Should I Let Ammonia Drop To 0 Ppm?

I'm doing a fishless cycle. After using a full bottle of TSS+ on day 3 I used Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride to bring the ammonia to 2.0ppm. On day 14 it dropped between 0.25 - 0.50ppm and I brought it back up to 2.0ppm. It's now Day 23 and the ammonia is down to 0.25ppm. Should I let it drop to 0 completely before dosing to 2.0ppm again?

Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 40
PH: Somewhere 7.6 and higher. I also did a high range PH test but it showed a color not on the chart. The last test I did before that was day 4 and it was 8.0.


EDIT:
I'm using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit for my water tests.

 

No, dose it again to 2 ppm. When it drops to 0 after 24 hrs a couple days in a row, you're cycled! Almost there! Good job!

 

Just posting another update from quite a while ago. It's now day 59 and the bacteria still seems to be processing only about 0.25 - 0.50ppm ammonia within 24 hours.

Current Readings:

Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 80-160ppm
PH: 7.4
Normal water temperature: 68-70 F

Is this normal considering I'm not using a heater? It's pretty much been 2 months. Is there anything else I can do (besides use a heater)?

 

Just posting another update from quite a while ago. It's now day 59 and the bacteria still seems to be processing only about 0.25 - 0.50ppm ammonia within 24 hours.

Current Readings:

Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 80-160ppm
PH: 7.4
Normal water temperature: 68-70 F

Is this normal considering I'm not using a heater? It's pretty much been 2 months. Is there anything else I can do (besides use a heater)?

All I can suggest is to do a couple of big water changes to get your nitrates down to below 40. It LOOKS like your tank is probably done cycling. The nitrate levels may be interfering with your ammonia oxydation.
After getting your nitrates down to 40 or lower, redose with 2ppm ammonia and recheck ammonia level in 24 hrs. My guess is that it will test 0.

 

Yesterday I did two 50% water changes and got the Nitrates down to 30-40ppm. Ammonia was at around 0.50ppm so I dosed to 2ppm. 24 hours later Nitrates are at 40ppm and Ammonia is at 1.5 ppm .

 

Yesterday I did two 50% water changes and got the Nitrates down to 30-40ppm. Ammonia was at around 0.50ppm so I dosed to 2ppm. 24 hours later Nitrates are at 40ppm and Ammonia is at 1.5 ppm .

Still cycling...do another big water change in a couple of days to keep nitrates around 20 - 40 and keep dosing daily to 2ppm. You'll get there. AOB multiplies about twice as fast as NOB, so it shouldn't take too long!

 

Yesterday I did two 50% water changes and got the Nitrates down to 30-40ppm. Ammonia was at around 0.50ppm so I dosed to 2ppm. 24 hours later Nitrates are at 40ppm and Ammonia is at 1.5 ppm .

If at all possible you need to add a heater to get the temp up close to 80. Bacteria grows better at higher temps.

Now that you have done your water changes it may just be a matter of time or it may take another water change or two to get those nitrates as low as possible. Be sure to use a water conditioner if you have chlorine/chlorimines in your source water.

What if anything are you adding to this tank? Which water conditioner are you using?

 

Still cycling...do another big water change in a couple of days to keep nitrates around 20 - 40 and keep dosing daily to 2ppm. You'll get there. AOB multiplies about twice as fast as NOB, so it shouldn't take too long!

You are on about day 30? You are actually right on track! I think those high nitrates suppressed your AOB growth so now it just has to catch up. Be patient. Did you ever test your source water for ammonia? Might want to check that just so you know what that is.

You are on about day 30? You are actually right on track! I think those high nitrates suppressed your AOB growth so now it just has to catch up. Be patient. Did you ever test your source water for ammonia? Might want to check that just so you know what that is.

I agree with Mattgirl about the heater. And yes, as she said, you should be using a dechlorinator with every water change.

Sorry, my calendar was still on January! I'm counting the wrong month...arrgh!

 

Still cycling...do another big water change in a couple of days to keep nitrates around 20 - 40 and keep dosing daily to 2ppm. You'll get there. AOB multiplies about twice as fast as NOB, so it shouldn't take too long!

I'll test again tomorrow and do another big water change if the nitrates are still high.

If at all possible you need to add a heater to get the temp up close to 80. Bacteria grows better at higher temps.

