Serpae tetra dying every few days

Welp, found a serpae tetra up at the top of the tank. Scooped him out to remove him and he panicked (still alive!) but obviously isn't well. I moved him to the medicated tank that I just dosed again with salt, Kanaplex, Paraguard, and methylene blue. So there are now 3 platy and 1 serpae tetra in the medicated tank. Those in the medicated tank are more active but the largest platy and the worst platy have damaged faces.

Checked on the other fish in large tank and no changes. The boesemani rainbows still have white lips but it's not progressing. Others who had white lips are looking better. However, I did spot one of my cory with white on the top of their head. It could be a sign of columnaris however it's also a cory who likes squeezing into small crevices so it could be scratched. I chose to remove my carbon once again and gave the large tank Kanaplex and salt.

So, I will follow the instructions and dose the medicated tank every day with Paraguard and check on their progress in 3 days (not sure the tetra will make it but I peer in on them daily). The large tank will get kanaplex dosed as instructed and I'll go from there.

 

I don't think the platy will make it. I've removed the heater today from the medicated tank (assuming that might be adding to the problems) and found the tetra dead this morning in there. Removed him and redosed Paraguard but the largest platy and the worst-off one look like their whole faces are just crumbling away. The better-off platy is doing only a little worse but still doesn't look well.

All those in the large tank are acting fine with still no signs of worse deterioration. Hoping things stay that way. The cory also looks fine other that the white patches but I'm thinking they just scraped themselves.

 

Welp. Had another serpae tetra die (small one in main tank but he was showing the same upward-angled swimming as previously purchased ones). The worst of platy probably won’t last the night. His whole face is white and he was swimming in cartwheels. The well off one is okay but I saw a white patch near his back tail fin. The large one is between the two health-wise. White face, lethargic, but doing alright.

Dosed main tank with 2nd dose of kanaplex and will do third (final) dose in two days as directed. Quarantine tank dosed again with ParaGuard and will have water change day after tomorrow because I’ll be out all day tomorrow.

No signs of worsening in main tank other than that one tetra.

 

Welp. Had another serpae tetra die (small one in main tank but he was showing the same upward-angled swimming as previously purchased ones). The worst of platy probably won’t last the night. His whole face is white and he was swimming in cartwheels. The well off one is okay but I saw a white patch near his back tail fin. The large one is between the two health-wise. White face, lethargic, but doing alright.

Dosed main tank with 2nd dose of kanaplex and will do third (final) dose in two days as directed. Quarantine tank dosed again with ParaGuard and will have water change day after tomorrow because I’ll be out all day tomorrow.

No signs of worsening in main tank other than that one tetra.

You're certainly going thru the wringer with your tanks. All I can offer at this point is to applaud persistence & hope for survivors. Hope your next step does the trick & you see a widespread return to health.

 

Tetras need to be in an acid tank, and they hate nitrates,fix those things and the Serpae's will be fine.

I'm just now catching up on this thread, but I added around 15 serpae tetras to my 40 gallon breeder about two years ago. As far as I can tell I've only lost one. My water is a steady 8.2 pH, with high gH and kH.

 

The better of the 3 platy passed this morning, which was surprising. Other one is still cartwheeling. Largest is lethargic with white face and possibly swollen eyes? Could just be the white around them throwing me off.

Large tank still doing well. Two boesmani are doing fine. White lips but that's it, as they have been last few days. Cory is the same (again, I think it's scratching on her, not anything else). All remaining tetra are okay. Swimming normally, eating, and chasing each other as serpae do.

One dose of kanaplex left for the large tank before I add the carbon back in the filter (Saturday I'll do that since that's water change day anyway). Quarantine tank I added ParaGuard today but I'll do a large water change tomorrow, let it sit with no meds for a day, then start dosing again. Though I don't think either of the platy left will make it.

Might just stop dosing altogether and see if anything changes for a bit. Kind of at a loss as to what to do for them, or if there's anything. Last time I had columnaris I took care of it within a week and only lost 2-3 fish. This time it's more destructive and very persistent.

