Settling the reflection debate

I've seen a lot of threads about fish, usually Bettas, seeming to attack their reflections and possibly being stressed by them. A few people have claimed that there's no way the fish can see any reflection at all and that there must be another explanation. So... I bought myself a waterproof camera bag and had a look for myself!

Note that I was still a little nervous about drowning my camera so I didn't take the greatest footage but I think you can see that the angelfish definitely have reflections!

https://youtu.be/HAEfSeI5toc

 

Considering that I can see their reflections I have no doubt that they can as well. It was nice of you to risk your camera in the name of science. Alison

 

Oh yes! They definitely see their reflections! That is what caused my last angelfish pair to keep fighting with each other. They kept seeing each others (and their own) reflections and it stressed them out and made them head-butt the glass wall in an attempt to "attack" that reflection. And then they would end up beating on eachother getting confused by the reflections. It just wasn't pretty. Then I put a "busy" background on the tank, it did help a little bit....they couldn't see their reflections as clearly...but they were still seeing them and getting spooked by them.

Basically....if the fish are attacking the wall where their reflection is...clearly they see their reflection! Right?!

 

Makes sense to me! I would like to get a proper waterproof camera now though so I can get clearer pictures. Having a layer of not-so-clear plastic in front of the lens doesn't make for BBC-quality footage

 

The thing is reflections can also be caused by glare! I think the best way would be to go into the pool and get a piece of large glass to test this out. The thing about cameras as many people know when filming there tank is it catches any glare or stuff. A camera is made out of lenses so it will catch reflections also! It is still a debated topic though and probably still will be!

There are so many factors and one must rely on science rather than speculations! Water can bend light differently than air so we can't really use a window. Also I believe there is a difference depending on the tank. I think that rectangular tanks will have a harder time. If you look straight at your aquarium or look at any angles you won't see your own reflection. However when you have 2 glasses you might be able to see your reflection. That is why at least for rectangular tanks when you look at the side glasses it looks like a mirror. I think when it comes to lighting only the Finnex 24/7 might be the best light to have at least for a factor. Some people use the fact that when they turn the light off in there tank and the lights are on surround the fish freaks out however this might be because the sudden change may startle a fish. A Finnex 24/7 I believe normally dims at night so the light starts to slowly fade like in nature.

 

I don't know what your argument is.

I put the camera inside the tank so that I would see what the fish see, with no need to account for light refraction when passing between air and water.

 

Al913 I don't see how there is any debate...I watched my angels attack their own refelction. I watched them "flash" at their own reflections just as they would if there was another angelfish in front of them...they clearly CLEARLY think they are seeing another angelfish...there is no "speculation" there....it is a fact. What is the need for scientific proof?

Gosh, I didn't even know this was a debated subject until now!

 

If you read other forums and on websites you will see why its a widley debated topic. Sadly I didn't know it was a topic at all until you brought it up and researched it. However some fish will see there reflection that is a fact! But not all and not all tanks may produce this reflection. Many people who kept there bettas never had there bettas flare while some have had there betta flare relentlessly. The thing is, it isn't a yes or no answer it varies among aquariums and fish. Not all tanks produce reflections.

 

Don't you think then that the difference is more likely to be in the reaction of the individual fish than in the unproven assertion that some tanks don't reflect?

 

If you read other forums and on websites you will see why its a widley debated topic. Sadly I didn't know it was a topic at all until you brought it up and researched it. However some fish will see there reflection that is a fact! But not all and not all tanks may produce this reflection. Many people who kept there bettas never had there bettas flare while some have had there betta flare relentlessly. The thing is, it isn't a yes or no answer it varies among aquariums and fish. Not all tanks produce reflections.

Ya, I am sure it isn't black and white. Not all tanks are the same.

I don't feel like doing the research on it HAHA so I will just take your word for it!

My angels didn't care about the reflections until they had babies to protect. Until that happened I had no idea they saw their reflections!! It doesn't mean they didn't see reflections before, it just means they weren't phased by them.

 

Another thing is not all fish see the same kind of reflection! Some might actually see a whole fish while other will sometimes see just an out line or a shadow! Also with angels the thing is they normally do fine when they are in schools until they start paring off and start breeding that is when they will defend the territory from any fish.

 

???

 

Also with angels the thing is they normally do fine when they are in schools until they start paring off and start breeding that is when they will defend the territory from any fish.

Including their reflections!!! LOL Like I said! HAHA

In my experience, angelfish only work as "schools" when they are juvies. As adults, that just isn't the case....whether they are breeding or not!

 

I see it mostly come up with bettas. What I see debated though is that it's good for fish, especially bettas to see their reflections so they will continuously flare and exercise. I've read articles, and forum posts that saids with bettas you should put a mirror on the tank, or hold one up daily for the betta to flare at.

For blue water, my outgoing betta, she would attack the side of the tank due to seeing her reflection. It became a constant thing and finally stopped when I put plants there to block the reflection. Fortunately, she isn't a betta with a long tail so the constant flaring wasn't too hard on her, but I could tell by her coloring she was getting too stressed out about it.

 

Yes constant flaring can be bad for bettas which is why sometimes in pet stores (Petco now has dividers!) the bettas might not be active since they were probably flaring the whole day

 

The debate I was talking about was whether the fish are able to see reflections at all.

 

It depends on the tank and fish!

 

The only thing I'd say is in a straight on shot would you are a reflection of the camera and such or no? Because at an angle it is totally different.

 

I'll have to do it again. I didn't want to scare my angels so I was being careful, but I want to try it again in a standard tank rather than a bowfront and actually look for my camera's own reflection straight on.

 

I'll have to do it again. I didn't want to scare my angels so I was being careful, but I want to try it again in a standard tank rather than a bowfront and actually look for my camera's own reflection straight on.

That would be perfect and I'm not sure it would be debatable after that

 

Also just wondering are fishes eyes different from camera lens and human eyes? Some of them might not even catch there reflection since even if there were one (usually the reflection isn't clear its usually a partial ) they might not even see it.

 

If you think about it, there's no way that any animal can be unable to see its own reflection provided it can see in that wavelength of light. If it can see others it can see itself.