I have a heater but decided to stop using it after a couple of weeks for a few reasons that just make me feel uncomfortable. I know this might be the reason for the slow bacteria growth but I think I would rather play the waiting a game a bit longer than to use a heater.

Now that you have done your water changes it may just be a matter of time or it may take another water change or two to get those nitrates as low as possible. Be sure to use a water conditioner if you have chlorine/chlorimines in your source water.

What if anything are you adding to this tank? Which water conditioner are you using?

I add Seachem Prime to my water before pouring it into the tank. People suggested using 2 drops per gallon so that's what I've been doing.

You are on about day 30? You are actually right on track! I think those high nitrates suppressed your AOB growth so now it just has to catch up. Be patient. Did you ever test your source water for ammonia? Might want to check that just so you know what that is.

Sorry I don't know how I missed this post. It's acutally now day 62 . My tap water has 0.25ppm ammonia and 5 nitrates.

I agree with Mattgirl about the heater. And yes, as she said, you should be using a dechlorinator with every water change.

Would I be able to use the heater temporarily just until the aquarium is cycled? I mean would the bacteria die off once I stop using it?

 

I'll test again tomorrow and do another big water change if the nitrates are still high.

I have a heater but decided to stop using it after a couple of weeks for a few reasons that just make me feel uncomfortable. I know this might be the reason for the slow bacteria growth but I think I would rather play the waiting a game a bit longer than to use a heater.

You have to do what makes you most comfortable

I add Seachem Prime to my water before pouring it into the tank. People suggested using 2 drops per gallon so that's what I've been doing.

Good job. In my personal opinion it is the most useful conditioner on the market.

At this point I feel sure it is just a waiting game. The water changes should get your cycle back on track. They not only remove some of the nitrates but also add back in the necessary minerals present in most of our tap water. After a while they will be depleted due to the cycling process so the water changes should help with that too.

I would wait until the ammonia reads .25 before adding more. If it stays at .25 for more than a couple of days go ahead and dose it back up to at least 2.

Would I be able to the heater temporarily just until the aquarium is cycled? I mean would the bacteria die off once I stop using it?

what kind of fish do you plan on putting in this tank. Tropical fish will probably have to have a heater but something like goldfish should be fine without one. The bacteria shouldn't die off once the heater is removed. I know folks manage to keep their goldfish tanks cycled and they keep the temps low for them

 

what kind of fish do you plan on putting in this tank. Tropical fish will probably have to have a heater but something like goldfish should be fine without one. The bacteria shouldn't die off once the heater is removed. I know folks manage to keep their goldfish tanks cycled and they keep the temps low for them

I was just planning on getting a few Zebra Danios/Glofish, Guppies and maybe White Cloud Minnows (small fish ). I have a 20 gallon long tank with an Aquaclear 50 HOB filter if I didn't mention that before.

 

I was just planning on getting a few Zebra Danios/Glofish, Guppies and maybe White Cloud Minnows (small fish ). I have a 20 gallon long tank with an Aquaclear 50 HOB filter if I didn't mention that before.

I am not sure about the guppies. I've never had them so haven't looked at the best temp for them. I know my danios prefer low 70's.

May I ask what your concerns are for using a heater. It really isn't any of my business but if you have concerns I would like to help if possible.

 

....your tap water is 5 ppm nitrate? And your tank nitrate is around 40 ppm? ....call me stupid but your tank is cycled.

 

....your tap water is 5 ppm nitrate? And your tank nitrate is around 40 ppm? ....call me stupid but your tank is cycled.

Probably but it is out of balance thus the reason the ammonia isn't going to zero. A cycled tank will have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates.

 

May I ask what your concerns are for using a heater. It really isn't any of my business but if you have concerns I would like to help if possible.

It's just me being over cautious and having read too many bad stories about heaters failing and killing fish. I've seen pictures from reviewers of the one I have (Aqueon Pro) cracking and splitting down the middle. I don't know if these people just didn't keep it completely submerged under water like the instructions say but it was enough to scare me to stop using it. It's mainly a safety concern and it just eases my mind.

 

It's just me being over cautious and having read too many bad stories about heaters failing and killing fish. I've seen pictures from reviewers of the one I have (Aqueon Pro) cracking and splitting down the middle. I don't know if these people just didn't keep it completely submerged under water like the instructions say but it was enough to scare me to stop using it. It's mainly a safety concern and it just eases my mind.

