Setting up another tank - MTS is real!

devsi

First things first, if anybody has found a cure for MTS please share!

Over the weekend someone put a Juwel Lido 120 for £170. I REALLY didn't need another tank (currently have a 180L, 130L, 25L and a 60L QT) but it looked in really good condition, I find Juwel tanks really well made, and came with a lot of accessories which alone are probably worth over £100.

So, I sent it to the wife hoping she'd talk me out if it.

"It would be a steal at £150!" - great, now I'm invested and I have sign-off. I think some more and I'm still pretty convinced we don't need another one.

I message anyway. It's available. I decide to be cheeky and ask what the best deal they'd be able to do is.

"£130"

It's becoming really hard to walk away at this point, but I decide to do the sensible thing and say no. I tell the seller it's still more than we're looking to spend, being fully aware they wouldn't go any lower because that would be crazy!

Ten minutes later another message. I don't see it but my wife does (we share a Facebook account just for marketplace, we don't actually use Facebook for numerous reasons). She tells me what it says - someone is interested in the automatic feeder so we can have the rest for £100!

That's just mad. How could I say no!? But, we DON'T. NEED. ANOTHER. TANK.

So I offer £90 for the rest, knowing they'll say no.

They say yes. Oh no.

So, even though I don't need another tank, I pick it up, have to rush to my LFS before it closes, to pick up the filter sponges and some gravel.

The kids go to bed, we wash and add the gravel to the tank, fill it up with water, and dose Ammonia to 2ppm.

The cycle starts here....

We're not planning on buying any new fish; we're going to juggle things around and move the the Pleco, Apistos and Zebra Loaches from the 130 and the Lampeye from the 180 (over time, of course) to lower the bioload of all tanks rather than adding more fish.

Next step is to move half of our castle decoration from the 130 to the new tank to move across some of the beneficial bacteria, while ensuring the loaches/pleco still have somewhere to hide/play. When they've been moved, then we'll move the other half.
 

BigManAquatics

Oh MTS is very real....i have 3 empty tanks in my garage i am just itching to use to replace/add to my existing 4 running tanks...already have it figured how to arrange my house for Christmas, so a 5th tank would mess that up totally so that one will just wait...
 

emberopal

Wow what a steal! I fall into that same trap all the time, which is why I have like 10 fish tanks and a few more just laying around waiting for spots...
I'm not familiar with the Juwel Lido brand but they look like nice tanks too!
 

Fisch

Move into an apartment and all MTS issues will be resolved ;)
 

devsi

Oh MTS is very real....i have 3 empty tanks in my garage i am just itching to use to replace/add to my existing 4 running tanks...already have it figured how to arrange my house for Christmas, so a 5th tank would mess that up totally so that one will just wait...
Haha it's just so addictive! Luckily, with two young kids, I simply don't have the luxury of having a lot of time to do tank maintenance which limits me to how many tanks I'll have because I won't compromise the fish for my benefit.
Wow what a steal! I fall into that same trap all the time, which is why I have like 10 fish tanks and a few more just laying around waiting for spots...
I think I'm going to just have to stay off Facebook Marketplace for a while, I can't risk seeing another good deal haha.
I'm not familiar with the Juwel Lido brand but they look like nice tanks too!
Oh yeah, it was in incredible condition too. We bought the Juwel Rio 180 with the dark wood effect, and the Lido 120 we got has the same effect so fits in really well!
Move into an apartment and all MTS issues will be resolved
We're having a house extension soon, to give the kids a playroom. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered just turning it into a fish room....
 

BlackOsprey

Move into an apartment and all MTS issues will be resolved ;)
Says you. I've already got 4 tanks running in my apartment and I'll probably be adding more.
 

Fisch

Haha it's just so addictive! Luckily, with two young kids, I simply don't have the luxury of having a lot of time to do tank maintenance which limits me to how many tanks I'll have because I won't compromise the fish for my benefit.

I think I'm going to just have to stay off Facebook Marketplace for a while, I can't risk seeing another good deal haha.

Oh yeah, it was in incredible condition too. We bought the Juwel Rio 180 with the dark wood effect, and the Lido 120 we got has the same effect so fits in really well!

We're having a house extension soon, to give the kids a playroom. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered just turning it into a fish room....
That gives you the opportunity to just add a fishroom as well!!!
 

devsi

That gives you the opportunity to just add a fishroom as well!!!

