setting up for baby pleco and many small fish, what plants would you reco?

I have almost zero experience with aquarium plants, so I am wanting to see what would be recommended for my aquarium setup as I set it up.

First, let's get the specifics out of the way. it's a 90 gal in a dark corner of my room, not yet put together, will be cycled fresh with plants in it and TSS (if I can find it). I have a canister filter and will be using a small bubblepump and stone, eventually expanding to a couple 12 inch or greater bubblestones across the back, but I plan on running them at minimal air throughput so it won't be terribly turbulent. The current light is for a 90 gal, a single fluorescent tube, 6500k color temp sylvania, 32w. I am going to cycle it with the natural night/day patterns here, and am eventually going to replace it with a warm light full spectrum self built LED light bar of whatever is needed for the plants I will have.

The tank will be populated with some cherry barbs, many neon tetras, some albino cory, and two common pleco (verysmall, about an inch, I want to watch them grow!)

I really like tall grass style plants, but am open to other style too. If any plant looks like miniature english ivy that you can recommend for my setup, I will love you forever!

What would be best for this setup, and what would be best not considering current lighting? I will replace the light right away if needed, I am very good with electric and electronic crafting, used to be an electrician and am a computer casemodder and electronics project builder so custom making a light for this is definitely in my future and I can tailor it to the plants I get.

Remember the plecos will be one inch or so at start and all my other fish are tame but fin-nippy species and max of 2 inch, and I like tall grass style plants...

OH I forgot! I will be using tan or white sand, and will have LARGE stones and driftwood in the tank.

What say you, folks with experience?

Thanks tons for the help and for reading!

 

Welcome to FishLore!

Sounds like a very active tank! First of all I'd suggest not having two common plecos. Instead just go with one. Larger plecos are territorial and easily beat each other up when they are fighting over territory. They can also pretty easily tear up any decorations or remodel the tank to their own liking. So plants don't always do that well with them. Do you already have the plecos? If not I'd suggest trying a different kind of pleco. Royal Panaques and Flamefin Plecos come to mind. They both get pretty big but again should be kept without others of their own species. The Panaque might tolerate another fish of its species. I have Clown Panaques and man can they fight! They are only a couple inches but they can cause some serious destruction when they are fighting over a piece of wood. They can move my large pieces of driftwood across the tank. Just imagine that times 10 when you get a larger pleco!

Why do you want to cycle with TSS? If you already have the tank I would suggest doing a fishless cycle with the plants. That would give the plants a head start to grow and you won't have to worry about the fish suffering. Some nice grass types plants are Vals and Hairgrass. You can get Dwarf and Giant Hairgrass. Chain Swords are also kind of grass like. I don't know any aquatic plants that look like ivy when dealing with leaf shape but there are several plants you can train to clime things. Moss does that best. I have Subwassertang (don't you just love the name LOL) and that grows well. I'm also getting Java Moss soon so I can make a moss wall.

One thing you you want to do if you intend to keep lots of plants is get CO2. I have a 5lb canister and it works really well. The plants will use the CO2 and that helps growth.

 

Thanks for the post

Why does everyone keep steering me away from the common pleco? I really want one, I used to have one long ago, and two at one inch will not have issues for a long time in a 90 gallon tank by all my research, but I will just get one if I must, though I really do have my heart set on getting at least one common pleco, I miss my old one.

I can't find much reliable info on cycling fishless especially with a large tank and plants... though by what I research an uncycled tank with very light fish population is actually non-harmful as the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all near or at zero, so long as the other parameters are fine (pH, et al)... I don't wanna start the tank with full population, something very, very light like a few albino cory and some cherry barb.

as for co2... I plan on running an airstone in the tank, and many people seem to forget that those just pump what is in the atmosphere into the tank, which includes co2. I think if I run that at the correct volume, it should give the plants enough co2 to do well.

