Shipping Fish And Medicating Them

So after having seen the Wet Spots selection of fish for the 20 I plan on building in the near future, I think that is most likely going to be the best choice to stock exactly what I want. It would be ordering online, which is something I've never done.

Now onto the main point of the thread- Shipping fish must not be easy on the fish, and obviously cause them stress. A stressed fish is one that can easily get sick, so before I even think about going through with this, I wanted to get some advice from those more experienced with this type of thing.
A few of the concerns I had-

1. Upon arriving, I should drip acclimate right? It makes the most sense as the water params. will be different, so it makes sense that I should do this, right?
2. After entering the tank, should I dose some sort of medicine? Naturally they will be stressed which is my main concern. What can I do to help them not be stressed? I've seen something along the lines of "Stress Coat" at pet stores around here, anybody knows what that does or if it works?
3. What meds are recommended? Say that things go south after being in the tank for a few days. What ailments are most common to occur and what meds are best to combat them?

Last couple things--
I've never even considered buying fish and having them shipped because it seemed cruel. But as Platylover explained to me, they ship them to petstores regardless, and if they go to me, they don't get any chance to get shoved into a crowded tank.
They are going into a tank that will be cycled and half planted, so it will hopefully be a little more natural for them.
The fish are tank raised.

Thanks to everyone that can help, I really appreciate it!

 

1.yes drip accumulation is the best route to ge them adjusted to your tanks water quality.
2. I wouldn’t treat them as soon as you get them as this will cause a lot more stress (meds for fish are low level poisons) stress coat+ by API is a water conditioner that removes chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, has aloe Vera to promote slime coat productions and removes a small amount of ammonia for what enters the tank after the chloramine breaks into chlorine and ammonia.
3. The most common diseases is ich. This can easily be treated with heat and aquarium salt.
I always try salt and heat first and meds at a last resort when treating ich as I have a scales catfish in one tank and a scales dwarf puff in another. The meds are dependent on the type of illness it is. Whether it is viral, bacterial, fungal, or parasitic. You do a different treatment for each type and for some of the different diseases. And the best way to avoid illness is to quarantine all new fish for 2 weeks in a small tank before adding to the main display tank.

 

1. That’s what I suggest and believe to be the best method of acclimating, but it’s a very debated topic on what way is the best and least stressful. I believe that drip-acclimating would be less stressful and better for the fish as it’s a gradual but constant introduction to new parameters and tempature. You can also have them in a larger area while acclimating(like a bucket) if you want to give them a little extra room while waiting to be added.
2. When you first get them and open the bags, make sure you do a small dose of prime. This will help with any chemicals that have been built up during shipment. I’d also leave the lights off and make sure the temp is where you want it before putting them in. I’d also add an extra dose of prime to the tank to help with the new bioload that will be coming into the tank. Keep a close eye on parameters for the first week or two to make sure they don’t spike with all the new fish and if they do just do a waterchanges. Also try and have some good hiding spots in the tank, if you feel like there isn’t to much cover when you first add then I suggest terracotta pots as they are cheap but the fish will appreciate the hides.

I’ve never used stress coat nor honestly know much about it, from my gathering some people use it but others find it a bit unnecessary. Now I wouldn’t medicate right away unless they are sick. It’d be better to watch and make sure they are healthy and just keep an eye on them than to add the stress of medications if it’s unneccessary.

3. I’ll ask Whitewolf as I believe he knows a fair bit on medications and medicating if I recall correctly.

 

I always drip acclimate and have never medicated fish immediately after arrival. I like to get a cycled small sponge filter into the "cycling bucket" as soon as the water level in the bucket allows it. Prior to that, I run an air stone to move the water around to aid in the acclimation process.

 

I have always been encouraged to not drip acclimate shipped fish. From what I understand, when the bag gets opened and oxygen hits the water that has been sealed for a couple days, the ammonia spikes really high. That's why people choose to just float to match temperature and then plop the fish in. I don't know how high it is said to spike, but I suppose if it stays under 1ppm then the prime would keep the fish safe. So I guess it depends on how high it spikes.

Of course, if breather bags are used, it is a different story.

 

One thing I forgot to add- the tank is going to be completely new. They will be the first inhabitants, so they don't need to go into quarantine.

So no medication

I have always been encouraged to not drip acclimate shipped fish. From what I understand, when the bag gets opened and oxygen hits the water that has been sealed for a couple days, the ammonia spikes really high. That's why people choose to just float to match temperature and then plop the fish in. I don't know how high it is said to spike, but I suppose if it stays under 1ppm then the prime would keep the fish safe. So I guess it depends on how high it spikes.

Of course, if breather bags are used, it is a different story.

One thing I forgot to add- the tank is going to be completely new. They will be the first inhabitants, so they don't need to go into quarantine.

So no medication upon arrival. Got it.

Yes bizaliz3 that was actually something I was going to bring up, I heard that from I think The King of DIY, but I'm not sure. It would be overnight shipping, so I don't think the ammonia would be that high. You think the Prime would take care of it? I could always go with just temp. acclimation, but there's the issue of water parameters again. I'll wait to see what more people say

 

I actually shop at the Wet Spot since its in my backyard and I know that they won't sell anybody sick fish. They'll mark the entire tank with an orange sticker.

