Severe Bloating - Cause?

almrds

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Is there anything besides constipation that can cause severe bloating in a betta? Would internal parasites cause any other symptoms besides bloating?

So far, 4 days of fasting and 2 days of being fed pea hasn’t helped. I introduced some java moss from Petco (fish were in the tank the moss came from) a few weeks before the bloat started. No other symptoms than that.

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almrds

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DutchAquarium said:
Sounds like a bacterial infection of the swim bladder. Treat with maracyn 2 which is very effective. I would also add to the food to boost hisimmune system. Don't be surprised if you see some secondary infections after this.
Thank you for the reply! But I’m curious, I thought the swim bladder was located near the tail? The bloat is directly below him. I guess in his stomach area. Are you able to see in the picture? I’ll try to add another one from a different angle if I can get one
 

DutchAquarium

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you are right where the swim bladder is located, however if this isn't constipation which is my first thought, it's going to be a bacterial infection.
 

Rtessy

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Has he defecated at all? If not, it's pretty much certain to be severe constipation, which could have a number of causes. I've read that live daphnia can work better than peas for betta, but I don't know if you would have that option.
 
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almrds

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Rtessy said:
Has he defecated at all? If not, it's pretty much certain to be severe constipation, which could have a number of causes. I've read that live daphnia can work better than peas for betta, but I don't know if you would have that option.
Not that I’m aware of. I haven’t seen him do it, or seen any in the tank. There’s gravel at the bottom so there’s no telling. I was just at PetSmart and completely forgot about the daphnia. But I have a feeling they wouldn’t have it anyways. What do y’all think about trying an Epsom salt bath? I got some tonight and was planning to try it with him
 

Rtessy

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Epsom salt baths couldn't hurt, and they should relieve some pressure. And, of course, act as a mild laxative. Since two or three baths can be done safely in a day, I would start with just one or two a day for 10 minutes with a dosage of 1tsp per gallon. Also, if he defecates in the bath, you should immediately move him back to the tank. You seem very well prepared for this guy
And yes, most internal parasites show other symptoms. Also what's your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate at?
 

Rtessy

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Yeah, don't use aquarium salt with betta's, but Epsom salt isn't a salt in that sense and is safe. Salt has a different meaning in chemistry and just refers to the way it forms and how the cations and anions align
Edit: to clarify, aquarium salt often does much more harm than good for bettas, but Epsom salts are often used in freshwater aquariums as magnesium supplements and as a part of EI dosing.
It's safe as long as you have the unscented and undyed version.
Edit again, sorry: I mean 1 tbsp per gallon, my bad. I mixed it up with a dropsy treatment that requires Epsom salt in the main tank, not as a dip.
 
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almrds

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Rtessy said:
Yeah, don't use aquarium salt with betta's, but Epsom salt isn't a salt in that sense and is safe. Salt has a different meaning in chemistry and just refers to the way it forms and how the cations and anions align
Edit: to clarify, aquarium salt often does much more harm than good for bettas, but Epsom salts are often used in freshwater aquariums as magnesium supplements and as a part of EI dosing.
It's safe as long as you have the unscented and undyed version.
Edit again, sorry: I mean 1 tbsp per gallon, my bad. I mixed it up with a dropsy treatment that requires Epsom salt in the main tank, not as a dip.
I made sure it doesn’t have any dyes/perfumes! Ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - 5. About to try the bath for the first time. Hope this works!

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almrds

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He’s got himself upright now, but has been breathing very fast the whole time. Couple minutes left and then I’ll take him out. This is stressful
 

Rtessy

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Sorry, I had to take care of something. If he lists and can't right himself go ahead and take him out
Edit: (sorry about all the edits) and it is really stressful, I know the feeling. When I was treating my goldfish for the first time, he started gulping air at the surface almost immediately and seemed super irritated. After about 4-5 baths it didn't phase him at all. After around 20, he just didn't care, acting super normal.
 
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almrds

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Alright he’s back in his tank. Whew that made me nervous. He was breathing very hard the whole time.

So how long do I continue with the baths? Should I try any more peas? Should I feed him at all? I hate starving him
 

Rtessy

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Sorry that stressed you so much, it's really tough. It's generally the change in gH and TDS that stresses the fish, for example my fish was in about 57 TDS water, pretty soft, but the epsom salt jumped it up close to 400. How's he doing back in the tank? Still breathing heavy? Also nice parameters, that will help him. Fast for 1-2 more days, whatever makes you feel comfortable, and feed either pea or daphnia to break the fast. You can try shorter baths as well, since it's constipation you shouldn't need to do more than 1 a day I believe. I hope this helps you guy.
 
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almrds

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Yeah he’s still breathing heavily
but I feel like his breathing has become a little more labored looking from the bloat. Ok I’ll do what you suggested about the fasting. Have you ever seen daphnia sold at PetSmart or Petco? And thank you both for your help by the way! I hope this helps him too. He’s been such a healthy and energetic little guy until now. He still gets excited when he sees me because he wants food, but he’s definitely resting more. He likes to wedge himself between the side of the tank and his little hammock I made.

Here he was in the bath. Don’t think he was a fan of it:

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almrds

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Rtessy said:
Sorry, I had to take care of something. If he lists and can't right himself go ahead and take him out
Edit: (sorry about all the edits) and it is really stressful, I know the feeling. When I was treating my goldfish for the first time, he started gulping air at the surface almost immediately and seemed super irritated. After about 4-5 baths it didn't phase him at all. After around 20, he just didn't care, acting super normal.
That’s ok! Ohh wow you had to do 20? Did it help his constipation?
 

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I think I've seen frozen daphnia sold at Petco, but mine also sells discus, so I don't know how widely available it is. Would you be able to monitor his breathing over the next hour or so? It's likely only going to be necessary for the next 15 minutes, but just in case. He does not look like he enjoyed that bath, poor baby. Does he have a place near the surface where he can rest in the tank?
 

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almrds said:
That’s ok! Ohh wow you had to do 20? Did it help his constipation?
Haha, no sorry for the misunderstanding, you should really only have to do one total. My guy had dropsy, it was a bit more of an intense care for the past few weeks with 2 baths a day. He's actually been improving this past week, I think largely from a dose of kanaplex + the baths + daily 50% water changes. I hope you never have to go through that, talk about stressful lol. And I mean with constipation one bath normally does the trick.
 
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