Should I Add Plants?

Hey guys just in my first week of cycling and was reading that some plants help to kick start your cycle. Do you suggest I get some and if so what type of plant? Also do I just plant them in the sand? Would just a moss ball work? I'm doing a fishless cycle with ammonia being added to 2ppm. Thanks once again for all the help with my probably stupid questions lol

 

Not stupid questions at all. In fact you're asking exactly the right questions.

You understand the basics of the cycle. The first thing that has to happen is the bacteria needs to be introduced into the aquarium. It will happen on its own eventually, not sure exactly how, but it does. Most plants do have the biofilm that contains some of the bacteria you're looking for. It doesn't make it cycle instantly, but it will speed up the process by introducing the bacteria sooner than it would have done on its own. I've found that when I set up a tank and get some ammonia, then put plants in, nitrites show up right away. That has taken longer when I haven't put in plants.

 

From what I understand, plants help by providing more area for bb to grow, but its not very much. So I would say if you wanted plants in your aquarium go ahead, but I don't know if it will work wonders for your cycle.

 

Short answer, yes!

If you WANT a planted tank, yes you should! If you don’t have any interest in plants, and you are just thinking it will help your cycle, than skip it.

Plants are not needed, but they are nice if you can get them growing, it is you decision!

Some nice plants would be.... anubias (you can plant it, or tie it to driftwood), Java moss (you can attach it to driftwood), Moss balls (just set them in your tank wherever, and never think about them again), Java Fern (plant them in sand), water wisteria (let them float).

All of the plants I mentioned need very minimal lighting, so at least some of them should thrive in your tank!

 

Benefits of live aquarium plants:

-absorb excess nutrients in water, including ammonia
-provide a natural aesthetic not achievable with most artificial plants
-are 100% fish and invertebrate safe
-provide shelter for small fish, fry, and freshwater shrimp
-create oxygen
-tons of color, texture, and variety

 

Adding plants won't boost your cycle or speed it up. In actuality, is slows it a little because plants absorb ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates so it causes the beneficial bacteria to grow more slowly.

That said, its ALWAYS a great idea to add plants for the reason I just stated. They are a natural filter and will help keep the water "clean".

Any plants that need to be planted will do fine in sand. There are many plants that don't need to be planted though (a moss ball for example just rolls around on the bottm). Plants that have a rhizome, like anubias and java fern, can't be planted as their rhizome needs to be in the water column. If its planted, it will rot. You attack it to rocks, driftwood, etc. Floating plants like dwarf water lettuce, frogbit, etc., need to float on the surface. If they were planted theyd die.

Plants are always a great idea for your tank, but there are MANY different types with different needs. If you want something easy, drop in some moss balls, java fern anubias or plant some amazon sword. Taking a few clippings of the common houseplant pothos and sticking the stems in the tank will promote root growth which will help with filtration and provide hiding places in your tank.

 

Not stupid questions at all. In fact you're asking exactly the right questions.

You understand the basics of the cycle. The first thing that has to happen is the bacteria needs to be introduced into the aquarium. It will happen on its own eventually, not sure exactly how, but it does. Most plants do have the biofilm that contains some of the bacteria you're looking for. It doesn't make it cycle instantly, but it will speed up the process by introducing the bacteria sooner than it would have done on its own. I've found that when I set up a tank and get some ammonia, then put plants in, nitrites show up right away. That has taken longer when I haven't put in plants.

What type

Adding plants won't boost your cycle or speed it up. In actuality, is slows it a little because plants absorb ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates so it causes the beneficial bacteria to grow more slowly.

That said, its ALWAYS a great idea to add plants for the reason I just stated. They are a natural filter and will help keep the water "clean".

Any plants that need to be planted will do fine in sand. There are many plants that don't need to be planted though (a moss ball for example just rolls around on the bottm). Plants that have a rhizome, like anubias and java fern, can't be planted as their rhizome needs to be in the water column. If its planted, it will rot. You attack it to rocks, driftwood, etc. Floating plants like dwarf water lettuce, frogbit, etc., need to float on the surface. If they were planted theyd die.

Plants are always a great idea for your tank, but there are MANY different types with different needs. If you want something easy, drop in some moss balls, java fern anubias or plant some amazon sword. Taking a few clippings of the common houseplant pothos and sticking the stems in the tank will promote root growth which will help with filtration and provide hiding places in your tank.

So maybe I will wait till mycycle is complete and then add plants. Just want this cycling to as fast as possible I know it will take a long time but anything I can do to not drag it out longer then neccesary. Thank you all for your advice

 

Plants are awesome, it might help with selecting some if we had a picture of the tank

 

Plants are awesome, it might help with selecting some if we had a picture of the tank

I will take a picture as soon as I get home

Plants are awesome, it might help with selecting some if we had a picture of the tank

I'm the corner is the large fake plants covering the heater and filter. That is really what I want is something to cover them up.