Gotcha. I have had heaters in all of my tanks for many years and have never had a problem with them. As long as I unplug them during water changes I don't expect to ever have a problem.

I have had them quit but that has been the extent of my heater problems. Some folks are not as careful with their equipment as they should be and in cases like that can cause themselves grief.

The heater in my 5.5 gallon tank is at least 20 years old and still works as well as it did when I first got it. I did have to replace the fairly new one in my 55 gallon tank this year. It just stopped working.

Your tropical fish really will thank you if you can keep their water at a comfortable temp.

 

Sorry I know it's been a while again since I updated, but basically the bacteria is still processing the ammonia at the same slow rate of around 0.50pm in 24 hours. I installed the heater again 2 weeks ago and the temperature has been between 80-81F (26-27C). I've also been doing water changes each time the nitrates rise above 40ppm. The only the other thing I can think of is maybe I need more water flow? The only thing causing surface agitation right now is my filter.

 

Have you tested pH? If your pH is too low, your cycle won't proceed the way you want it to. Maybe do a quick test and let us know what it's at.

 

A tank that drops 2 ppm ammonia in 24 hours really isn't necessary. Dropping 0.25 ppm ammonia into 0.25 nitrates is the normal aquarium. I'm not sure why this doctor made this plan for 2 ppm ammonia per day (my personal opinion is this is completely unnecessary; almost ludicrous). You'd need to seriously overstock your tank by about >6 times to get 2 ppm ammonia out of your fish in a 24 hour period. What is does do is sell more of the Dr's product which I believe is the intention of the bogus 2 ppm ammonia / 24 hour count. Unfortunately because of the many companies selling bogus products which aren't necessary at all things get confusing for new people to the hobby.

As stated there's four things that greatly effect bacteria growth. The ability for the bacteria to grow on a generally smooth surface, ph, water flow and temperature.

If this were my tank I'd leave it alone which means stop dosing the ammonia into the tank and keep water changing to cap Nitrates at 20-40 ppm. Simply measure the day to day nitrates change which should be about 0.5 ppm as you stated and change water about every week 20%. Also watch your ammonia in the tank when fish are in it and cap it to no more than 0.25 ppm with water changes. Because you already see nitrates your tank is already technically cycled. All you want to do is add fish in slowly and measure for a few days to see how the ammonia and nitrates change each 24 hours.

Below shows how I do it fish in, no chemicals added:




1) First this is a 10 gallon with plants and fish added right in. 6 1" cories, 10 guppies.
2) I measure the change in ammonia in 24 hours. Now that I know what the fish output I cap my ammonia, nitrites at 1 ppm; nitrates at 40 ppm for no longer than 24 hours with water changes (adjustments need to be made of how sensitive your species is to these) google search.
3) In the chart above the cycle completed at 77 F in 30 days with a fully stocked 10 gallon.

Note: There are errors in measurement with the API kit. Nitrites will not read anything close to the color chart when above 1 ppm. I realized this after doing a 50% water change and getting no change in color back to the <1ppm limit

 

Have you tested pH? If your pH is too low, your cycle won't proceed the way you want it to. Maybe do a quick test and let us know what it's at.

PH is currently at 8.4.

A tank that drops 2 ppm ammonia in 24 hours really isn't necessary. Dropping 0.25 ppm ammonia into 0.25 nitrates is the normal aquarium. I'm not sure why this doctor made this plan for 2 ppm ammonia per day (my personal opinion is this is completely unnecessary; almost ludicrous). You'd need to seriously overstock your tank by about >6 times to get 2 ppm ammonia out of your fish in a 24 hour period. What is does do is sell more of the Dr's product which I believe is the intention of the bogus 2 ppm ammonia / 24 hour count. Unfortunately because of the many companies selling bogus products which aren't necessary at all things get confusing for new people to the hobby.

As stated there's four things that greatly effect bacteria growth. The ability for the bacteria to grow on a generally smooth surface, ph, water flow and temperature.

