Setup a self-sustaining tank (food-wise)

Well, but he is removing some from his drip system, and not using flourish. Well, how about I just show you a picture. Of mine. It isn't that complicated. I have 4-6Liters of it for 90 gallons of water (which includes the canisters and tank). I have two of these towers for the tank. How much you use is dependent upon your fish load. Mine is high and my loaches eat a small person. View attachment IMG_2294.jpg

Also. Fishlore is having issues lol

And texas is right about RO water, definitely need it and more!

 

Just let me know what you might be looking for and I can give you an idea.

Basically, I'd love something to make the tank look alive. I'm afraid the pea puffers will be tiny, the BB gobies will stand still at the bottom, and my 30 gallon tank will look empty.

I'd love a big centerpiece like the Pseudotropheus DemasonI but maybe that's not a good idea with the puffers. Maybe a Badis Badis?

Otherwise, a small bunch of small fish, I'd love to have 3 - 4 fancy guppies, but again, it's scary to put these with the puffers.


By the way, the tank will be a tall one, and the way I see it for now, there will be a rocky back on two sides, all the way to the top, and some planted driftwood (java fern and moss) in the rest of the column. Trying to avoid territorial issues.

 

What about Figure 8 puffers?

 

What about Figure 8 puffers?

That's actually not a bad idea but aren't they brackish?

 

How tall?

 

Very tall: 25.5" tall, 16.5" by 16.5" footprint. Hence the lots of rock in the back and spidery driftwood in the rest of the column. This tank needs to be layered.

 

Very tall: 25.5" tall, 16.5" by 16.5" footprint. Hence the lots of rock in the back and spidery driftwood in the rest of the column. This tank needs to be layered.

Then you will either want high wattage or lower light plants, if you choose plants... unless they grow up higher on top of driftwood or something.

 

Then you will either want high wattage or lower light plants, if you choose plants... unless they grow up higher on top of driftwood or something.

Yep, I'll have all that. Good wattage, low light plants, planted higher up.

 

They are brackish. Is that okay?

 

They are brackish. Is that okay?

Brackish is too much of a pain for me. I want to setup the same drip system I have on my main tank, which takes its water from the tap. So brackish isn't an option for me.

Plus, I want colonies of ramshorn snails, MTS, blackworms and RCS in the tank so that food can be hunted by the puffers and the BB gobies.

 

Yeah, if you're getting water from the tap that wouldn't work.

What about a single Congo puffer? MJDuti, do you think that would work in a 29 gal?

 

What about a single Congo puffer?

Ah ah definitely not a big fan of their looks! Sorry.

 

It is so ugly, that it is cute, darn you

It reminds me of some of these. Look at them! there is a puffer in here

 

Sorry for delay I have fine gravel about 2-3mm it keeps the large waste on top but doesn't dissappear on water changes I have a few plants and a fake grass that covers some of the gravel they love things to swim through and around, not sure on compatability as mine are in a dwarf puffer only tank, I belive they will nip if the other fish if slow and they can bully others if they eat the same foods.

 

Here's my wish-list for what I am dreaming of adding to this pea puffer & BB goby tank (of course, I will select one single of these options, if any):

• 1 Pseudotropheus demasoni
• 1 male Pseudotropheus saulosI (pretty, herbivorous and peaceful)
• 1 Convict (aggressive enough to fight the puffers off)
• 5 to 10 five-banded barb (a school might be safe from aggression?)
• 1 or 2 Peacock Goby (they would enjoy the blackworms)
• some Killifish (because... pretty!)

If any of these options is not viable, why? (I'm really interested in understanding why each of these options would not be viable).

 

Sorry how many puffers in what size tank? Couldn't find if you had already said, my puffers will not chase but if another gets close at feeding time they will dart towards the other puffer but never seem to touch they just seem to be making a point however every puffer is different most fish will be trial and error just try to make as much cover as possible so they can have their own areas to rest without the harassment from the puffers.

 

Sorry how many puffers in what size tank?

