Should I Start Again?

EDIT: See 2 pics I posted as requested a few messages down.

I have owned one Betta for almost 4 weeks. It has been a disaster, but the fish is still alive. I am considering emptying the 5 gallon aquarium and starting again, putting my little fish in a 2.5 gallon clear cookie jar until I get it going. Not sure if I should.

Background:
1. Bought fish on a whI'm for daughter, in a 1 gallon tank
2. Got home and googled, saw it was cruel having a small container, bought 5 gallon Fluval tank with filter, and heater
3. Inserted fish and plants in new tank! Fish was so happy, swum around with new area like mad
4. Within a few days, Anubias plants got white fuzz. They soon died.
5. A week ago, algae bloom started.
6. Yesterday I noticed the beginning of what I am guessing is fin rot.

Between the algae bloom and the white fuzz, and now the fin rot, I feel like there is too much junk/poison in my tank, and I should remove my fish, and start again. Let the little guy heal in a clean 2.5 gallon tank, and clean the bigger tank and start fresh.

What do you think?

 

No, you don't have anything in tank that warrants starting over.
What are your water parameters: Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates?
How often do you change water? What are your maintenance procedures?
pH? Temperature?
What are you feeding and how much daily?
Can you post a picture of whole tank and Betta so we can see how severe the damage to fins are?

 

Take your fish and put him in something with fresh clean conditioned, water. That right there will already help the Betta. Betta's are the toughest cookies on the block and can bounce back from the worst of conditions. Change his water often, give him love and food. Meanwhile clean your 5 gallon really well. Rinse the substrate you have and you may want to get fresh plants. Any decor you may have clean that as well. Change your filter media and let the tank re-run. In worst case scenarios like this, let the tank run for 24 hours and make sure water perams are okay. Then put your Betta in there. The tank won't be cycled however your Betta needs good clean water. If you are worried about fin rot I recommend getting Indian Almond Leaves and putting half a leaf in there with him. The water will turn yellow but that is a good thing for your betta. If he is the only fish or creature in that tank then i'd say it'd be safe to put him in there right after the tank has been well cleaned.

 

More background:

I just received the measuring kit on Friday. I have not taken measurements, but I can if it is necessary. (If the "lore" of this forum said start again, it would not be necessary to measure anything, which I was kind of hoping.)

I had been doing a 15% water change 1x/week. A couple days ago, I did a 30-35% change because the algae looked so bad. (I changed 2 gallons... tank is 5.6 gallon, so whatever that is.)

Temperature is 77-79 degrees. (I have heater and accurate thermometer.)

I feed 4-6 Betta pellets every other day. Sure, I will take a quick pic and post shortly.

Take your fish and put him in something with fresh clean conditioned, water. That right there will already help... Change your filter media and let the tank re-run. In worst case scenarios like this, let the tank run for 24 hours and make sure water perams are okay.

So it is ok to put my betta in the 2.5 gallon temporary holder, that I just conditioned? (This is the equivalent of a 100% water change -- is that ok?)

And for the main tank, are you saying get rid of all of the water, or use the yucky water that is there and try to clean things up?

 

I would cut back feeding of pellets to 2 pellets once a day. 5-6 pellets every other day is a lot of food for the fish to eat in one sitting. That may be contributing to high organics in the water-- which could lead to high nitrates, stress, and disease ( and algae bloom).
I would also recommend a water change of 50% weekly. This will help immensely in keeping the organic load down and your fish healthy.

 

Here are pics of sad tank and fish.

 

In the short term: It it looks like all you need to do to get your fish well is daily water changes. Doesn't look too severe to me to call for medication. The water is cloudy, however, this is most likely an algae bloom from high organics in water.
For the next week I would do 50% water changes and gravel vacuum a section of the tank ( four quadrants) each day to clean up any uneaten food, waste, etc...
Can I get the readings from the water test? You may need to change more than 50% of the water initially.
Long term: Weekly water changes of 50% (along with weekly gravel vacs) and smaller feedings daily.

 

Thanks. So do you agree you see the beginning of fin rot?

To be clear, you seem to be suggesting a complete restart is overkill, just keep cleaning the existing tank? (I kind of like the thought of starting fresh?)

And should I still temporarily move my fish to a smaller, 100% clean container, until he heals?

Also, FWIW I am keeping the tank covered from light, to kill the algae, at the request from a LFS guy. I am on day 2 of a 7 day black out. This seems like another reason to keep my little guy in the other (non-covered) tank.