 

The cartwheeling platy passed this morning, leaving just the platy-swordtail cross that rests on the bottom. Big water change on that tank and won't add any new meds at all. I figure if she's going to make it at this point, then she'll power through it but I doubt she'll make it much longer.

Large tank no changes. Added Kanaplex final dose today but everyone's fine and active.

 

The cartwheeling platy passed this morning, leaving just the platy-swordtail cross that rests on the bottom. Big water change on that tank and won't add any new meds at all. I figure if she's going to make it at this point, then she'll power through it but I doubt she'll make it much longer.

Large tank no changes. Added Kanaplex final dose today but everyone's fine and active.

I'm glad so many survived but that so many were lost too. You've gone to great lengths to save those you could. Hope nothing like it ever mars your fishkeeping journey again.

 

Did the big water change today since yesterday was busier than expected. Added paraguard and salt to medicated tank because I found yet another tetra in the big tank who was hiding and had white on him. Moved him to the medicated tank. All other fish in large tank are fine. Cory no long has white so I'm pretty convinced it was scratches.

 

Did the big water change today since yesterday was busier than expected. Added paraguard and salt to medicated tank because I found yet another tetra in the big tank who was hiding and had white on him. Moved him to the medicated tank. All other fish in large tank are fine. Cory no long has white so I'm pretty convinced it was scratches.

Sorry this is ongoing. Hope you were able to celebrate the holiday regardless.

 

Thanks. Holiday was nice.

The tetra I found yesterday was dead this morning. The platy is still alive somehow. And in a separate 10-gallon tank, I discovered a sunburst platy with white and possibly red on his head. Don’t know if he got scraped or if something else is going on (I swear I didn’t cross contaminate that tank but maybe I missed something?). I removed him, poured a bit of methylene blue on the injury and plopped him back into his tank. I already had a platy die in there a few days ago but thought it was unrelated. I’m going to be really annoyed if it’s not.

Large tank is the same. Everyone’s acting and looking fine. I think the other rainbows who had ever-so-slightly white lips are completely healed now though, which is good. I’m replacing the carbon in the filter tomorrow since it’s water change day.

Update: The injured platy in my 10-gallon passed away just now. Starting to think some cross-contamination happened (maybe when I moved a serpae tetra over temporarily weeks ago?) because that felt fast. He had white on the top of his head with red around it like he was injured (not quite like the white I've been seeing on the sick Columnaris fish (which has had 0 red at all). I dosed that tank with ParaGuard and added salt after I put methylene blue on him but either it is Columnaris or I just didn't notice the injury fast enough.

I'm going to check the parameters in all my tanks tomorrow before a water change to make sure nothing's happened there. Everything should be fine parameter wise but might as well check. Just a single ember tetra and one male sunburst platy in that 10-gallon tank now. Worse comes to worst (ie. the tetra and platy die) and I'll drain the tank, clean the filter, disinfect and start it over.

 

So! Parameters on all my tanks were pretty good. There was some very slight tint to my nitrite reading on my large tank but I added prime as I always do with my water changes (my tap has 0.25 ammonia anyway, so I always use prime and stability) and it was such a small amount that it doesn't come up on the chart. Carbon was readded to my filter Saturday morning and I haven't had any fish die since then.

All fish in the large tank are doing well. The two boesemani still have white lips but are active and eating and there's no progression of damage.

The only remaining platy cross has white on her head still and her eyes are clouded and almost bulging but there's nothing I can do to fix that other than wait and see. However! She was up and swimming today, which is progress! She's been laying on the bottom usually but was up at the top. I had some freeze-dried krill on hand (the usual flakes were in the other room) that I crushed up and sprinkled on the top and it looks like she ate it.

So either she's feeling better and starting to recover to the point of being active and eating again, or it's the opposite. Hoping it's the former. I would like for her to make a full recovery or at least be healthy and healed enough to go back into the main tank. Or any tank, really. Medicated tank gets another water change tomorrow. I'll leave it without any meds for a bit and see how she does.