30 gallon tall with small footprint (but lots of "layers" with rocks and driftwood). Not sure how many puffers yet, maybe 3, 4, 5. Same for bumblebee gobies, maybe 3, 4, 5.

if another gets close at feeding time they will dart

Not sure whether there will be a "feeding time" as I'm planning on stocking the tank with snails, shrimps and worms and let the predators hunt.

never seem to touch they just seem to be making a point

Are you talking about a puffer-only tank here? Or is that with other fish as well?

Any opinions on my stocking options from my previous post?

 

The tank is big enough for 5 puffers 'by the book' but with plenty of plants to break line of sight and over filtering (my tank filter is rated for a tank 4 times bigger) you could bend this rule slightly. If your going to add other fish reduce the amount of puffers and add the other fish first, any other fish you add will be at risk. Puffers have a personality, like people each is different. When adding the puffers add them all together as only one will develop into a male as they all start female and secrete a hormone when changing preventing the others. Feeding time is a good idea as it gives you a chance to see the puffers well and ensure they are all eating properly. I don't think they will eat snails when very young as they suck them from the shells so you may be having to feed to begin with. Sorry for the long reply hope it helps.

 

I might already have some of those all over my main tank. Are they the tiny kind that reproduces like crazy? When I google them, I find all sorts of different looking snails...

They are those little guys. I have them in all of my tanks too.

 

Here's my wish-list for what I am dreaming of adding to this pea puffer & BB goby tank (of course, I will select one single of these options, if any):

• 1 Pseudotropheus demasoni
• 1 male Pseudotropheus saulosI (pretty, herbivorous and peaceful)
• 1 Convict (aggressive enough to fight the puffers off)
• 5 to 10 five-banded barb (a school might be safe from aggression?)
• 1 or 2 Peacock Goby (they would enjoy the blackworms)
• some Killifish (because... pretty!)

If any of these options is not viable, why? (I'm really interested in understanding why each of these options would not be viable).

The only one that might work is the barbs. Definitely no to the Africa cichlids. The convict will try to kill it and will likely end up killing itself from eating it. Peacock gudgeons are peaceful and slow - probably not good tank mates. Same with the killifish.

 

Here's my wish-list for what I am dreaming of adding to this pea puffer & BB goby tank (of course, I will select one single of these options, if any):

• 1 Pseudotropheus demasonI - Tropheus are demanding fish when by themselves. While I think the dwarf puffer may be fine acclimating to their water parameters. These fish are much larger and may stress the puffer out. Plus their diet is completely different, but just as demanding.
• 1 male Pseudotropheus saulosI (pretty, herbivorous and peaceful) - same as above
• 1 Convict (aggressive enough to fight the puffers off) -will eat puffer, or terrorize it to death
• 5 to 10 five-banded barb (a school might be safe from aggression?) too aggressive when feeding and will outcompete the puffers
• 1 or 2 Peacock Goby (they would enjoy the blackworms) - may work, but I've heard they do best in low-end brackish.
• some Killifish (because... pretty!) - may work, don't know

If any of these options is not viable, why? (I'm really interested in understanding why each of these options would not be viable).

Only small fish will work with them (if any), and in a big tank you're not going to get much over the 2" mark. Which in a big tank you may not see much. You could do a school of something, like chilI rasboras. I don't like my ember tetras (great fish in another tank) as they are typical tetras and pigs when feeding and may stress your puffer. Or you could do a small group of scarlet badis. I emphasize small because males can be feisty. These are all tiny fish btw. I would normally suggest habrosus cories as they are my favorite dwarf species but that tank might be too high for them. I've had a CPO for awhile and the crayfish is awesome! Maybe sparkling gouramies?


EDIT: don't knock the lurker species btw. Congos are pretty sweet. You should watch videos of them burying themselves in sand. They aren't community fish and this is what turns most people off. I had a really cool Palembang, or dragon, puffer not too long ago and he was the coolest single fish I've owned. I could watch him hunt all night.