The kids won’t mind, right?!
 

Bgreen82

Move into an apartment and all MTS issues will be resolved ;)
Ha! I live in an apartment and currently have 5 tanks. But always looking for more
 

devsi

Plans changed this morning; we were going to move over half the castle to help with cycling, but have decided against this as the Loaches and Pleco love playing in it.

For now, we've moved over some small decor items that won't be missed, and we'll move over half the castle when we move the Loaches; then the Pleco can still have half while we're prepping the new tank for him/her.

Still sad that I'm losing my Apistos to the new tank, but they do seem to get out-competed for food by the Tiger Barbs / Mollies so it's for the best.

Maybe I'll research Dwarf Cichlids more at a later date and see if there's a type that will be able to handle themselves with the Barbs/Mollies.
 

devsi

Cycle Update:

On the 24th October (2021) we dosed the Ammonia the 2ppm. We tested it today and the Ammonia is down to 1ppm, so the cycle has started.

We'll probably test the Nitrite later / in a couple of days, to see where we are with that.

Once we hit 0ppm Ammonia again, we'll dose back to 2ppm.
 

devsi

Cycle update

tested Nitrite and it was 0ppm, which I didn’t expect! Looks like I already have the bacteria that eats Ammonia and Nitrite!

That happened quickly!
 

mattgirl

Cycle update

tested Nitrite and it was 0ppm, which I didn’t expect! Looks like I already have the bacteria that eats Ammonia and Nitrite!

That happened quickly!
That is a possibility but it is also possible you don't have enough nitrites for the test to detect them yet. Hopefully your thoughts are correct though.
 

devsi

That is a possibility but it is also possible you don't have enough nitrites for the test to detect them yet. Hopefully your thoughts are correct though.

Oh really? I was assuming that 1ppm Ammonia (which has been processed) would result in xppm of Nitrite, where x is 1ppm or higher

Edit: did some research (no “official” source to cite, so take it with a pinch of salt):

It would appear that the break down is: 1 ppm ammonia --> 2.7 ppm nitrite --> 3.6 ppm nitrate

So, I believe that I can deduce from 2ppm Ammonia dropping to 1ppm Ammonia would have given me ~2.7ppm Nitrite, which is now 0ppm which would appear to mean the BB for Nitrite is present.

To reiterate, this isn’t from a official source, and mattgirls alternative theory is definitely valid. I just thought I’d share what I found out. I’ll be proceeding diligently.

I’ll continue researching to see if I can find an official source on that information.
 

mattgirl

I can only go by what happened the last time I cycled a tank from scratch and what happens in the tanks of the many folks I've helped. In my case it took right at 3 weeks for the nitrites in my tank to spike. Ammonia was being processed but it took time for nitrites to show up.

Lots of the folks I've helped have seen their ammonia going down long before nitrites appear. For some folks it takes the second or in some cases even the third addition of ammonia before nitrites appear.

I am not a scientist so I can't say I totally understand why this is so. I just know it is. I have to think there is a step in there that happens between the time we see ammonia going down and nitrites rising. I will readily admit that I don't know what is happening during that time.
 

devsi

Oh, how interesting! Thanks for sharing!
 

devsi

Update

I tested the Ammonia again yesterday and the result was 2ppm, so I believe my wife did it wrong last time and we got an incorrect result of 1ppm, which would explain the 0ppm Nitrite (because our Ammonia bacteria isn’t actually present and processing into Nitrite).
 

mattgirl

I know your other tanks are newly cycled but even so you could help this tank out if you could move some bacteria from the other tanks over to this one. Something like a plant, a piece of decor, a handful of gravel or a piece of media. Doing so should help speed up the cycling process.

If not that then a bottle of Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700 or ATM Colony should get things moving forward quickly. Of course if you aren't in a hurry no help is necessary. The tank will eventually cycle. I do highly recommend you add fish food along with the bottled ammonia. Should you decide to do so just put about a teaspoon of the flakes in a fine mesh media bag to prevent a mess in the tank. Add another teaspoon of fish food about every third day.