 

So! Parameters on all my tanks were pretty good. There was some very slight tint to my nitrite reading on my large tank but I added prime as I always do with my water changes (my tap has 0.25 ammonia anyway, so I always use prime and stability) and it was such a small amount that it doesn't come up on the chart. Carbon was readded to my filter Saturday morning and I haven't had any fish die since then.

All fish in the large tank are doing well. The two boesemani still have white lips but are active and eating and there's no progression of damage.

The only remaining platy cross has white on her head still and her eyes are clouded and almost bulging but there's nothing I can do to fix that other than wait and see. However! She was up and swimming today, which is progress! She's been laying on the bottom usually but was up at the top. I had some freeze-dried krill on hand (the usual flakes were in the other room) that I crushed up and sprinkled on the top and it looks like she ate it.

So either she's feeling better and starting to recover to the point of being active and eating again, or it's the opposite. Hoping it's the former. I would like for her to make a full recovery or at least be healthy and healed enough to go back into the main tank. Or any tank, really. Medicated tank gets another water change tomorrow. I'll leave it without any meds for a bit and see how she does.

I've read over the thread but forgive me ... my brain has failed me this morning.

How many have you lost & how many remain at this point?

I went thru the meds & you've basically used everything, from salt & -fixes to ultimately kanaplex & if I read right - paraguard. Am I right that you seem to have seen the most survival success with Kanaplex - indicating bacterial infection over parasitic - or do you think the new fish essentially brought both?

I tend to review & try to sort out what my best practices were after I've treated so I can apply what I've learned another time. Do you think any one of the applied meds or actions was more helpful than another?

You've been amazingly persistent in saving these guys - medicating, hospital buckets, water changes .... & pure frustration. Hope it is indeed the last of the illness.

 

I've read over the thread but forgive me ... my brain has failed me this morning.

How many have you lost & how many remain at this point?

I went thru the meds & you've basically used everything, from salt & -fixes to ultimately kanaplex & if I read right - paraguard. Am I right that you seem to have seen the most survival success with Kanaplex - indicating bacterial infection over parasitic - or do you think the new fish essentially brought both?

I tend to review & try to sort out what my best practices were after I've treated so I can apply what I've learned another time. Do you think any one of the applied meds or actions was more helpful than another?

You've been amazingly persistent in saving these guys - medicating, hospital buckets, water changes .... & pure frustration. Hope it is indeed the last of the illness.

So, I started with about 6 serpae tetra (new introductions) dying over a week (one every few days). Then, I found a platy swimming near the top with white lips and treated under the assumption it was a mouth fungus using Melafix and Pimafix in the main 60-gallon tank for almost a week. Then, I found a second platy looking the same with about 3-4 of the rainbowfish with slightly white lips as well, though the platy were the worse. Added Indian Almond Leaves and did a 50% water change after I ran out of pimafix.

The pimafix helped the largest platy cross who had been unable to close her mouth, but the other two platy were worse. So, I did Kanaplex and Fungal Tablets in the 60-gallon tank (kanaplex every 2 days max of 3 doses, fungal tablets get a 25% water change after 4 days and another dose). After the 2nd dose of Kanaplex, I started doing salt baths with an air stone, heater, and erythromycin powder for 10-30min. Did the baths daily and once all Kanaplex and Tablets were done, I stopped the baths and medication, readded carbon to my filter, and left it for a day.

I then set up the medicated tank with methylene blue, salt, and Paraguard and moved the two bad off platy into that tank. Added the 3rd platy the following day. Had one more tetra die (7 dead now) and kept dosing medicated tank, removing the heaters in the tank. Had an 8th tetra die and dosed the main tank with Kanaplex as well because of that and because I saw white on a cory.

Better off platy died (9 dead fish) finished dosing main tank with Kanaplex, did water changes, and would leave medicated tank unmedicated for a day before redosing methylene blue, salt, and Paraguard again. Cartwheeling platy died (10 dead fish), found another dying tetra; who passed not long after moving him to medicated tank (11 dead). Had two platy in a separate 10-gallon die (one injured, one seemingly fine) but I had moved a sick tetra in that tank early on before I knew what happened. Could have cross-contaminated (so technically 13 dead fish if you include them).