I wanna populate the tank slowly, it's a 90 gal which is huge compared to a couple of plants and a few tetra size fish... From the homework I have been doing (hours a day of reading!), that much water volume with such few/small fish and plants with proper attention and carefulness will not cause the fish to suffer much or at all in cycling.

oh one last thing... if I sound angry or nippy or irritable, it's because I had surgery yesterday to remove a huge (ping pong ball sized) sebaceous cyst (however those are spelled) from the top of my head and am rather cranky from sore-pain and such. so... if I am kinda edgy, I don't mean to be, I'm sorry.

 

Welcome to Fishlore.

I had a sebaceous cyst removed from my back. I completely understand what you are going through! Take it easy and in a few days you should be back to your usual self.

A 90G tank will give you many, many options for stocking and planting. My high tech tank is also 90G.

Your lighting will not work for plants. A single T8/T12 32W tube over a 90G tank is not even enough light for low light plants. And most LED fixtures produce so little light that they are not the best, unless you plan on purchasing many, many LED strips.

What type of tank are you wanting? Some of the plants listed are much more demanding with lighting and will require CO2 so no bubble wall!

The best way to set up a new tank with plants is to plant first. Then cycle for a couple of months with no fish. Even small fish can break or dig up the plants making it harder for them to root well.

I know you have your heart set on a Common Pleco, but they are far too destructive in a planted tank. I had to move mine when he was only 6 inches as he became a bulldozer. It was either him or the plants. Something had to go! I would suggest a Clown or a Bristlenose Pleco. Otherwise you will be rehoming you "tiny plecos" in just a year. If you do choose a Common Pleco, only get 1; or give up the plants.

Have fun setting up your new tank and take care of yourself!

 

I love the common pleco. worst case scenario the plants are tossed. I will *NOT* rehome the plecos. Also, if I absolutely have to, I can partition this tank into two 55 gallon tanks for the two plecos... though I would rather not.

I also thank you for combining my posts, I was a bit out of it when posting >.> I have a staple in my head!

As for LEDs.... um... you don't know about the more powerful variety that requires heatsinks and active cooling (a cooling fan) do you? They are used in searchlights and such.

LUXEON Altilon LEDs are designed for automotive forward lighting applications and are tested to withstand extreme temperatures and conditions.
Over 850 lumens at 1000 mA and 60 MNits at 1000 mA

as one example...


omg... you live in medford! My best friend lived there her whole life and moved up past me (I'm near eugene) and she moved to Portland like 6 months ago.

 

I would guess also that 2 common plecos have too much bio load when they reach adult size in a 90 gal. I have 3 plecos in my 90 gal that are 6-7 inches adult size & they are a lot to keep up with, plus 2 of them got in a fight recently & really tore things up, they are VERY territorial. If you do try it make sure they each have their own piece if driftwood & hiding spots.

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Then, you will be setting up a tank for a Common Pleco and working around him. Are you aware that a 90G is too small for an adult? You are going to need a 125G to house a single adult! Please consider the future in your plans. While smaller the 90G is more than large enough, but in a couple of years that simply will not be the case.

With a Common Pleco, you would need very sturdy and tough plants. Those that might work are anubias, Dwarf Sag and Vals. The pleco will destroy grasses, break most crypts, eat Baby Tears, snack on Water Wisteria, and completely demolish the largest of Amazon Swords!

Thank you for the information on those lights. Most of the LEDs marketed in the aquarium trade need much more work to be used as primary lighting.

 

yeah I said that about the LED lighting sold as this in another thread, you MUST DIY for LEDs to be any good right now, and you are welcome!

If 90g is somehow too small for a single pleco, why does everywhere I have ever read say that 55 gallon is the absolute minimum for one full grown common pleco (not bristlenose which require less)? Everywhere I have ever seen says their absolute max size is 20 inches, most say even smaller than that... and that it will take some 20 years for them to get that size. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that information everywhere I have read (including here!) conflicts with the info you are giving.