 

Only small fish will work with them (if any), and in a big tank you're not going to get much over the 2" mark. Which in a big tank you may not see much. You could do a school of something, like chilI rasboras. I don't like my ember tetras (great fish in another tank) as they are typical tetras and pigs when feeding and may stress your puffer. Or you could do a small group of scarlet badis. I emphasize small because males can be feisty. These are all tiny fish btw. I would normally suggest habrosus cories as they are my favorite dwarf species but that tank might be too high for them. I've had a CPO for awhile and the crayfish is awesome! Maybe sparkling gouramies?


EDIT: don't knock the lurker species btw. Congos are pretty sweet. You should watch videos of them burying themselves in sand. They aren't community fish and this is what turns most people off. I had a really cool Palembang, or dragon, puffer not too long ago and he was the coolest single fish I've owned. I could watch him hunt all night.

I just want to check, five banded barbs are out of the question? I thought they were much less aggressive than tiger barbs, they would be in a school, and they would eat pellets (as opposed to pea puffers and bb gobies who would hunt the snails/worms/shrimps). Wouldn't that work ?

 

I have found that fish that grow up with ones that are normally their prey, when they are both about the same size, usually never eat their tank mates unless they are "aggressive" or they are starving. And when they do is so soo seldomly that their population still grows. hence, why my loaches have never finished off all of my shrimp and their population is still there...HOWEVER, you may need to occasionally add more prey into the tank. I had to keep adding more until their was a balance and I think honestly they just got tired of eating them and prefer now shrimp pellets because either they taste better, it is less work, or it is more nourishing, or they consider them "friends"

 

Cool.

I have a good feeling for that tank, can't wait to get back to it, it's just waiting for me at home and I don't know when I'll get to go back there!

 

I have found that fish that grow up with ones that are normally their prey, when they are both about the same size, usually never eat their tank mates unless they are "aggressive" or they are starving. And when they do is so soo seldomly that their population still grows. hence, why my loaches have never finished off all of my shrimp and their population is still there...HOWEVER, you may need to occasionally add more prey into the tank. I had to keep adding more until their was a balance and I think honestly they just got tired of eating them and prefer now shrimp pellets because either they taste better, it is less work, or it is more nourishing, or they consider them "friends"

This is the same concept.

Not the same concept. Fish that grow up with their prey will still eat them given the chance. They're predators, not hormonal mother mammals. I've seen it in my tanks. The loaches probably haven't finished off your shrimp because they can't find them or because you overfeed them on bloodworms and they're not hungry. They don't consider the shrimp friends. (You're anthropomorphizing - you're a physiology/psychiatry student, right? You should know better )

OP, the banded barbs may not be aggressive in a large enough school towards the puffer, but they will outcompete them for food if you offer something other than snails.

 

OP, the banded barbs may not be aggressive in a large enough school towards the puffer, but they will outcompete them for food if you offer something other than snails.

But that's my point. Puffers will eat the worms, shrimps and snails already in the tank (since I'm trying to have sufficient colonies of those in the tank), and barbs will eat pellets. The remains of the pellets, what the barbs spit out or miss, will feed the worms, shrimps and snails, allowing their colonies to grow. Sounds like a good plan to me.
Just needs sand substrate (to protect worms and snails) and lots of hiding places (for the shrimps).

 

Well, may be so, I think if they got hungry enough they would eat them, but I see a baby walk in front of them and they look at it like it has an illness and then just watch it walk lol. Then run back to the others.

Either way, I guess that is just how I looked at it. When I first got them, I had to keep sticking them in there, but then one day, I still had shrimp and yes it might be because they get fed better foods. Or they got sick of it, but now the shrimp hang out with them in the tubes LOL... usually the loach doesn't care but if it sees one outside there it does. The loach would be in there no matter what. its like their home

BTW, wasn't that video cute? If I were that squirrel I would be purring too!