If this were my tank I'd leave it alone which means stop dosing the ammonia into the tank and keep water changing to cap Nitrates at 20-40 ppm. Simply measure the day to day nitrates change which should be about 0.5 ppm as you stated and change water about every week 20%. Also watch your ammonia in the tank when fish are in it and cap it to no more than 0.25 ppm with water changes. Because you already see nitrates your tank is already technically cycled. All you want to do is add fish in slowly and measure for a few days to see how the ammonia and nitrates change each 24 hours.

In an earlier post I mentioned that I was planning on getting very few fish and small ones too (starting off with maybe 3 zebra danios and later on getting 3 guppies and 3 white cloud minnows). I sort of wanted to avoid the fish-in path but I might try if it's my last option.

 

In a 20 gallon you could get those fish right now and put them in once the temperature is right which should be about 70-74 degrees. Stop dosing the ammonia you are already very well cycled for what you want to have. I could put these in right now as long as the temperature is right and not lose one fish myself.

Your Ph probably indicates you have hard water so you may want to pick up a Kh test kit (Calcium [Ca] hardness).

 

Sorry I know it's been a while again since I updated, but basically the bacteria is still processing the ammonia at the same slow rate of around 0.50pm in 24 hours. I installed the heater again 2 weeks ago and the temperature has been between 80-81F (26-27C). I've also been doing water changes each time the nitrates rise above 40ppm. The only the other thing I can think of is maybe I need more water flow? The only thing causing surface agitation right now is my filter.

This one is a strange one. I don't know what is preventing the cycle from finishing up. I can't see lack of water flow causing it though.

What kind of filter are you running?

How low are the nitrates after a water change and
how long does it take for them to get up to 40?

Does the ammonia ever go down to zero?

Have you had anyone else run the ammonia test on this tank? I am wondering if there could possibly be something wrong with your ammonia test and somehow it is giving you a false reading.

I am just throwing out thoughts at this point to see if we can figure out what is going on.

 

Yeah, high pH does sometimes have a way of complicating cycles. I have to say that I tend to agree with w3amz about going ahead with putting a few fish in. "Cycling" is a bit of an arbitrary concept in that it is only important to cycle a tank to the degree at which it can handle the bioload of the fish you want to keep in it. It isn't always necessary to cycle it to the degree of which it can handle 2ppm or more ammonia in a 24hr period. That is only necessary if you plan on stocking enough fish to require that large of a beneficial bacterial colony. Your tank will still essentially be cycled even if it is only for the bioload of a few small fish. As long as it can handle that amount of fish waste...it's all that matters. Just don't go overboard at adding too many fish at any given time, but that's good advice for any tank.

You have an Aquaclear HOB filter. What are you using for media in it currently?

 

View attachment 534732

1) First this is a 10 gallon with plants and fish added right in. 6 1" cories, 10 guppies.
2) I measure the change in ammonia in 24 hours. Now that I know what the fish output I cap my ammonia, nitrites at 1 ppm; nitrates at 40 ppm for no longer than 24 hours with water changes (adjustments need to be made of how sensitive your species is to these) google search.
3) In the chart above the cycle completed at 77 F in 30 days with a fully stocked 10 gallon.

Note: There are errors in measurement with the API kit. Nitrites will not read anything close to the color chart when above 1 ppm. I realized this after doing a 50% water change and getting no change in color back to the <1ppm limit

Did you add prime or other ammonia/nitrite binder during your cycle to ameliorate the effects of the NH3 and NO3 or just do water changes?

 

This one is a strange one. I don't know what is preventing the cycle from finishing up. I can't see lack of water flow causing it though.

What kind of filter are you running?

How low are the nitrates after a water change and
how long does it take for them to get up to 40?

Does the ammonia ever go down to zero?

Have you had anyone else run the ammonia test on this tank? I am wondering if there could possibly be something wrong with your ammonia test and somehow it is giving you a false reading.

1. I have an Aquaclear 50 HOB filter.

2. After a water change I get the nitrates down to around 20 and it usually takes 3 days for it to go above 40.

3. I let the ammonia go down to 0 once last week and the nitrates went straight down to 10 at the same time. After re-dosing ammonia to 2.0 the nitrates started to pick back up right away. At that same time I saw a small reading of about 0.15ppm nitrites but never saw anymore again after that.

4. I've only used one API freshwater master test kit for my readings. None of the bottles have expired dates.
(Edit: I think the ammonia tests are running low so I might have to purchase a new kit soon).