As for the bio load of two plecos, I can get another canister filter made for 100 gallons, and run that if I have to. If that is too much to keep them healthy, I can definitely either rehome one or in 10 years (or 5 if they grow like weeds compared to the information all over) I can get a second tank and/or a bigger tank. This is a rural area next to a city (eugene/springfield) so I am pretty dang sure I can find a good properly caring home for one in 10+ years if it becomes a problem.

I have three pieces of driftwood, one which is rather sizable... I also have a single good hiding place for one up to 12 inches already, and some rather large sedimentary (very flat) rocks I am going to construct a hiding spot for them out of.

If I have to I can partition off areas in the back for some plants once the plecos get bigger, with maybe fiberglass screening or something.

 

A lot of places say a lot of things, doesn't mean they are right. Concider this a 55gal is 13 inches wide, and 4 ft long. Doesthat sound like enough room for a almost 2 ft fish to turn around or swim in? A 90 is only 5 inches wider with the same length, if you divided it, you with have 2 20inch fish each with a 18 by 24 inch space to move around.

And as far as when they reach adult size, always stock according to the adult size of the fish.

And extra filters may help with some of it but the nitrates will climb faster, meaning more frequnent, larger water changes.

 

...you didn't see the part where I said I was going to either rehome one if it became a problem or get another aquarium?...

It's also a little late, because there are two 3/4 inch pleco in a temp tank right now beside me....

 

Ok, you also mentioned dividing the tank. You wanted to know why people where against it, I gave a reason.

 

oh, ok. sorry...

 

I am speaking from personal experience. I have had many plecos over the years. Once I rescued common plecos in a 55G tank. There were 2 that measured 18 and 22 inches each. These guys could not turn around in the tank and had to actually do a somersault to change directions. It was quite sad to see that!

Another time I was given an unwanted 3 inch common pleco. Kept it in my 90G planted tank until he grew to 6 inches. That took less than a year. He was destroying the plants. After talking with others who care for these fish, I learned that these fish can actually grow over 2 foot long and that they need a 125G or larger tank. Today, just a couple of years later he is over a foot and quite the bully when someone disturbs him or his hiding spot. I cannot imaging keeping 2 in this tank, let alone in a smaller tank.

Today I have a mated pair of bristlenoes plecos in my planted tank. The male is full grown at 6 inches. They do not root around under the hardscape and are not destructive with the plants.

The point of all this is that what is often published about the size of fish or their minimum requirements is often inaccurate. As fish never stop growing, over time too small a tank can cause issues, most notably stunting. For example, Silver Dollars. Most sources claim a 30G tank is all that's needed; but experience has taught me that that these schooling fish need a 6 foot long tank to avoid banging into the glass. It is best to find others with experience and not take everything you read as gospel; otherwise we'd still be housing bettas in those tiny, less than half gallon containers.

 

Would you talk to the powers that be for changing this site's official required tank size for the pleco, in that case? This site combined with many others saying this is why I got two.
https://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-Pleco.htm

I believe you that if they were 2 feet they would be too big for this, there is no way I would keep two in this if they got that big.

 

Before I begin I just want to say I'm not trying to be mean or anything. I am merely being blunt so you understand what I'm saying. Often talking around things doesn't get us anywhere and frankly I'm not good at it the vast majority of the time.

Why does everyone keep steering me away from the common pleco? I really want one, I used to have one long ago, and two at one inch will not have issues for a long time in a 90 gallon tank by all my research, but I will just get one if I must, though I really do have my heart set on getting at least one common pleco, I miss my old one.

Most likely people are trying to convince you not to get common plecos because they get huge and are difficult to care for you properly. People wouldn't just tell you not to get a certain kind of fish just to be mean. Most likely they are trying to help you make the best decision for your tank and your peace of mind in the end.