Even though they are healthy I would still put them in the QT. You don't necessary need to treat the fish that come in...just evaluate them and see their poop and how the eat and stuff. There is no reason to medicate if you don't see anything wrong.

If you tank is new and has no fish I don't think you need to QT at all.

 

I actually shop at the Wet Spot since its in my backyard and I know that they won't sell anybody sick fish. They'll mark the entire tank with an orange sticker.

Even though they are healthy I would still put them in the QT. You don't necessary need to treat the fish that come in...just evaluate them and see their poop and how the eat and stuff. There is no reason to medicate if you don't see anything wrong.

If you tank is new and has no fish I don't think you need to QT at all.

Yeah theyll be the first ones ever in, so no need for QT

 

You think the Prime would take care of it? I could always go with just temp. acclimation, but there's the issue of water parameters again. I'll wait to see what more people say

As long as the ammonia is under 1ppm the prime will help.
If it is overnight, then there isn't as much concern. When it is 2 and 3 day shipping, then it gets a little trickier.
Maybe split the difference and acclimate slowly but not as slow as a drip acclimation would take??

 

Yeah theyll be the first ones ever in, so no need for QT

Yup, any fish after that should be QT.

 

As long as the ammonia is under 1ppm the prime will help.
If it is overnight, then there isn't as much concern. When it is 2 and 3 day shipping, then it gets a little trickier.
Maybe split the difference and acclimate slowly but not as slow as a drip acclimation would take??

Seems like that would make the most sense to do, I guess it would be more of a "pour acclimation" then

Now what do you guys recommend for meds? API General Cure? Ich-X?

 

Seems like that would make the most sense to do, I guess it would be more of a "pour acclimation" then

Now what do you guys recommend for meds? API General Cure? Ich-X?

This is another debatable topic. Treating fish with meds even if they don't show any signs of being ill.....

Personally, I have chosen to skip meds on QT (regardless if they were shipped or not), but as a result, I do 2 month long QTs.

 

Just something I want to add to drip acclimation, it doesn’t necessarily have to be slow. It’s completely dependent on how tight you tie the knot. I typically have the acclimation finished in 35-45 minutes which is around the same as other methods. I’ve done the pour water in every 15 minutes method and that works well too, but I still personally feel drip is better.

 

From what I understand, when gets opened and oxygen hits the water that has been sealed for a couple days, the spikes really high.

I've heard of this as well. From what I've read, there's a couple of explanations floating around on the internet about this:

1. Sudden influx of oxygen causes a bloom of heterotrophic bacteria that proceeds to convert nitrogenous waste (i.e. solid fish waste) into ammonia;
2. Gaseous exchange between unsealed bag causes degassing of CO2 with a subsequent rise in the bag's pH, causing ammonium to deprotonate to more toxic free ammonia; and
3. Adding higher pH tank water to lower pH bag water causes the latter's pH to rise, causing ammonium to deprotonate to more toxic free ammonia.

I'm not especially convinced that (1) and (2) is valid mostly because gaseous exchange between the surface of water and the atmosphere is quite slow.

(3) seems the most plausible. But part of my thinking is that, if this is the case, wouldn't the addition of water through drip acclimation just dilute any increased concentration in free ammonia? I suppose ultimately it depends on the concentration of total ammonia (NH3 + NH4+) that's in the bag.

But I think the biggest factor in favour of drip acclimation is acclimating fish to the carbonate salt (KH) concentration and Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). Rapid, significant changes can impede the osmoregulation process in fish.

 

I've heard of this as well. From what I've read, there's a couple of explanations floating around on the internet about this:

1. Sudden influx of oxygen causes a bloom of heterotrophic bacteria that proceeds to convert nitrogenous waste (i.e. solid fish waste) into ammonia;
2. Gaseous exchange between unsealed bag causes degassing of CO2 with a subsequent rise in the bag's pH, causing ammonium to deprotonate to more toxic free ammonia; and
3. Adding higher pH tank water to lower pH bag water causes the latter's pH to rise, causing ammonium to deprotonate to more toxic free ammonia.

I'm not especially convinced that (1) and (2) is valid mostly because gaseous exchange between the surface of water and the atmosphere is quite slow.

(3) seems the most plausible. But part of my thinking is that, if this is the case, wouldn't the addition of water through drip acclimation just dilute any increased concentration in free ammonia? I suppose ultimately it depends on the concentration of total ammonia (NH3 + NH4+) that's in the bag.

But I think the biggest factor in favour of drip acclimation is acclimating fish to the carbonate salt (KH) concentration and Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). Rapid, significant changes can impede the osmoregulation process in fish.

Very informative. I don't think the surface area for gas exchange helps the point either, since it is so small when in a bag.
Either way I will be going with the drip acclimation method so the water params don't shock the fish.

 

Keeping antibiotic and anti-worm/gut parasite flake food on hand is helpful, along with some quick cure for external parsites

 

Keeping antibiotic and anti-worm/gut parasite flake food on hand is helpful, along with some quick cure for external parsites

Any suggested brands?

 

I can't name names on fishlore because it won't allow me, but do an internet search for kanamycin flake food and levimasole flake food and also they make general cure flake too friend.
Its so cheap, works just as well, and will last you for years. should be like 5 bucks a bag of med flake