 

But that's my point. Puffers will eat the worms, shrimps and snails already in the tank (since I'm trying to have sufficient colonies of those in the tank), and barbs will eat pellets. The remains of the pellets, what the barbs spit out or miss, will feed the worms, shrimps and snails, allowing their colonies to grow. Sounds like a good plan to me.
Just needs sand substrate (to protect worms and snails) and lots of hiding places (for the shrimps).

I think the barbs would go after the worms and shrimp too. I don't think you'll be able to keep either colony going with them in there.

 

I think the barbs would go after the worms and shrimp too. I don't think you'll be able to keep either colony going with them in there.

Ow... Didn't think of that. When I read "more peaceful than tigers" I assumed they were sweet like Harlequins.

I really don't know what I could add to that tank that would only eat the pellets, and not be bothered by (nor bother) the pea puffers.

Guppies? German blue rams? Dario Darios?

I loved the idea of a Pseudotropheus or of the Five Banded Barbs!

 

If the temperature is right, celestial danios? They might get picked on though, however, I think these fish are prettier than puffers

 

But pretty in pictures isn't the only thing that matters to me. I like the way fish move and behave. I find Harlequins very relaxing and Bettas almost cat-like. I'm looking forward to the puffers' shenanigans

But you think celestial danios would work here? I do like them.

 

Ow... Didn't think of that. When I read "more peaceful than tigers" I assumed they were sweet like Harlequins.

I really don't know what I could add to that tank that would only eat the pellets, and not be bothered by (nor bother) the pea puffers.

Guppies? German blue rams? Dario Darios?

I loved the idea of a Pseudotropheus or of the Five Banded Barbs!

Even harlequins would eat the worms. You're anthropomorphizing Yes, they're peaceful, but they're still fish that eat inverts.

I'd say no to the guppies and Rams. Badis would also eat worms. Not sure how CPDs would do. MJDutI ?

 

Ideally, I'd put the puffers and bb gobies first (after having established colonies of worms, snails and shrimps) and then see what's what. If I'm happy with that tank, if food chain is balanced...

But from what I understood from this thread, once I put the puffers in, it's hard to add anything more because they will have claimed the territory, right?

It's hard to make a full stocking decision from the get go.

Even harlequins would eat the worms. You're anthropomorphizing Yes, they're peaceful, but they're still fish that eat inverts.

Yeah but in my other tank, Harlequins leave the shrimps be. I was thinking five banded barbs would be similar in that way. I want the "live food" stocked in my tank to be for the fish that will only accept that (since puffers and bb gobies almost exclusively eat live food as opposed to five banded barbs who would accept pellets), and not be decimated by the extra fish I'm adding.

 

You can't keep the other fish from eating the worms and the baby shrimp though, and they very well might do that. And I wouldn't count on having a stable worm population once you add the fish. I would start colonies in another tank too to supplement this tank.

 

Even with enough hiding places (holes for shrimps and sand for worms and snails) and a light fish stock?

If need be, I won't put anything else than a few pea puffers and a few gobies in this 30 gallon tank (which would be a huge tank for only these tiny fish).

 

Possibly with a light fish stock, but you're not stocking very lightly with puffers, BB gobies, and a school of mid/top dwellers.

And to my knowledge, the blackworms don't try to hide. They're half buried in the substrate, with the other half waving in the water.

 

Darn. This project is falling apart. I don't really want to have to cultivate live food and feed it daily.

 

You can also feed frozen foods. There's really no way to get around maintenance. Even with a drip system, you'll have to gravel vac sometimes.

 

I know but daily feeding is different than weekly cleaning. Plus it's the food chain aspect that was appealing to me. At least in parts.

I use a Eheim food dispenser on my other tank. That doesn't work for frozen food.

 

I know but daily feeding is different than weekly cleaning. Plus it's the food chain aspect that was appealing to me. At least in parts.

I use a Eheim food dispenser on my other tank. That doesn't work for frozen food.

Ive read about frozen fish food auto feeders. Ive never been into auto feeders that kinda the main reason we own pets is to watch them eat, grow and interact.