And today, all fish in the 60-gallon are fine [8 rainbows, 4 cory, 3 oto, 7 serpae tetra (3 old, 4 newer), 8 neon tetra, 3 nerites] with minimal whiteness on 2 rainbowfish lips. The remaining 2 fish in the 10-gallon are fine. And the platy cross is more active, eating and swimming in the medicated tank though her face is still white and scratched up and her eyes are clouded and bulging.
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I think what helped the most (because I am convinced it was Columnaris that started as mouth rot) was cold temps, salt, Kanaplex, and low-stress environments. When the heaters were in the medicated tank, things got way worse. Removing the heaters left the tank a chilly 68F or lower, but survivable and the degradation of their face stopped once I did. The salt to me seemed to help as well because while I dosed Kanaplex repeatedly in both tanks, the platy in the medicated tank where I added salt is recovering the best. I couldn't dose salt in the main tank because of my cory. Then, by stopping the baths and making a medicated tank for the worst off, it was less stress on them which also helped. They needed a calm space I could medicate when I saw that there were worse-off ones and the rest in the 60-gallon were fine.

The methylene blue wasn't helpful this far into the process and I think the Paraguard was potentially either doing nothing or even making things worse (there's a warning to use it daily unless fish appear distressed, which concerned me). I'd run out of fungal tablets so I can't really say if they were super helpful but they certainly weren't making anything worse.

 

So, I started with about 6 serpae tetra (new introductions) dying over a week (one every few days). Then, I found a platy swimming near the top with white lips and treated under the assumption it was a mouth fungus using Melafix and Pimafix in the main 60-gallon tank for almost a week. Then, I found a second platy looking the same with about 3-4 of the rainbowfish with slightly white lips as well, though the platy were the worse. Added Indian Almond Leaves and did a 50% water change after I ran out of pimafix.

The pimafix helped the largest platy cross who had been unable to close her mouth, but the other two platy were worse. So, I did Kanaplex and Fungal Tablets in the 60-gallon tank (kanaplex every 2 days max of 3 doses, fungal tablets get a 25% water change after 4 days and another dose). After the 2nd dose of Kanaplex, I started doing salt baths with an air stone, heater, and erythromycin powder for 10-30min. Did the baths daily and once all Kanaplex and Tablets were done, I stopped the baths and medication, readded carbon to my filter, and left it for a day.

I then set up the medicated tank with methylene blue, salt, and Paraguard and moved the two bad off platy into that tank. Added the 3rd platy the following day. Had one more tetra die (7 dead now) and kept dosing medicated tank, removing the heaters in the tank. Had an 8th tetra die and dosed the main tank with Kanaplex as well because of that and because I saw white on a cory.

Better off platy died (9 dead fish) finished dosing main tank with Kanaplex, did water changes, and would leave medicated tank unmedicated for a day before redosing methylene blue, salt, and Paraguard again. Cartwheeling platy died (10 dead fish), found another dying tetra; who passed not long after moving him to medicated tank (11 dead). Had two platy in a separate 10-gallon die (one injured, one seemingly fine) but I had moved a sick tetra in that tank early on before I knew what happened. Could have cross-contaminated (so technically 13 dead fish if you include them).

