Sexing Blue Ram Help

Discussion in 'Ram Cichlid' started by TrainerRuby, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. TrainerRubyValued MemberMember

    I've had this one for about a week in my community tank and I noticed my one gbr chasing it around every so often. I think it's female but I'm not sure. IMG_5695.JPG
     




  2. coralbanditWell Known MemberMember

    Female 99%
     




  3. TrainerRubyValued MemberMember

    IMG_5696.JPG
    This is the one chasing her safe to assume it's a male looking to pair off?
     




  4. coralbanditWell Known MemberMember

    That could be female also ?
    Need better picture from side .
     
  5. TrainerRubyValued MemberMember

  6. coralbanditWell Known MemberMember

    Could be young male but I think female ..
    Watch the chasing between the two. Females can be just as mean to each other as males .
     
  7. TrainerRubyValued MemberMember

    Would adding a male help or should I rehome one? I have a 25g that I can move one to if needed.
    Also how can you tell what they are? Like what are things to look at?
     
  8. CoptapiaWell Known MemberMember

    I’d say your original one is a male but I’m not certain. He’s settled and in or near breeding condition, so a female that isn’t will just be chased away (he’s waiting for one that is). Your new one is very young and nowhere near ready to breed. If you want a pair you’ll have to get a more mature female that’s very colourful (=in condition), so she can hold her own when dropped into his territory...

    If you really want a pair, the best thing would be to add a few and then take some back when a pair forms, if your shop is up for that.
     
  9. RainBettaWell Known MemberMember

    Hard to tell from lighting, but I'd say female. Just in case it turns out to be a male, I would hold off on adding a male.
     
  10. TrainerRubyValued MemberMember

    IMG_5712.JPG here's them side by side for size. So far watching them neither have physically touched the other so I don't think it's super aggressive. The bigger one just follows the smaller one and I'm not sure if the smaller sees that as a threat and takes off making the bigger chase after to keep following or what but I'll keep an eye on them and if I notice it become physical I'll rehome one.
     
  11. coralbanditWell Known MemberMember

    I look for things that are no sure fire first .
    Blue in black spot - female
    Pink belly - female
    Spiked dorsal - male
    More colorful- male
    Larger - male
    These are not guaranteed or even common anymore maybe .
    My best tell is the anal fin. A males anal fin will reach into the tail where a females will end at base of tale.
    If your ram in second picture anal fin grows longer then maybe male? The blue in the black is not overwhelming and it does have spikes .
    But I have seen many females with spikes .
    If they are the same age then the larger is male .
    Together they do look like a pair . I note no damaged fins so they are getting along ok ?
    I still think 2 females .
     
  12. TrainerRubyValued MemberMember

    There's no nipping from what I've seen and I haven't noticed any damage visible. The two Rams where gotten about a week apart altho from different lfs I'd still guess they're about the same age amybe three weeks difference if that helps any. I haven't noticed the bigger one flare up (not sure if they do but most fish do so I'm guessing Rams do also)
     
  13. AquaticJFishlore VIPMember

    Sometimes males will chase females, I never have them do physical damage though, usually only males will go to the point of physical damage. Of course, it’s just my experience and a male could absolutely cause damage.

    That said, I think the first one is female, and your other one is a young female based on the breeding tube, like coralbandit said, some easy ways of sexing are sometimes non existent nowadays. Anal fin is your best best, only one of my males has a anal fin that doesn’t reach into the caudal, the rest do.
     
  14. angelcrazeWell Known MemberMember

    Agreed, based on the breeding tube and looks of the first one, I say both are female. If the breeding tube wasn't out on the larger one, I might guess male because they do look like a pair, but I think the second is just older.

    One of my female GBRs has a large spike too.
    20190212_151507.jpg

    Sometimes I wonder if they develop this when there are no males present.
     
  15. angelcrazeWell Known MemberMember

    Oh and I had an EB male ram bite down the female's caudal fin in QT while I was at work. I came home, it was almost gone :( In hindsight, the QT tank might have been too small. She developed a bit of finrot, but pulled through no problem. Later I had them in my 120g where he continued to chase her relentlessly. Alas, she developped popeye, I guessed from an injury, I caught it early, but she didn't pull through this time in the hospital tank. He was an overly aggressive male, but was ok with my 3 female GBRs that I later added after my female EBR's death. You can never know how a cichlid will behave.
     
  16. Cale24New MemberMember

    Hard to say but I think that's a pair. The rear/ trailing edge of the dorsal fin tends to sharpen off to a point earlier in males as well. Also the tail 'corners' are sharper in males, with the tail trailing edge a bit more concave.

    Larger one I'd definitely say is male (mainly cause of that solid black dot). That said, my large pair of EBR look IDENTICAL aside from a debatably different anal fin. I can't tell them apart they're so similar.
    Often happens when they are fully grown that the traits are lost, but as others have said here, it can vary.

    Some videos:





    Love watching this knuckle-headed couple haha.
     
  17. CoptapiaWell Known MemberMember

    Sorry but none of the things you’ve mentioned here are true. Rams have a very large range and are hugely variable within it. There’s no defined difference in the caudal fin. The other fins are not reliable anymore (except in old fish) because of the diversity of genes present in most commercially bred Rams.
    The black spot never was a reliable sex difference.
    The older the fish, the more obvious the differences become. Old rams are the easiest to sex.
     
  18. Cale24New MemberMember

    I've kept many rams and on top of @coralbandit listed attributes, I've read about those others in numerous places.
    None are 100% reliable as I pointed out by contrasting points. The black spot isn't a certain tell but is usually pretty effective in a GBR unless its slightly 'washed out' and approaching what is more a Golden ram in colouration.

    And what I meant by fully grown- the dorsal spike for instance can often become identical to a male, but not always. The rams in my videos are a confirmed pair, and they look identical.
     
  19. CoptapiaWell Known MemberMember

    The GBR doesn’t have a ‘washed out’ black spot. The whole point of the GBR was to create a fish whose black didn’t fade but stayed black at all times.

    In your videos the one with the steeper forehead is the male. They’re not identical. There’s also a difference in the curve of the back. Head shape and body shape are the most reliable sex determiners in Blue Rams.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  20. Cale24New MemberMember

    Some GBR look almost like Golden rams but they are still classified as GBR. I can find many many examples but won't waste my time.
    The larger ram in this thread is a text-book GBR and not what I am describing.

    Apparently 'steeper forehead' is a trait though, everyone. So thanks for that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2019
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