Yeah, high pH does sometimes have a way of complicating cycles. I have to say that I tend to agree with w3amz about going ahead with putting a few fish in. "Cycling" is a bit of an arbitrary concept in that it is only important to cycle a tank to the degree at which it can handle the bioload of the fish you want to keep in it. It isn't always necessary to cycle it to the degree of which it can handle 2ppm or more ammonia in a 24hr period. That is only necessary if you plan on stocking enough fish to require that large of a beneficial bacterial colony. Your tank will still essentially be cycled even if it is only for the bioload of a few small fish. As long as it can handle that amount of fish waste...it's all that matters. Just don't go overboard at adding too many fish at any given time, but that's good advice for any tank.

You have an Aquaclear HOB filter. What are you using for media in it currently?

I'm using the three pieces of media that came with it. The foam filter on the bottom, the carbon filter in the middle and the BioMax filter on top.

I might go ahead and get 3 zebra danios to see how they do (after doing another big water change and making sure my ammonia is close to 0). I think I'd just be happy even if I have 1 fish swimming around for now . It's not fun having a fishless fish tank

 

I'm using the three pieces of media that came with it. The foam filter on the bottom, the carbon filter in the middle and the BioMax filter on top.

I might go ahead and get 3 zebra danios to see how they do (after doing another big water change and making sure my ammonia is close to 0). I think I'd just be happy even if I have 1 fish swimming around for now . It's not fun having a fishless fish tank

I would take out the activated carbon and use the extra space for more bio media. Another bag of bio max, or even another foam insert. The more space you have for your BB to colonize, the better. Activated carbon isn't a great home for BB because it is something that should really be replaced every couple of weeks. Otherwise it becomes exhausted and stops offering the same benefits to the tank. You can use activated carbon if you need to remove medications at some point, (but hopefully that gets done in a quarantine tank), or if maybe on the rare occasion if an odor develops, but otherwise unless you really want to continue using it, it might be something you use only periodically.

How long has this bag of activated carbon been in the filter? I'm wondering if you would like to hold off on the fish say for another week, and replace the carbon with a bio media, and see if that is enough to make a difference to your levels. It would be for experimental purposes only. Kind of a curiosity thing.

 

1. I have an Aquaclear 50 HOB filter.

2. After a water change I get the nitrates down to around 20 and it usually takes 3 days for it to go above 40.

How much ammonia does it consume in those 3 days?

3. I let the ammonia go down to 0 once last week and the nitrates went straight down to 10 at the same time. After re-dosing ammonia to 2.0 the nitrates started to pick back up right away. At that same time I saw a small reading of about 0.15ppm nitrites but never saw anymore again after that.

This one really has me scratching my head because that isn't the way a cycle works. The way it works is the ammonia goes down and the nitrates go up.

The steps are ammonia to nitrite to nitrates. In a fully cycle tank, meaning having grown enough bacteria in the proper proportions, you will never see ammonia or nitrites but the nitrates will keep rising until you lower them with water changes.

4. I've only used one API freshwater master test kit for my readings. None of the bottles have expired dates.
(Edit: I think the ammonia tests are running low so I might have to purchase a new kit soon).

You can make your test solution go farther by cutting everything in half meaning instead of running the test on 5mls of water run it on 2.5mls instead and instead of 8 drops from each bottle just use 4 from each. I tested this out and you will get the same reading and your testing solution bottles will do twice as many tests.

I'm using the three pieces of media that came with it. The foam filter on the bottom, the carbon filter in the middle and the BioMax filterthe top.

I would follow the good advice toosie gave you about removing the carbon and replacing it with a more permanent filter media.

I might go ahead and get 3 zebra danios to see how they do (after doing another big water change and making sure my ammonia is close to 0). I think I'd just be happy even if I have 1 fish swimming around for now . It's not fun having a fishless fish tank

I know this is getting very discouraging but I am afraid they might not survive. They might but I am afraid you would get really discouraged if they didn't make it.

Before you get fish I think what I would do is
1) go ahead an remove the carbon and replace it with a sponge

2) change out 90% of the water. Be sure the water you are replacing is temp matched and treated before pouring it in there. Run your Ph and nitrate test before doing # 3. Take note of the readings so we can compare them 24 hours later.

3) Dose your ammonia up to somewhere around 2. Doesn't have to be exact. even 1.5 would do.