Thanks!

 

The only reason you would start over is if you had a recent outbreak of viral infection ( that is not what this is) or chemicals dumped in tank.
Yes, starting over is overkill, especially if you are cycled.
To be honest, the issues you are having are due to overfeeding and lack of proper cleaning of tank. This happens--- to all of us. If you started over and did exactly what you have been doing you would end up in the same place.
No, it is not necessary to move your fish to another tank. This may do more harm than good because it will not be cycled. You may inadvertently expose your fish to rising ammonia and nitrites. Just change the water daily in the tank he is in now. It will not take long to get your tank nice and clean.
What color is your algae?
Edit: yes, beginning fin rot.

 

HI OP. I haven't seen any mention on this thread about if / how you cycled, or are planning to cycle your tank. Do you know about the nitrogen cycle? (It's ok if you don't, we all started off like that!)

If a fish is put into an uncycled tank, ammonia and then nitrites will rise to a point at which it will harm the fish (fin rot can be a sign) and eventually kill them. You can do a fish-in cycle but this requires regular (usually daily) large water changes and daily testing of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Or you can use a bacteria supplement like Tetra SafeStart Plus or Seachem Stability which short-cuts this process and works well IF USED CORRECTLY. If you want the directions for this, I can link you.

Moving the fish will just move the problem to the new container. The issue is that you need to get your tank cycled. If it makes you feel better to temporarily move the betta so you can give the tank a good clean and replace everything, that's fine, but you'll still be in the same situation afterwards.

I wouldn't worry about the white fuzz anubias.

FWIW I don't think your fishkeeping has been a disaster. Just normal beginner teething problems

 

I haven't seen any mention on this thread about if / how you cycled, or are planning to cycle your tank

I have repeatedly asked for water parameters, from these numbers I grasp where OP is in cycle... it is a process.

 

Sorry Discusluv I didn't mean you hadn't asked, I meant there wasn't any indication that the OP knew what cycling was as he hasn't mentioned it, so he might not know the implication of water parameters.

 

I have an idea about cycling. I definitely did not do it. I just stuck my fish in with a plant.

I am not trying to avoid the water readings! Just haven't done them yet. (Well, I WAS hoping to avoid them if the consensus was "start fresh".) I have never done them. It is hard to fit so many new things into a day, especially when all I signed up for was a fish in a 1 gallon tank that would pretty well be fine with minimal effort.

I will provide readings later today or early tomorrow. (I figure I need 30 minutes to figure it out and do it first time. But like everything else with this "hobby" I am probably underestimating. *Sigh*)

One quick thing: how does Petsmart keep there fish in such small, unfiltered, unheated containers without issues? Do they do 100% water changes daily? And if so, how are their fish (mostly) ok?

 

Here are some begineers articles for you to read Op. Pay specisl attention to the cycling one. Do what Discusluv recommends, shes one I tag when my fish get sick. But these are good reading in your free time.

Important - Important Cycling Information
Important Cycling Information

READ FIRST: Freshwater Beginner Important Topics
READ FIRST: Freshwater Beginner Important Topics

One quick thing: how does Petsmart keep there fish in such small, unfiltered, unheated containers without issues? Do they do 100% water changes daily? And if so, how are their fish (mostly) ok?

Yes they do 100%, but most here despise those small cruel containers for these very reasons. Like you or I stuck in a closet.

 

Pet stores have massive powerful filters that all their tanks are connected too. So even though it looks like they are in tiny crowded display tanks, they are actually swimming in 100s of litres of powerfully filtered water, if that makes sense. That handles the bioload and explains why they don't all die. In terms of the space they actually need to grow and thrive, you're quite right they don't have that, but it's intended they will only be in the store for a few days/weeks so while not ideal they can survive.

If you aren't keen on water testing, I personally would recommend a supplement like SafeStart Plus to cycle your tank. You do a big water change (clean the tank out fully if you like and replace 100% of the water, as you're not cycled now it makes no difference), and add dechlorinator. Wait 24 hours, then add a full bottle for your size tank (you can't overdose) after shaking vigorously for a few minutes. Then you wait for 2 weeks and do nothing. No testing, no water changes. After that you should be cycled.

I would still recommend weekly water testing until your tank is established, and also if your fish are having any problems like the fin rot. But SafeStart takes out the need for daily testing and large water changes which is unavoidable with fish-in cycling.

