Sexing Surinamensis

Discussion in 'Fish, Snail, Worm And Pest ID Help' started by Nutter, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Nutter

    NutterFishlore VIPMember

    This is my first time owning one of these & I'm not sure if it's a male or female. So cichlid lovers, which do you think it is?

    Don't ask me about the male Pearl that's in with it. I don't think it's a good idea but it's the missuses tank & she wants to go with the "try it & see" option. I'm prepeared to rehome the Pearl if it doesn't work for her.

    PS: Sorry about the low quality pics. Cheap camera until I can afford a new one.

    EDIT: I just convinced the missus to let me take the Pearl out of the tank. So it's out & on it's way to a mates tank now.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  2. bolivianbaby

    bolivianbabyFishlore LegendMember

    Wow, beautiful fish!

    Maybe you can PM BTate. He'd be a good one to help you figure out the sex.:p
     
  3. btate617

    btate617Well Known MemberMember

    Hey Nutter

    Great fish! Would be nice if more people got interested in Geophagus.

    As to it being a Geophagus Surinamensis I highly doubt it, here are a few reasons why.
    The true G. Surinamensis only comes from one river ( and a couple of its tributaries) in Suriname. Also export has not been done for years from there, unless this has changed in the last few years which I don't believe it has. Before someone says you don't have to have fish from the wild to have them in the hobby, yes I know. Having said that there has not been many to find in the hobby in the last 15 years or so. There probably are some somewhere but good luck finding them. Someone more than likely has them but has no idea what they have.

    Most of the fish you see listed as Surinamensis are going to be either Geophagus Proximus or Geophagus Altifrons. Both of those also awesome fish. I bought some Surinamensis, oops I mean Proximus about 5 years ago and sold them once they grew some and I knew what they were. Surinamensis has been a catch-all name for many Geophagus for a number of years. I have seen G. Abalios, G. Altifrons, G. Proximus, G. Dicrozoster, and even G. Brasiliensis and G. Steindachneri listed as Surinamensis.
    Geophagus are so messed up, take one of the names above Geophagus Altifons. In one book of South American Eartheaters the author lists 20 varients of the G. Altifrons complex. Some people list them as different species and others as varients. And then there is also G. Altifons being called G. Abalios.

    The pics aren't the best but if I had to guess I would pick G. Proximus.
    I also downloaded your pic to my computer and sent a text to Spencer to see what he thinks it is. (Hope you don't mind.)

    Also I think the G. Brasiliensis would have been ok. I would have been more concerned about the Brasiliensis picking on the new addition, but they probably would have worked.

    I sent a message to Spencer last year asking him if he could find me some real Surinamensis, here is what he had to say to me.

    « Sent to: btate617 on: March 29, 2009, 03:03:55 PM »
    « You have forwarded or responded to this message. » Quote Reply Remove

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    real ones no, fake ones yes. (surinamensis only comes from the Suriname River, everything you see in the hobby is from Columbia, peru and places like that) most are usually proximus which are fairly readily available. Extremely slow growing fish. is a 5 year commitment to get big guys.

    little ones are usually around 10 bucks or less.


    « Sent to: btate617 on: March 29, 2009, 03:10:05 PM » Quote Reply Remove

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    I went looking for them in 2006 and was on their river for a week and caught what I thought was them only to find out after that we got Geophagus brokopondo which is acutally an even far more rarer one that got the scientists excited but i wanted surinamensis! everything in the hobby would be proximus. i have yet to see a single fish this past ten years that was surinamensis in the hobby.


    Brian
     




  4. OP
    OP
    Nutter

    NutterFishlore VIPMember

    Cool. Thanks for the info Brian. I sort of knew that it wouldn't be a true Surinamensis already as I know they are extremely rare, especially over here. I asked in the PM becasue I was simply hoping maybe I could have gotten really, really lucky & I'm not knowledgable enough with Geos to pick the subtle differences.

    I moved the Pearl because he turned into a terrorist after the new Geo arrived. He coloured up & started bullying the new fish. I expected that but once he had gotten the new fish into hiding permanantly, he started bullying the Sevs to. He sent everything into hiding & he was the only fish visible. It was a no contest for who to keep in there as the Pearl only cost something like $7 & there are thousands of them. The new guy cost $35 & are much more difficult to find. I did consider setting up a 4x2x2 I have set aside for a new rift lake tank but decided against it because of how common Pearls are & I really want a new rift lake tank with some rarer fish.

    One question though, is the new G. Proximus a male or female do you think?
     
  5. btate617

    btate617Well Known MemberMember

    That sounds more like it to me, I thought you were worried about the new fish bulling the others......


    As far as sex a Geo that size the only possible way to know would be to vent it as they all look the same. Sometimes in large mature fish the males will have longer trailers the problem is females will also have them. I believe male Proximus will develop a hump also but not positive.

    It also may not Proximus that would just be my guess, could possibly be Altifrons or....

    Your best bet would be ask the shop you got it from where it came from. Try and contact where it came from and keep tracking back from there. That would be the only 100% way to know. You may possibly be able to track back far enough to also get a location on it who knows.

    Did you move the sevs or are you going to try the two together?


    Brian
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Nutter

    NutterFishlore VIPMember

    Cool. Thanks heaps for your time Brian. The Sevs are still in the tank. It's actually the missus tank really but I do all the maintainance & try to get her to listen about stocking levels & compatibility, so I tend to think of it as my tank. We want to try to get the Sevs & Geo to get along & she wants to introduce a Chocolate (Hypselecara Temporalis) in the next few days along with some kind of mid sized (about 12") Pleco.

    :;thx for your time & effort Brian.
     
  7. btate617

    btate617Well Known MemberMember

    No worries.

    The sevs should be ok I would think.

    With the H. Temporalis I would get some either around 2" or closer to 8". The smaller ones will know to stay away while the bigger ones may deter the Geo with size alone. I have done chocolates at different times for about 10yrs and I would say they are the wimps of all cichlids that get to 10+ inches. My big pair were around 9" before they went to a friends house and I had to move them because they were getiing the crap kicked out of them by some 2" Gymnogeophagus Balzanii that I was growing out.


    Brian
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Nutter

    NutterFishlore VIPMember

    The Chocolate is coming from a friend that has a good breeding pair. They are about 2-3" so they should fit in perfectly I figure. There's lots of cover in the form of large hollow logs, tall pieces of wood & tall fake plants so hopefully they will all get along & feel fairly secure.
     
  9. btate617

    btate617Well Known MemberMember

    Awesome.

    Have you done Temporalis before? A very fun fish if you ask me. Anyone who wants a large meaty fish with out the aggression this is the one. Good luck Nutter with the new fish.


    Brian
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Nutter

    NutterFishlore VIPMember

    No I havn't done the Chocolates before. I've been watching the pair my mate has for the last year or so. I like the temperament & I don't mind waiting for them to get older & get thier proper colours so I always knew it was just a matter of time. Now that I've got a tank to do for the more peaceful cichlids they were my number one on the list to go in there. The missus isn't keen on them because she doesn't like waiting for fish to colour up but she knows if she wants me to look after them I have to get at least one fish of my choice. Can't wait until I get mine. I'll post pics when I do.
     
  11. btate617

    btate617Well Known MemberMember

    Did you get them yet.......
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Nutter

    NutterFishlore VIPMember

    Not yet Brian. He's got them for me but I havn't been down to pick them up yet. Probably sometime over the next week I'll pick them up. They are only about 3" long so they won't look real great yet.
     




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