4) do nothing to the tank for 24 hours and at that time run the PH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests.

Hopefully this will jump start this tank and get it back on track.

 

3. I let the ammonia go down to 0 once last week and the nitrates went straight down to 10 at the same time. After re-dosing ammonia to 2.0 the nitrates started to pick back up right away. At that same time I saw a small reading of about 0.15ppm nitrites but never saw anymore again after that.

This one really has me scratching my head because that isn't the way a cycle works. The way it works is the ammonia goes down and the nitrates go up.

I'm not sure why, but I missed seeing this unusual number of nitrites when I originally read that post, but mattgirl 's confusion highlighted it for me. Shade89, what brand of test kits are you using? I am not familiar with a 0.15ppm nitrites color option in the API test kit... are you saying that it is somewhere between 0.25 and 0? Or are you using a different test kit?

A false level of nitrates does happen, but only if there is an appreciable amount of nitrites present. Meaning that if you had a high level of nitrites, it can affect a nitrate reading, and so if nitrites went down, and the nitrates also went down, that would make sense to me. A very low level of nitrites does not usually affect the nitrate test kit enough for us to notice.

mattgirl...do you like puzzles? Maybe we can talk Shade89 into letting us figure this one out. There are a couple of things I wouldn't mind trying if the OP is game.

 

I'm not sure why, but I missed seeing this unusual number of nitrites when I originally read that post, but mattgirl 's confusion highlighted it for me. Shade89, what brand of test kits are you using? I am not familiar with a 0.15ppm nitrites color option in the API test kit... are you saying that it is somewhere between 0.25 and 0? Or are you using a different test kit?

A false level of nitrates does happen, but only if there is an appreciable amount of nitrites present. Meaning that if you had a high level of nitrites, it can affect a nitrate reading, and so if nitrites went down, and the nitrates also went down, that would make sense to me. A very low level of nitrites does not usually affect the nitrate test kit enough for us to notice.

mattgirl...do you like puzzles? Maybe we can talk Shade89 into letting us figure this one out. There are a couple of things I wouldn't mind trying if the OP is game.

I do like solving mysteries. I have come across some really head scratching mysteries since joining this form and this one is right up there with the most mysterious of all. I am game if Shade89 is what threw me off here is both the ammonia and nitrates going down at the same time. I can see it with nitrites but not nitrates.

 

Lol thanks for all the support guys. I'll try to answer all of your questions:

I would take out the activated carbon and use the extra space for more bio media. Another bag of bio max, or even another foam insert. The more space you have for your BB to colonize, the better. Activated carbon isn't a great home for BB because it is something that should really be replaced every couple of weeks. Otherwise it becomes exhausted and stops offering the same benefits to the tank. You can use activated carbon if you need to remove medications at some point, (but hopefully that gets done in a quarantine tank), or if maybe on the rare occasion if an odor develops, but otherwise unless you really want to continue using it, it might be something you use only periodically.

How long has this bag of activated carbon been in the filter? I'm wondering if you would like to hold off on the fish say for another week, and replace the carbon with a bio media, and see if that is enough to make a difference to your levels. It would be for experimental purposes only. Kind of a curiosity thing.

The activated carbon has been in my filter since I first got it, about 5 months ago (I restarted my cycle 2 months ago after that whole scare with my heater made me power off everything including even my filter). I took it out today and also rinsed out my foam insert with the aquarium water. So I only have the foam filter and BioMax filter in there right now. I'll have to order a second foam filter but before I do I'll test again tomorrow just to see if there's any immediate improvement as a result of removing the carbon. I'm not sure if I can fit a second BioMax filter in there without it going above the water line.

How much ammonia does it consume in those 3 days?

My HOB filter seems to consume the same amount of ammonia regardless of how many nitrates are present. Still between 0.25 - 0.50ppm every 24 hours.

You can make your test solution go farther by cutting everything in half meaning instead of running the test on 5mls of water run it on 2.5mls instead and instead of 8 drops from each bottle just use 4 from each. I tested this out and you will get the same reading and your testing solution bottles will do twice as many tests.

Thanks I tried this today and it seems to work.

Before you get fish I think what I would do is
1) go ahead an remove the carbon and replace it with a sponge

2) change out 90% of the water. Be sure the water you are replacing is temp matched and treated before pouring it in there. Run your Ph and nitrate test before doing # 3. Take note of the readings so we can compare them 24 hours later.

