shrimp, marine) adaptable, and will tolerate a two week treatment of salt. You'll want to end up at about two tablespoons of salt (preferably marine, but aquarium will work, as it will only be for a short time) in the tank, but you want to spread that addition out over several days. You'd also want to mix the salt into some water before adding it to the tank (to avoid burning any fry with the salt). Once the treatment is over, slowly reduce the salinity by doing 10% water changes (without adding salt, of course).

On to the rest of the thread:
I don't believe that shrimp can get ich. I think their shells protect them against the parasite.

Treating just the fish is a risk. Because most stages of ich don't actually live on the fish, it is very safe to presume that, if you can see the parasites on your fish, there are more living in the water or encysted in the substrate. Not treating the entire tank is basically hoping that there won't be enough parasites to overwhelm the other fish, or that other fish won't get stressed out enough to be affected, particularly since something in your aquarium has already stressed at least one fish out.
 

sirdarksol

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It's a possibility, though it would be a narrow window (the shells start hardening very quickly after molting), and I don't know how the hardening shell would deal with a parasite (basically, would it push the parasite away, or would it harden around it?)
 

Shine

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From everything I have read shrimp can't get it, nor can snails... but they can 'carry' the parasite or cysts on their shells, so if you moved them to an unaffected tank they could infect that tank. The same way as moving water from an infected tank to a clear one, plants, or using the same nets from tank to tank would do.

I don't know how high of temps shrimp can deal with, but the reason that one article said 80* was that they were talking about a tank with no fish in it. If shrimp can handle it, I'd definately go higher. Ich will die if it doesn't find a host in its larval stage, so turning up the heat is more about speeding up the process then anything else if there are no fish to infect. At lower temps (eg/ 66*) the cysts may not open up for weeks or even a month or more.... 'hibernating' until better conditions exist.
 
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sirdarksol

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Ghost shrimp are native to Southern US. I think they may be able to handle 86 degrees. If you choose to go that high, I would suggest forgoing the salt, as the temperature alone will be enough to kill the parasites.
 
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