Sexing honey gourami / is this a HG or thicklipped

MaddieM

Hi guys!

So yesterday I brought home a honey gourami that my LFS told me was a female, wondering if anyone agrees or disagrees. I have looked through a few forums sexing HGs but I still am not 100% sure as s/he has the dark stripe but also since bringing her home she’s calmed down and her fins have taken on some colour and her dorsal fin appears kind of pointy? (Pics of her in the bag was her being acclimated yesterday, out of bag is from today)
My other honey gourami I have no idea about, my LFS told me he was a male HG however after some research I’m wondering if he’s actually a thicklipped (again, lots of Google and forum searching but I just can’t figure it out.) The tail recently has started to take on a bit of colour where it used to be more transparent? If he isn’t a honey can you explain how you know as I feel like all the things I read they just look the exact same hahaha

They’ve been generally pleasant to each other, following each other around.
Opinions welcome! Thanks!
 

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Hellfishguy

Judging by the yellow dorsal, I’d say your new one is a male wild-type honey gourami. The other one looks like a female thicklip.
 

MaddieM

Judging by the yellow dorsal, I’d say your new one is a male wild-type honey gourami. The other one looks like a female thicklip.
So if there’s any colour on a wild type it’s probable male? I thought I’d read somewhere that a dark stripe meant female but maybe that was in abscence of colour
 

Hellfishguy

Both males and females show the dark stripe, especially when stressed. The most certain method of sexing honeys, both wild-type and gold, is to inspect the dorsal fin. Males have a lemon yellow dorsal and females have a thin orange edging on theirs.
 

MaddieM

Both males and females show the dark stripe, especially when stressed. The most certain method of sexing honeys, both wild-type and gold, is to inspect the dorsal fin. Males have a lemon yellow dorsal and females have a thin orange edging on theirs.
Oh interesting! Yes I can deffs see the new one’s dorsal is quite yellow compared to the old one, which seems more orange, now that you mention it
 

DoubleDutch

You have 2 different species there.
 

MaddieM

You have 2 different species there.
Yes that’s what I was trying to ascertain. They were both sold to me as honeys. Would you agree the larger one is actually a thick lipped? I’m hoping they still get along fine long term
 

jinjerJOSH22

Yes that’s what I was trying to ascertain. They were both sold to me as honeys. Would you agree the larger one is actually a thick lipped? I’m hoping they still get along fine long term
Yes the larger one is a Thick Lipped Gourami.
It can go well and it could go bad, that is just how it is. I had a mixed group for a while without issues in a 33 gallon, though in that case both had numbers of their own(8 Honeys and 5 Thick Lips) which in my experience is an important factor in successfully keeping Gourami together long term.
 

HungriestPuffer

Yes that’s what I was trying to ascertain. They were both sold to me as honeys. Would you agree the larger one is actually a thick lipped? I’m hoping they still get along fine long term
It'll probably go fine for a little while, but have a back-up plan. My thicklip female decided she doesn't like our male honey anymore and tends to chase him around the tank. There's no physical violence, just relentless chasing, but it's enough for me to decide to move her to another tank with three to four other friends. :)

EDIT: By the way, both of your fish are adorable. I have a real soft spot for thick-lip gouramis. They're highly underrated, quite personable fish. Maybe not the showiest in the tank but I think they're wonderful.

I'm also going to add... Some wild-type females are really confusing. Your honey gourami looks an awful lot like my female wild type gourami. Males -- and I saw a male of this type at the store -- tend to have extremely bright orange caudal fins and very bright lemon mohawks.
 

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Hellfishguy

The males with the red tails are gold honeys, a selectively bred strain of Trichogaster chuna.
 

HungriestPuffer

Hellfishguy they're gold honeys if the rest of their bodies are gold. A dominant male wild-type honey gourami -- they actually called them 'sunset' strain honey gouramis in the store, despite my female looking like a wild-type -- *CAN* have bright accent colors while in the holding tank in the store. I didn't see it during one visit, and I did during another.

Then again, I went on another day and saw what the LFS called wild-type honey gouramis, and they were all completely silver and impossible to sex in the store tank. Different from my 'sunset' wild-type strain, and different from the gold strain. It's all very confusing.

*EDITING TO ADD A LINK*

https://flic.kr/p/2iFPrbF this person's flickr photographs shows exactly what I'm talking about. The female in these photos is actually quite colored compared to most wild-types I see. Is this what should be called the sunset honey gourami strain, and wild types are different? I never understood the distinction, because I saw a lot of people calling gold honeys 'sunset' honey gouramis.
 

jinjerJOSH22

Hellfishguy they're gold honeys if the rest of their bodies are gold. A dominant male wild-type honey gourami -- they actually called them 'sunset' strain honey gouramis in the store, despite my female looking like a wild-type -- *CAN* have bright accent colors while in the holding tank in the store. I didn't see it during one visit, and I did during another.

Then again, I went on another day and saw what the LFS called wild-type honey gouramis, and they were all completely silver and impossible to sex in the store tank. Different from my 'sunset' wild-type strain, and different from the gold strain. It's all very confusing.