3) Dose your ammonia up to somewhere around 2. Doesn't have to be exact. even 1.5 would do.

4) do nothing to the tank for 24 hours and at that time run the PH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests.

Hopefully this will jump start this tank and get it back on track.

Once I get another sponge (if necessary) I'll perform all of these steps and keep you updated.

I'm not sure why, but I missed seeing this unusual number of nitrites when I originally read that post, but mattgirl 's confusion highlighted it for me. Shade89, what brand of test kits are you using? I am not familiar with a 0.15ppm nitrites color option in the API test kit... are you saying that it is somewhere between 0.25 and 0? Or are you using a different test kit?

A false level of nitrates does happen, but only if there is an appreciable amount of nitrites present. Meaning that if you had a high level of nitrites, it can affect a nitrate reading, and so if nitrites went down, and the nitrates also went down, that would make sense to me. A very low level of nitrites does not usually affect the nitrate test kit enough for us to notice.

Yea sorry for the confusion, I did mean it was between 0 and 0.25ppm. Also it could have just been a false reading with the nitrates like you mentioned because the next day it tested 40ppm.


I will hold off on getting any fish until we're able to fill in all the pieces of this puzzle together.

 

I am anxious to see what the numbers are going to be once the big water change is done. My thoughts behind the big water change is it is possible that the nitrites and/or nitrates are much higher than is showing up in the tests and it is causing some false readings. When either or both nitrites and nitrates are so high as to be off the chart it will also slow down the ammonia processing.

If that is the case the huge water change should remove them and should get this cycle back closer to balanced. I have seen a number of times where the nitrates were so high off the chart that the test defaulted back to 5. Yours hasn't done that but it doesn't seem to be giving you correct reading either.

Your nitrates shouldn't have gone down as your ammonia was going down. The nitrates should have been going up.

Hopefully we will start seeing progress after the water change.

 

The activated carbon has been in my filter since I first got it, about 5 months ago (I restarted my cycle 2 months ago after that whole scare with my heater made me power off everything including even my filter). I took it out today and also rinsed out my foam insert with the aquarium water. So I only have the foam filter and BioMax filter in there right now. I'll have to order a second foam filter but before I do I'll test again tomorrow just to see if there's any immediate improvement as a result of removing the carbon. I'm not sure if I can fit a second BioMax filter in there without it going above the water line.

As long as you use one or the other (foam insert or biomax) to fill in the space where the activated carbon was, the BB will gain another long term home. I don't anticipate removing the carbon to change much, but I did wonder if maybe it was somehow affecting your weird nitrate readings. Some people claim that if the same bag of activated carbon is continuously used, once it is exhausted, it can do what they call a "dump". Activated carbon doesn't remove nitrates so this "dump" shouldn't affect the nitrates in itself, but maybe something about it affects it. It's a straw at best. (If you know what I mean. )

mattgirl would like to see you drain your current tank water, and start again with fresh water. I have had this concern over your high pH interfering with the cycle. So this is what I propose... Do you think you would be able to buy a jug or two of RO (reverse osmosis) water? Ideally I would like to see you mix the RO water 50/50 with your normal source water. This will help to lower your pH and keep it steady giving the nitrifying bacteria a better opportunity to proliferate. You could try a 25/75 RO to source water blend, and see where that brought your pH down to, Or some ration in between, but I'd really like to lower that pH a bit without using chemicals that will just bounce back up again. It might take a day for pH to stabilize using the RO/source mix, and give an accurate pH, but after that it would remain stable. The cycle has a way of affecting pH, causing it to decrease, but that type of shift is different.

So, more bio media and lower pH. That's what I'm currently proposing. What do you all think?

 

I don't know how I managed to miss that 8.4 PH reading in this tank. What is the PH of your source water? I remember your Ph being in the mid 7's at the start of this thread.

 

I don't know how I managed to miss that 8.4 PH reading in this tank. What is the PH of your source water? I remember your Ph being in the mid 7's at the start of this thread.

Strange, I don't have any logs of ever testing the PH of the source water. Do I need to use my water conditioner before testing? I've heard you need to wait 24 hours for an accurate reading if you do.