(I don't work for Tetra btw I have just used SafeStart twice with good results.)

Either way you NEED to get your tank cycled or your fish will die, it's really as simple as that. (Not saying that to make you feel bad - it's just I know in fishkeeping it can be hard to separate the "essential to survive" from the "nice to have" - and I want you to know this is right at the top of the essential category). There are good explanations of the nitrogen cycle on Fishlore, have a look through. EDIT - toolman has linked to these while I was typing

 

I have repeatedly asked for water parameters, from these numbers I grasp where OP is in cycle... it is a process.

HI Discusluv!
First, I appreciate your help. You are a great asset to this site.

I did not mean to avoid providing the numbers. I wanted to post them today, but the tank is in my daughter's room (it is her fish, supposedly LOL) and she went to bed earlier than normal tonight. I will post the numbers tomorrow for sure.

For now, I have quarantined our fish in a 2.5 gallon clear cookie jar. It is heated, but not filtered. I read for fin rot a quarantine is warranted, and adding some Aquarium Salt will go a long way in repairing the fins. (Unfortunately the salt does not arrive until Wednesday.) Should I be doing 50% daily water changes or even 100% while in this unfiltered tank? Unless you advise against it, I may keep Swimmy (the fishes name) in this smaller tank for sometime while I bring the main tank up to par.

Thanks so much!

 

HI Discusluv!
First, I appreciate your help. You are a great asset to this site.

I did not mean to avoid providing the numbers. I wanted to post them today, but the tank is in my daughter's room (it is her fish, supposedly LOL) and she went to bed earlier than normal tonight. I will post the numbers tomorrow for sure.

For now, I have quarantined our fish in a 2.5 gallon clear cookie jar. It is heated, but not filtered. I read for fin rot a quarantine is warranted, and adding some Aquarium Salt will go a long way in repairing the fins. (Unfortunately the salt does not arrive until Wednesday.) Should I be doing 50% daily water changes or even 100% while in this unfiltered tank? Unless you advise against it, I may keep Swimmy (the fishes name) in this smaller tank for sometime while I bring the main tank up to par.

Thanks so much!

When you test your water parameters tomorrow let me know what it is- we will evaluate from here what the best way to move forward is. The fish will be okay overnight. You can use regular salt as long as it is uniodized- most salt that we use is-- just take a look on the labeling. Talk tomorrow.

 

As promised, here are measurements:

No, you don't have anything in tank that What are your water parameters: Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates?
How often do you change water? What are your maintenance procedures?
pH? Temperature?

Main Tank (5 gallon, currently no fish, with heater, with filter)
Temp: 81 degrees
PH: 6.8 or so
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0 <--- edit: see update 2 messages below

Small tank (2.5 gallon, with fish, heater but no filter)
Temp: 80 degrees
PH: also 6.8 or so
Ammonia: .50 ppm (probably less)
Nitrites: did not measure
Nitrates: did not measure

I have never done the tests before. I went to youtube, and followed the instructions. A couple comments: The pH test was difficult -- nothing really matched my color chart. The color was light blue, with no green in it. Really it was a close match for the Nitrite chart, with 0ppm. (Which is light blue). Bottom line, there was no `green`in my Ph, unlike the pH chart. But the closest match was 6.8 pH for my water straight out of tap, as well as in my tank, based on color darkness (though not green-ness).

I am surprised the Ammonia is higher in the small tank, which got a 100% water change yesterday? (Though the fish has been in there since yesterday.) Should I change it 100% again? (I plan on keeping Swimmy in there while he recuperates.) 75% change would be easier, cuz then I can keep him in there while I do it...

I am also surprised the Nitrite and Nitrates are 0! My tank is still cloudy, so it certainly doesn`t look clean. With no nitrites or nitrates does this mean it is miraculously cycled?

 

Your tank isn't cycled until it shows 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5+ nitrates.

 

Your tank isn't cycled until it shows 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5+ nitrates.

Can you tell how far along I am?

 

it now started....could take weeks

 

So I re-did Nitrates, because I read other people that had 0 readings may not have shaken hard enough. I REALLLLYY shook it.

It came out very yellow again, but a darker yellow than the color chart. Not orange though. So I think it is still close to 0ppm, but not absolute zero.

Also, my daughter is going to bed, so I made an executive decision to do a 50% water change of the small cookie jar tank. (Tank is in her room.)