If you have an extra few minutes you may want to read this thread. It will show how a 240 gallon tank was successfully cycled in right at 3 weeks. Fishless cycling a 240 Gallon with ATM Colony Freshwater | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 509965 It will also back up what I said about taking a while for nitrites to show up although ammonia is going down.
 

devsi

I know your other tanks are newly cycled but even so you could help this tank out if you could move some bacteria from the other tanks over to this one. Something like a plant, a piece of decor, a handful of gravel or a piece of media. Doing so should help speed up the cycling process.
Thanks! I actually added a few bits of decor over from my established tanks, hoping it would kickstart it a bit. I just assumed that’s not how it works as I’ve not seen any progress yet.

Maybe I didn’t move enough? I moved three medium sized things in total, didn’t want to move too much in case I caused my other tanks to crash.
If not that then a bottle of Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700 or ATM Colony should get things moving forward quickly
I’ll give that a look, thank you!
I do highly recommend you add fish food along with the bottled ammonia. Should you decide to do so just put about a teaspoon of the flakes in a fine mesh media bag to prevent a mess in the tank. Add another teaspoon of fish food about every third day.
Oki doki :) thanks for the recommendation!

If you have an extra few minutes you may want to read this thread. It will show how a 240 gallon tank was successfully cycled in right at 3 weeks. Fishless cycling a 240 Gallon with ATM Colony Freshwater | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 509965 It will also back up what I said about taking a while for nitrites to show up although ammonia is going down.

Thanks :) I’ll give it a read!
 

mattgirl

Thanks! I actually added a few bits of decor over from my established tanks, hoping it would kickstart it a bit. I just assumed that’s not how it works as I’ve not seen any progress yet.

Maybe I didn’t move enough? I moved three medium sized things in total, didn’t want to move too much in case I caused my other tanks to crash.
I am sure you did move a bit of bacteria and even though it doesn't seem to be helping we know it isn't going to hurt. The little bit of bacteria you moved over will have added a bit of seed. It would take quite a bit though to seed a tank this size.

If your other tanks had been up and running longer there would have been a stronger colony of bacteria on the items. Since your other tanks are so new the colony isn't going to be as strong. I wouldn't remove very much from them. We don't want to take a chance on disrupting the cycle in them.
 

devsi

I am sure you did move a bit of bacteria and even though it doesn't seem to be helping we know it isn't going to hurt. The little bit of bacteria you moved over will have added a bit of seed. It would take quite a bit though to seed a tank this size.
Makes sense :) thanks! I was going to move over my center piece castle from the 130L, but decided against it because the Pleco loves to hide in it, the loaches like to play in it and I didn’t want to disrupt the cycle.

When this tank is cycled I’ll be moving half of it over, with the loaches, but leaving the other half, with the Pleco, until it’s well established and ready for the Pleco; assuming it’s still alive :)
If your other tanks had been up and running longer there would have been a stronger colony of bacteria on the items. Since your other tanks are so new the colony isn't going to be as strong. I wouldn't remove very much from them. We don't want to take a chance on disrupting the cycle in them.

Yeah, I don’t want the others to crash :) I’m in no rush to get this one cycled; do it right over do it quick :)

Thanks for the advice!


P.S. I’m so glad I got the QT you recommended a month or so back. It’s been in constant use for one reason or another (sick fish, new fish, breeding when empty etc)
 

devsi

Update

A couple of days ago (Tuesday 2nd), we added Seachem Stability to kickstart the cycle a bit.

Today, our ammonia is down to 0.5ppm and Nitrites are at 2ppm, so it's going well.

We'll probably wait for both Ammonia and Nitrite to hit 0ppm before dosing Ammonia again.
 

Thunder_o_b

MTS is a non fatal (unless your spouse is intolerant of the treatment) chronic disease.

The only known treatment is frequent infusions of cash. Sadly as time passes the condition requires ever increasing levels of this treatment.
 

86 ssinit

I once had a plan that did seem to work. I kept an empty 45g in my fish room. Whenever I saw a tank for sale I looked at it and resisted. Worked for a good while. But than I bought a 75g and a 125. Knowing it’s magic had stop working I sold it. :).
 

devsi

Update

We're finally ready! Dosed 2ppm ammonia, observed the ammonia/nitrite spike and go back to 0ppm in ~48 hours.

I know it's supposed to be 24 hours, but we've decided to add only a small number of small bioload fish with daily water parameter tests and, if required, water changes and Seachem Prime.

Yesterday we bought 7 Cardinal Tetras, tested this morning, and all parameters are looking good.

I'll update as we add more fish; will probably be another 7 Cardinals over the coming days.
 

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