*EDITING TO ADD A LINK*

https://flic.kr/p/2iFPrbF this person's flickr photographs shows exactly what I'm talking about. The female in these photos is actually quite colored compared to most wild-types I see. Is this what should be called the sunset honey gourami strain, and wild types are different? I never understood the distinction, because I saw a lot of people calling gold honeys 'sunset' honey gouramis.
Keep in mind this is just a common name and can vary from place to place but “Sunset” refers to well coloured Gold Honey Gourami, where the colour goes from a yellow though orange and eventually bright red(similar to a sunset).

The female pictured is a nice looking female Wild colour, referring to what you would most likely find in the wild, while the Golds are selectively bred from these.
Hope this clears this up a little.
 

Hellfishguy

I’ve seen flame dwarf gouramis, Trichigaster lalius, sold as sunset gouramis. One common name for three very different species only serves to confuse people.
 

HungriestPuffer

Keep in mind this is just a common name and can vary from place to place but “Sunset” refers to well coloured Gold Honey Gourami, where the colour goes from a yellow though orange and eventually bright red(similar to a sunset).

The female pictured is a nice looking female Wild colour, referring to what you would most likely find in the wild, while the Golds are selectively bred from these.
Hope this clears this up a little.
This is helpful but not, lol!

I'm still a little bit confused because my LFS has made this extra strange, as they had separate tanks for 'Dwarf Honey Gouramis' (the fish in the tank all looked almost totally silver, no stripes visible, and were clearly Trichogaster Chuna), 'Sunset Honey Gouramis' (the fish in the tank looked gray with a thick stripe down the middle; I ended up taking a female home that looks like the picture above. she's beautiful, and I agree that I think it's a wild type), and 'Gold Honey Gouramis.' My gold honey male is quite intensely colored all the time. My confusion mostly has to do with the Dwarf Honey Gouramis, which looked like wild types to my eye, and my LFS's labeling of Sunset Honey Gouramis, which... look like an alternative morph of the totally silver wild type.

To make this even more wild, the Sunset Honey Gouramis were 100% trichogaster chunas, as they have another tank full of Sunset Thicklipped Gouramis labeled properly.
 

jinjerJOSH22

This is helpful but not, lol!

I'm still a little bit confused because my LFS has made this extra strange, as they had separate tanks for 'Dwarf Honey Gouramis' (the fish in the tank all looked almost totally silver, no stripes visible, and were clearly Trichogaster Chuna), 'Sunset Honey Gouramis' (the fish in the tank looked gray with a thick stripe down the middle; I ended up taking a female home that looks like the picture above. she's beautiful, and I agree that I think it's a wild type), and 'Gold Honey Gouramis.' My gold honey male is quite intensely colored all the time. My confusion mostly has to do with the Dwarf Honey Gouramis, which looked like wild types to my eye, and my LFS's labeling of Sunset Honey Gouramis, which... look like an alternative morph of the totally silver wild type.

To make this even more wild, the Sunset Honey Gouramis were 100% trichogaster chunas, as they have another tank full of Sunset Thicklipped Gouramis labeled properly.
Basically the important part is the scientific name Trichogaster Chuna(Although fish stores can still mislabel).
Common names are a commercial thing to sell fish like the Superduper yellow blue Honey Gourami. In the next town over it could be called a Gold Honey Gourami.
 

MacZ

Common names are a commercial thing to sell fish like the Superduper yellow blue Honey Gourami. In the next town over it could be called a Gold Honey Gourami.
There are actually scientific names, common names and trade names.
The scientific name is unambiguous and fixed. Most often the literature gives one or two "traditional" common names, that are accepted as valid generally for the fish in wild form or close-to-wild colouration.
The names for domestic strains of linebred colour/fin morphs are the tradenames. These can indeed vary. One example would be Apistogramma agassizii, of which the red/orange colour breed has been sold here under at least 6 different names within the past 10 years. Every breeder can make up a new name. The retailers interestingly often don't and just try to give the name listed in their inventory and shipping lists. The office workers often bastardize these names already when writing these lists.
Result: Chaos.
 

DoubleDutch

I’ve seen flame dwarf gouramis, Trichigaster lalius, sold as sunset gouramis. One common name for three very different species only serves to confuse people.
Some people never saw a sunset I guess.
There are actually scientific names, common names and trade names.
The scientific name is unambiguous and fixed. Most often the literature gives one or two "traditional" common names, that are accepted as valid generally for the fish in wild form or close-to-wild colouration.
The names for domestic strains of linebred colour/fin morphs are the tradenames. These can indeed vary. One example would be Apistogramma agassizii, of which the red/orange colour breed has been sold here under at least 6 different names within the past 10 years. Every breeder can make up a new name. The retailers interestingly often don't and just try to give the name listed in their inventory and shipping lists. The office workers often bastardize these names already when writing these lists.
Result: Chaos.
Always curious what they mean by
"triple red" in some names. Red Redder Reddest ?
 

MacZ

Always curious what they mean by
"triple red" in some names. Red Redder Reddest ?
Kinda, yes. Superduper hyper red. As long as it sounds cool.
 

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