I can't find much reliable info on cycling fishless especially with a large tank and plants... though by what I research an uncycled tank with very light fish population is actually non-harmful as the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all near or at zero, so long as the other parameters are fine (pH, et al)... I don't wanna start the tank with full population, something very, very light like a few albino cory and some cherry barb.

I wanna populate the tank slowly, it's a 90 gal which is huge compared to a couple of plants and a few tetra size fish... From the homework I have been doing (hours a day of reading!), that much water volume with such few/small fish and plants with proper attention and carefulness will not cause the fish to suffer much or at all in cycling.

If you can't find any reliable information of doing a fishless cycle with a large tank and plants then I suggest you post a thread on the forum talking about it. I myself have done it a couple of times and I know several other people on this forum are much more knowledgeable than me when cycling is concerned. I know the basics but I know of at least one person on this forum that makes a living by knowing the ins and outs of the Nitrogen Cycle. Cycling with fish in the tank is harmful to the fish no matter how you cut it. Low ammonia and nitrite in the water of your tank won't cycle as well as a tank with higher levels of ammonia and nitrite. The higher levels of ammonia and nitrite encourages fast growth of the nitrifying bacteria. If you don't have a lot of bacteria in your filter then they won't be able to process larger amount of ammonia and nitrite in your tank which will occur after you add more fish.

as for co2... I plan on running an airstone in the tank, and many people seem to forget that those just pump what is in the atmosphere into the tank, which includes co2. I think if I run that at the correct volume, it should give the plants enough co2 to do well.

That is incorrect. Your airstone pulls in air from the room and pushes it through tubes into your tank. You are correct in that there is some CO2 in the air when it is pushed into your tank. However the percentage of CO2 in the air is 0.039%. That is not very much CO2. And then there is the problem of how much is actually absorbed into your tank. Some plants are found in stagnant water where decomposition releases CO2 into the water. This increases the concentration of CO2 in the specific plants environment. So some plants grow better when they have higher concentrations of CO2 in their environment. This is why many people who keep tanks artificially inject CO2 into the tank so the plants grow better. Some plants, like Anubias and Java Fern, do not need this extra boost of CO2 to grow healthy. Other plants, like Amazon Swords and Baby Tears, do need the extra CO2 in their environment and do not grow well without it.

I love the common pleco. worst case scenario the plants are tossed. I will *NOT* rehome the plecos. Also, if I absolutely have to, I can partition this tank into two 55 gallon tanks for the two plecos... though I would rather not.

If 90g is somehow too small for a single pleco, why does everywhere I have ever read say that 55 gallon is the absolute minimum for one full grown common pleco (not bristlenose which require less)? Everywhere I have ever seen says their absolute max size is 20 inches, most say even smaller than that... and that it will take some 20 years for them to get that size. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that information everywhere I have read (including here!) conflicts with the info you are giving.

I understand that you love Common Plecos or the idea of having a Common Pleco. I'm not sure how long ago you kept a Common Pleco but memories often highlight some things for us to remember and some less savory things are not often remembered in great deal. Trust me I do understand how you want Commons because I kept and bred Commons for many many years. I do not know where you did your research on Commons but it is completely incorrect. Often it is best cross reference sources and see if you get the same results. Then ask the forum what they think. We have many members here who have a lot of experience and may be able to prove the websites incorrect. Often websites are not correct. This could be because of people writing the articles who do not have a lot of knowledge on the subject or that the information is merely outdated. The absolute minimum for a Common Pleco, in my opinion, is a 125g or larger. I usually recommend not keeping them in smaller than 180g tanks. Common Plecos usually grow to 24 inches long but I have had some that are 26+. My largest was pushing 27 inches. Common Plecos may be able to live for 20 years or more but it certainly doesn't take them that long to grow to their full size. Once they get growing Commons can easily put on an inch a month. Many of my Plecos were full sized before they turned four. It usually takes around two and a half to three years for a Common to get to their maximum size.