The PH seems to be fluctuating. Yesterday it was 8.4 and the day before that it was 7.4 - 7.6.

 

Strange, I don't have any logs of ever testing the PH of the source water. Do I need to use my water conditioner before testing? I've heard you need to wait 24 hours for an accurate reading if you do.

The PH seems to be fluctuating. Yesterday it was 8.4 and the day before that it was 7.4 - 7.6.

It is good to test your source water straight from the tap and again after it has set out for 24 hours. You should get a true reading by doing this. Sometimes the PH will change (normally goes down) after setting out for 24 hours. You don't have to use treated water for this test.

This test will determine if using partial RO water will help to stabilize your PH. If your source water has a stable PH water changes with it should keep your PH where it needs to be.

 

Strange, I don't have any logs of ever testing the PH of the source water. Do I need to use my water conditioner before testing? I've heard you need to wait 24 hours for an accurate reading if you do.

The PH seems to be fluctuating. Yesterday it was 8.4 and the day before that it was 7.4 - 7.6.

Wow, am I bad. I assumed the 8.4 pH was something you've been dealing with all along. Yeah, definitely test the source.

None of these readings are making sense. Can you list out everything you have in your tank? And, can you tell us all of the products you use.

 

Wow, am I bad. I assumed the 8.4 pH was something you've been dealing with all along. Yeah, definitely test the source.

None of these readings are making sense. Can you list out everything you have in your tank? And, can you tell us all of the products you use.

- 20 Gallon Long Aqueon Tank
- Aquaclear 50 HOB Filter
- Aqueon Pro 100w heater
- Black/Blue Gravel
- Plastic Plants
- 3 Ornaments
- Digital Thermometer
- A tank lid

Products:

- A full bottle of TSS+ (250ML) since Day 3 of my cycle
- Seachem Prime
- Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride
- API Freshwater Master Test Kit

I uploaded a few pictures just to show what it looks like. I only turned the light on to take the photos, I don't normally keep it on.

 

Beautiful tank!!!! Now if only we could get the numbers where they should be it will be even more beautiful with some life in there.

I was working with another member that was having problems with high nitrites. Nothing we tried would get them down. After a LOT of trial and error we finally discovered that it was one or all of the deco in the tank. It was all supposed to be safe for aquarium use but as soon as it was removed .... no more nitrites. She was a trouper and followed all suggestions but to no avail. I was about ready to claim defeat but finally suggested removing the deco. Both she and I were thrilled to finally get to the bottom of the problem. I would love an update as to how her beautiful Betta is doing now.

We will get to the bottom of this. It may take trial and error but I will stick with you until we figure it out. I am so happy to see toosie here so we can bounce ideas off each other and may get to the bottom of the problem sooner by helping each other.

 

We will get to the bottom of this. It may take trial and error but I will stick with you until we figure it out. I am so happy to see toosie here so we can bounce ideas off each other and may get to the bottom of the problem sooner by helping each other.

Yep, I'm here and I love bouncing!

I too have heard of ornaments causing problems... in fact I have a skull here somewhere that caused me issues a while back. (But I can't remember exactly what it did) I had a hard time believing it to be true but it was the only thing different about my tank, and the problem rectified after removing it. My kids bought it for me and I felt really bad about having to take it out. They did purchase it from the fish section at a pet store. It wasn't something they had just found somewhere. I wish I could remember more details.

Thank YOU Shade89 for that info and those pics. I've been working on a few threads that have been cramping my brain right now and that sure helped. Beautiful tank!

 

I just tested the PH of my source water and it reads 8.0.

These are the current readings in the aquarium:

Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates 40 - 80
PH: 7.4
High Range PH: 7.6

I dosed the ammonia to 1.0 and removed the 3 large ornaments in the tank for now (all the plastic plants are still there). I want to get another piece of media in the filter before I perform another large water change...

I was going to order the extra sponge I like mentioned through Amazon but sadly there's no prime shipping available (meaning no 2-day free shipping), so it would probably take a week to arrive, however The BioMax filter is available in prime shipping. I mentioned before that I probably can't fit another BioMax but I can probably leave some out or just try to make sure I get the bag as flat as possible (my current one is a bit bulky because I cut the bag too short). Is there one that would be better than the other (Foam vs BioMax)?. I don't mind waiting if the foam is the better choice.