And today, all fish in the 60-gallon are fine [8 rainbows, 4 cory, 3 oto, 7 serpae tetra (3 old, 4 newer), 8 neon tetra, 3 nerites] with minimal whiteness on 2 rainbowfish lips. The remaining 2 fish in the 10-gallon are fine. And the platy cross is more active, eating and swimming in the medicated tank though her face is still white and scratched up and her eyes are clouded and bulging.
~~~~
I think what helped the most (because I am convinced it was Columnaris that started as mouth rot) was cold temps, salt, Kanaplex, and low-stress environments. When the heaters were in the medicated tank, things got way worse. Removing the heaters left the tank a chilly 68F or lower, but survivable and the degradation of their face stopped once I did. The salt to me seemed to help as well because while I dosed Kanaplex repeatedly in both tanks, the platy in the medicated tank where I added salt is recovering the best. I couldn't dose salt in the main tank because of my cory. Then, by stopping the baths and making a medicated tank for the worst off, it was less stress on them which also helped. They needed a calm space I could medicate when I saw that there were worse-off ones and the rest in the 60-gallon were fine.

The methylene blue wasn't helpful this far into the process and I think the Paraguard was potentially either doing nothing or even making things worse (there's a warning to use it daily unless fish appear distressed, which concerned me). I'd run out of fungal tablets so I can't really say if they were super helpful but they certainly weren't making anything worse.

Thank you. A clear summation. I'm amazed you've gotten thru it. Hope you're able to consolidate your tanks to your mum's satisfaction now & have one vessel kept aside for hospitalizing. I'm sorry you've lost so many but impressed by your persistence. Best of luck moving forward!

 

Thank you. A clear summation. I'm amazed you've gotten thru it. Hope you're able to consolidate your tanks to your mum's satisfaction now & have one vessel kept aside for hospitalizing. I'm sorry you've lost so many but impressed by your persistence. Best of luck moving forward!

Thanks! It's taking some time to get the tanks cleared out anyway and I need to look into how to sell them off. I figure I will quarantine any new fish in one of the smaller tanks I have (maybe keep the tall 15 but take it off my mom's bookshelf?) or empty out the 5-gallon bucket I have and use that. I have leftover filters and heaters now that I've taken down 2 tanks. I can sell the filters and keep one of the heaters to quarantine if/when needed. It's just that she wants her furniture back and I need the money from selling the tanks.

And yeah, hopefully, the platy recovers fully or even mostly. I'm not sure how good her vision is (I should get a picture of her after one of the water changes when the water is less blue) but the fact that she was actively swimming around today is nice even if she does eventually pass at least she had some time where she felt better. I'll have to see if there's anything I can do about her current injuries to her face and head. Only thing I can think of is continuing the methylene blue and salt treatment (out of kanaplex again and if the main infection is gone it won't be much help) and I'm hesitant on the Paraguard (which also won't be much help at this point i think).

 

Thanks! It's taking some time to get the tanks cleared out anyway and I need to look into how to sell them off. I figure I will quarantine any new fish in one of the smaller tanks I have (maybe keep the tall 15 but take it off my mom's bookshelf?) or empty out the 5-gallon bucket I have and use that. I have leftover filters and heaters now that I've taken down 2 tanks. I can sell the filters and keep one of the heaters to quarantine if/when needed. It's just that she wants her furniture back and I need the money from selling the tanks.

And yeah, hopefully, the platy recovers fully or even mostly. I'm not sure how good her vision is (I should get a picture of her after one of the water changes when the water is less blue) but the fact that she was actively swimming around today is nice even if she does eventually pass at least she had some time where she felt better. I'll have to see if there's anything I can do about her current injuries to her face and head. Only thing I can think of is continuing the methylene blue and salt treatment (out of kanaplex again and if the main infection is gone it won't be much help) and I'm hesitant on the Paraguard (which also won't be much help at this point i think).

Agreed about the paraguard not being useful now. The salt might if she hasn't had long treatment with it already. Thinking it might be beyond the mild properties of methylene blue tho. If she survives this, it's likely she'll experience some healing of her face but be scarred. As long as she can breathe & eat I can't see you being worried about that after all the work you've put in.