As for the bio load of two plecos, I can get another canister filter made for 100 gallons, and run that if I have to. If that is too much to keep them healthy, I can definitely either rehome one or in 10 years (or 5 if they grow like weeds compared to the information all over) I can get a second tank and/or a bigger tank. This is a rural area next to a city (eugene/springfield) so I am pretty dang sure I can find a good properly caring home for one in 10+ years if it becomes a problem.

What is your gph? Most likely even that won't be enough filtration if you are intending to stock more fish other than just the Common Plecos. Common Plecos eat huge amounts of food and as a result create huge amounts of waste. They can easily foul the water of a tank without the proper filtration.

It's also a little late, because there are two 3/4 inch pleco in a temp tank right now beside me....

Aha. I have a question. How long have you had the plecos?


Again, I am not trying to be mean or cruel. I am just being blunt to get my point across.

 

I see no cruel or mean in your statements at all, by the way

I have had them for... a matter of hours now.



I am monitoring their temperature carefully and working on slowly cross-adding water between the tank and their bowl.

They may be bristlenose, they are far too small for me to tell at this time.

I had no idea the co2 would not absorb well into water from air, that is a major surprise to me... How is the co2 from canisters injected into the water?

As for the size of them... maybe I will be prepared to get a larger tank by the time they get too big... I hope so. I also am wondering (because of their spots) if they are even common, they may be bristlenose.


As for cycling the tank, I plan on adding the fish 3 at a time, and they are small fish... the bacteria can build slowly with the increasing numbers. I tend to only buy things for myself (which this whole thing is for myself) once a month, and that is when I will get say 3 tetras, 3 albino corydoras, et cetra.

 

We inject pure CO2 into our tanks and that increases the amount that is absorbed into the water because a higher concentration is there.

 

There is a sticky in the beginer's forum with good instructions for fishless cycling... give me a minute I'll add a link.
Here it is

 

My filter is a fluval 405, supposed to be 340GPH.

I'm really weirded out by you two saying 55 isn't nearly enough for a common pleco, because I read literally for hours a day for the last four days looking up stuff about this, and everywhere said 55 was the bare minimum for an adult pleco, even this site says that on the wikI like page for them!...

Lexi, that one didn't talk about fishless with a big tank and with plants, if I recall correctly. My memory may be wrong, Ive read so much in the last few days and I have a staple in my head right now too >.<

BTW thank you all very much for the continued help, it is verymuch appreciated! <3

Lexi, that doesn't even seem to talk about plants being in there at all... which was my hang-up with it... maybe I am just not seeing something obvious?

 

It applies the same to any size tank. You need a certain amount of ammonia in your water when doing a fishless cycle. Usually a couple drops do. Suppose you add two drops and you get 0.5ppm of Ammonia and you really need 2ppm. Then add six more drops and you should have 2ppm.

 

All you need for fishless cycling is a jug of ammonia. Plants are an irrelevant factor. It does not matter if the tank is 5G or 500G, it is cycled the very same way. Dump in enough ammonia to maintain 2-3 PPM. And in a few weeks your tank will cycle.

 

thank you. <3

Unfortunately, I was under a very different impression from other threads I had made on the other aspects of this... and I now have five tiny fish I need a home for. I added "tetra aquasafe" dechlorinator to the water and am crossfeeding bits of water from the bowl they are in and the tank while carefully keeping the temperature equal.

Do I understand the nitrogen cycle and tank cycling properly in that the only real problem is when you DO have amounts of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in the water which are unsafe for the fish? If so, logic tells me that five sub 1 inch fish in a treated but non cycled 90 gallon tank will not be in much or any danger simply because of the huge volume of water and surface area compared to the fish, and the filter should slowly build a tiny bit of colony with just these few fish, and if I just add a few more tiny fish every week or month or so the cycle should be so low level that it is safe and not painful for them? Does this make sense? or no?...

 

I don't think extra filtration will help as much as simply cleaning the tank often with a gravel sweeper. They have huge poo even ehen they are small!

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