 

Adding plants won't boost your cycle or speed it up.

I'm curious about your reasoning on this. Would you also say that adding cycled filter media also won't affect the cycling process? It's exactly the same concept. Obviously, there's not nearly as much bacteria on plants as in filter media, that's why I said "It doesn't make it cycle instantly."

I just think it's incorrect to say that bacteria colonies don't form on plants and adding plants won't do anything to help the cycle along.

I never used plants for cycling until I heard it on a YouTube video. I started using plants to cycle when I set up my new fish room. I log every reading for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates as they're cycling, and the comparisons are clear. It takes 10 days to two weeks for nitrites to show up on their own. It happens right away when I put in plants. The bacteria still need to reproduce and colonize, and it still takes time for the full conversion to nitrates to occur, but it's real in my experience.

 

No, its the exact opposite concept actually. Like I said, plants ABSORB the ammonia and nitrites. When you take ammonia and nitrites away, the beneficial bacteria takes longer to develop and the colony will be smaller overall.

Adding filter media from a cycled tank can help boost your cycle for sure, especially with a similar bioload. But if you take media from a tank with 10 neon tetras and put it into a tank with oscars and plecos, its not really going to do anything.

Also, I didnt say bacteria colonies don't form on plants, although I will now. In general, the VAST majority won't form on plants or substrate. This is why a tank with no filter is never "cycled". Sure, you can do a super heavily planted tank with a small bioload and have it work out, but that goes back to what I first said: Plants ABSORB the chemical compounds that the bacteria needs to eat to grow. Nitrosomonas eat ammonia and produce nitrites. If there is not ammonia in the water because the plants are absorbing it, you won't have nitrosomonas, so no nitrites. That doesn't meant the tank is cycled.

Never heard of him as I dont, in general, watch Youtube vids on fish tanks.

 

I agree that plants ABSORB ammonia and nitrites. There's no disagreement. You seem to believe that the bacteria colony on plants, substrate, decorations, etc., is so negligible as to be irrelevant in the cycling process. Do I have that right? Are you saying that there is no danger in overcleaning your aquarium, such as rinsing filter media, cleaning the glass, and vacuuming substrate all at once? Gosh, I've had it happen. In 20 years of fishkeeping, with 20+ tanks, the only time my cycle broke was when I rinsed the filter media, cleaned the glass, and vacuumed the gravel on all my tanks at once. I don't believe it was some strange coincidence unrelated to the cleaning.

I appreciate your response. From my experience I have to agree to disagree.

 

You pretty much have it correct, what I'm saying that is. Other than touching your filter media, you could clean your tank, plants, decorations, glass substrate, etc., with bleach and not disrupt your cycle. 99% of it is in the filter.

 

How big is your tank? I just started a 40 gallon and have read that a fishless cycle does nothing. I started with 6 lemon tetras and they are thriving! None of the bacteria levels have spiked above the 2nd market and ammonia is at 0 for the past week, also using the TSS+

 

You seem to believe that the bacteria on plants, , decorations, etc., is so negligible as to be irrelevant in the cycling process.

You pretty much have it correct, what I'm saying that is. Other than touching your filter media, you could clean your tank, plants, decorations, glass , etc., with bleach and not disrupt your cycle. 99% of it is in the filter.

It's possible to have tanks that are filterless (e.g. Walstad planted tanks) which rely on motile nitrifying bacteria suspended in the water column as well as bacteria biofilms on the substrate and other surfaces. But this is usually balanced out by having a high plant biomass that readily takes up ammonia.

In filtered tanks, I think it's important to remember that the biofilter in itself provides an environment that is more conducive to higher nitrifying efficiency. For any bacteria that is not located on the surface of biofilm and not in direct contact with a film of water, these bacteria require that ammonia/nitrite be diffused across the biofilm in order that they may oxidise it. Diffusion of ammonia/nitrite across biofilm is greatly improved with increased water flow velocity and higher turbulence. Most filter media is designed with increased surface area and higher turbulence in mind, and this distinguishes the efficiency of bacteria biofilm on the filter media compared to biofilm on other surfaces where the flow/turbulence is more likely much less. Much of this is covered in Chen, Ling and Blancheton (2006).