As for the tanks & extra equipment - of course you have to sell them. The 5 gal bucket is working reasonably well for a hospital tank right? I keep no bigger than 6g for hospitalizations/quarantine (for goldies) & since I keep small fish for pleasure, 2.5 & 1.5 g tubs for them. You may not get much for what you sell, but in this hobby, every bit counts. Since you're in the states, the buy, swap, sell page here on fishlore may be a good place to sell or kijiji, FB mrktplace, ....

 

I got pictures of the last platy (swordtail cross) today after a 75-90% water change in the medicated tank. Added just salt for now. She cannot see from what I saw when I was watching her swim and move around while I was doing the water change. But you can see the damage done to her eyes.

Figure the white damage went up from her mouth, past her eyes, and about halfway up her head and she was unable to close her mouth. Now, the white has now receded and she can open and close her mouth but her eyes are still not okay at all and there is some remaining damage to the top of her head.

Debating whether to turn the heater back on. I’m concerned that it will make things worse should the columnaris not be fully out of her system yet.

 

I checked on the one platy cross in the medicated tank and she looks better but isn’t as active. She swims around when I touch the top of the water but is resting on the bottom. I’m assuming that at this point she’s doing that because she can’t see. The eye swelling looks like it might have gone down a little. I added methylene blue two days ago and dropped some sinking pellets in the tank for her to nibble on since she’s seemingly blind now.

I’ll do a water change again tomorrow and see how she is. Heater had been back on for almost a week so I think she’s conquered the worst of the columnaris since I’m not seeing the whiteness returning even with the heated water. I’m going to stop all medication tomorrow and see how she does. No methylene blue, no Paraguard, and no salt. If there’s no changes by the end of the week I might move her into the smaller 10-gallon with the remaining sunburst platy and single ember tetra. I think she should be safe to be with other fish at that point but won’t put her in the 60-gallon just in case.

 

Went ahead and drained the medicated tank today so I can finish breaking it down and sell it. Moved the platy cross into the 10-gallon with the 1 ember tetra and 1 sunburst platy.

She is completely blind and depending on how she does in there, I might move here to a smaller 3-gallon I have. It's empty and I figured I could put some sand in the bottom with a couple of rounded stones and maybe some java ferns in the corners. make it more of a mini plant grow-out tank while leaving a majority of it empty and "soft" so I can put her in there without her bumping into things or scratching herself.

The 10-gallon she's currently in has dragon stone in it and has only a little bottom area where she can rest. I find that while she's active and swimming well, she sticks to the bottom where she can feel where she's going. The large sword in the tank gets her confused so I will probably move her in the next few days. From what I'm seeing though, she's gotten over the columnaris and just has to deal with the damage left behind which is her two white eyes that have been blinded and some light scratching on her head. I'll get pictures tomorrow.

 

Here she is in the 10-gallon. I’m going to look into setting up the smaller 3 gallon for her so she’s somewhere less likely to get hurt while she’s blind. But both eyes are like that and there’s mild scraping on her head above her mouth. Other than that she’s seemingly fine. Will need to work out how to feed her as well.

 

I am going to post this and take the backlash for the post. But when ever there is a situation like the one above occurs the common factor is high Nitrates. In my opinion it is important to keep your Nitrates at or as close to zero as possible.

 

Here she is in the 10-gallon. I’m going to look into setting up the smaller 3 gallon for her so she’s somewhere less likely to get hurt while she’s blind. But both eyes are like that and there’s mild scraping on her head above her mouth. Other than that she’s seemingly fine. Will need to work out how to feed her as well.

You've worked very hard in a difficult situation bored411. I'm glad this one was saved & hope despite the blindness & scrapes, she survives & thrives.

 

I am going to post this and take the backlash for the post. But when ever there is a situation like the one above occurs the common factor is high Nitrates. In my opinion it is important to keep your Nitrates at or as close to zero as possible.

And I've already said this before, I've not had any issue with my nitrates. The nitrates I get are from the liquid plant fertilizer I add in. If nitrates were the problem, I'd have this issue in all my tanks but I've only had it in the 60-gallon which has lower nitrates than some of my other tanks.

It was columnaris that was the cause which came from the serpae tetra that weren't properly quarantined for long enough before I added them. If nitrates were the problem, the tank would still be having issues because the nitrate levels haven't changed and yet everyone is fine. Think what you want, but nitrates aren't my issue.