As for whether plants will speed up a cycle, it depends on your school of thought as to whether the only valid exit pathway for ammonia is via nitrification. I'm of the view that plants are a benefit to cycling: if it's the case that a high density of plants takes up 1 ppm of ammonia per day, then that leaves only 1 ppm left for your bacteria to cycle in order to accomplish a target of 2 ppm ammonia within 24 hours. In fact, many planted tanks have much less filtration rates (anywhere between 3-5 times the volume of water) than non-planted tanks in light of this. In any case, I think the additional surface that plants provide for nitrifying bacteria is less significant than their ability to take up ammonia directly and reduce the load on nitrifying bacteria.

Edit: There are some schools of thought in planted tanks that discourage planting while cycling. Not because there's any distinct advantage or disadvantage that plants may impart on the cycling process, but because cycling tends to have rather unstable water parameters (e.g. pH swings, KH fluctuations, nitrite - which does have its own toxic effects upon plants - accumulation, etc.) which may seriously injure the health of any plants.

 

Add the plants. If you have the experience of one poster and it works, you cycle faster. If it doesn't work, placebo effect and you feel like more is happening while you wait. Also I agree with the other poster about criticisms on the fishless cycle

 

have read that a fishless cycle does nothing

Also I agree with the other poster about criticisms on the fishless cycle

Out of curiosity (as I don't think I've come across them before), what are some of the criticisms on the fishless cycle?

For what it's worth, I fishless cycled quite quickly (3 weeks) with minimal intervention. But I think fish-in cycling is perfectly valid too. Just depends on the aquarist's degree of comfort and knowledgeability.

 

I can't find the long article I originally read that discussed pros and cons but the jist I recall was a pronged process that still resulted in a secondary fish-in cycle. The bioload should still be small and gradually increased over many weeks and parameters will still fluctuate and need to be monitored. Seeded filter media is premium cycling gold though.

"Some experiments have shown that tanks cycled using chemicals, rather than organic materials like fish wastes or fish food, may lack all of the required beneficial bacteria and have to undergo a further "maturation" (or time lag) when fish are added." "Over-compensation involves adding much more pollution to the tank than the fish will create when the tank is fully stocked." So the margin of error of getting the right kinds of bacteria in the right amounts or else you have minI cycles after adding real fish. Still workable.
Source:

 

I have done ALOT of research since 5 years ago when I failed miserably at tetras glofish 5 gallon when I bought 5 longfin tetra glofish for my then 2 year old and they all died. At that point I swore I would do a fishless cycles but after more research, it all has to do with size of tank and bioload. Such as, I have 6 (as of to tonight, 9) lemon tetras in a 40 gallon where I would have many more for the size of tank... but say I start with no fish and a dosage of nitrates, well even after that particular dosage of nitrates cycles, adding a "full load" of fish would cause me to cycle again.. even though partially cycled, I still have to develop the BB for the fish in my tank.

So, with a 40 gal, I started off with the minimum school and increased today by 3 to make them less shy, but even had my tank been fully cycled (which I believe it is since all numbers are 0 besides the last in the cycle which is reduced with water changes) if I add 20 fish tomorrow, I will have an ammonia spike because of the new load of fish.

So, anyone who does a fishless cycle will see fluctuations in the test readings until it balances itself.


Sorry, its Friday and have had a drink so if I over elaborated or under elaborated... that's why

Carbeco explained what I was trying in much fewer words.. sorry

Some of my beauties in their tank that was set up 2 weeks ago

 

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co...requently-asked-questions-on-fishless-cycling

Thanks for the link! I definitely agree that used filter media is the best if it can be sourced. The article was an interesting read, although I'm not sure how much stock I put in some of the claims. They cite "some experiments", but the academic and skeptic in me is crying out for references.

To be more specific, there's some 20 odd factors which can influence nitrification (most of these are covered in Wheaton, Hochheimer, Kaiser, Krones, Libey and Easter, 1994), but I'm not sure how"fish wastes or fish food" can congruently fit into that.

It's worth noting that most ammonia produced by fish is directly excreted as NH3 by diffusion across their gills, which is little different than adding ammonia directly to the water column during fishless cycling. In addition, there is little direct ammonia present in solid fish waste, but it is processed into ammonia by heterotrophic bacteria.

A note on bioload: There's not a whole lot of literature written about determining fish ammonia excretion rates, since it varies according to metabolism (which is dependent on so many variables), feeding as a proportion of body mass, fish feed protein content, etc. Tal, Nissonovitch and van Rijn (2003) conducted a study on common goldfish, and their data shows that the fish excreted 0.07 mg of ammonia per gram of body mass per day when fed 0.5% of their body weight in fish food that had a 40% protein content.

In other words, a filter fishless cycled to 2 mg/L NH3 concentration can support 22.81 grams of fish per litre of water if fed at rates typical in intensive aquaculture (which is likely more than in hobbyist tanks). That's approximately 12 lbs of goldfish in a 50 gallon tank, which is far more than anybody would ever stock.