Septicemia In My Betta Fish, Treated, No Improvement. ):

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My betta fish has a blood infection called bacterial septicemia, and I have treated him with medications, done several water changes and nothing has helped, it's just gotten worse and now he is fin nipping. I don't know what to do now. Everything has gone downhill. ): He can't swim right. He stays at the surface all day and tries not to even move. He's pale, clamped fins and skinny. I just feel so bad since he is so miserable. Here's a picture:
IMG_0569.jpg
 
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jenag145 said:
How do you know if he has septicemia?
Plenty or reasarch, people on here have said that, and he has blood streaks on his body and fins, just like the symptoms, and he is sick and can't swim right, so he does have it.
 

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What meds did you use? How long?
I would also recommend doing daily 25-50% water changes in his tank. This will help him much more than any drug- not saying the medication is not also vital with septicemia- but the freshwater will help him regain his immunity to fight off illness.
 
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Discusluv said:
What meds did you use? How long?
I would also recommend doing daily 25-50% water changes in his tank. This will help him much more than any drug- not saying the medication is not also vital with septicemia- but the freshwater will help him regain his immunity to fight off illness.
I use API Furan-2. I will try more water changes aswell.
 
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Discusluv said:
How many days treating with Furan2?
I did the full dose, which was 4 or 5 days. He didn't improve at all, but the strange thing is he still happily eats.
 

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Planted Aquatics said:
I did the full dose, which was 4 or 5 days. He didn't improve at all, but the strange thing is he still happily eats.
Sometimes nitrafurizone is enough to treat septicemia, but most of the time it is not.
I would suggest, at this point, treating with either kanamycin sulfate or triple sulfa to give a broader spectrum medication against the bacteria.
It is very good sign that he is still eating. You can find kanamycin in Seachem Kanaplex and Triple Sulfa is commonly found at most Petsmarts and Petco's.
It is very important to do the 25-50% water change before each dose, to get as much organics out of the water as possible and to aid the fish in rebuilding its immunity.
 
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Discusluv said:
Sometimes nitrafurizone is enough to treat septicemia, but most of the time it is not.
I would suggest, at this point, treating with either kanamycin sulfate or triple sulfa to give a broader spectrum medication against the bacteria.
It is very good sign that he is still eating. You can find kanamycin in Seachem Kanaplex and Triple Sulfa is commonly found at most Petsmarts and Petco's.
It is very important to do the 25-50% water change before each dose, to get as much organics out of the water as possible and to aid the fish in rebuilding its immunity.
You know, I'm not going to buy more meds if I already have one that should be working :/
 

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Planted Aquatics said:
You know, I'm not going to buy more meds if I already have one that should be working :/
Then what is your question? What would you like help with?
 

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Planted Aquatics said:
You know, I'm not going to buy more meds if I already have one that should be working :/
The problem here is you bought nitrafurizone which isn't as effective/strong as kanamycin.

What is your question if your not willing to buy more meds? Where you looking for answers such as euthanize? He isn't in a situation just yet to end it all , with some large daily water changes and some seachem kanaplex your betta should make a big improvement. If your tired of watching your betta suffer then get the meds needed in order to help him/her out.
 
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JesseMoreira06 said:
The problem here is you bought nitrafurizone which isn't as effective/strong as kanamycin.

What is your question if your not willing to buy more meds? Where you looking for answers such as euthanize? He isn't in a situation just yet to end it all , with some large daily water changes and some seachem kanaplex your betta should make a big improvement. If your tired of watching your betta suffer then get the meds needed in order to help him/her out.
Well if I'm not getting any more meds, should I just let him go, or wait?
 

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If I can just chime in here. I wouldn't recommend euthanasia for your betta as I don't think he's at that point. If you don't want to buy any more medication that's fine, that's your choice. To be honest I wouldn't go out and buy more medication anyways just yet, especially something as strong and powerful as kanamycin. I'm sure I'll get disagreed with, but In my opinion he is way too weak to take anything else, at this point the medication is more likely to kill him than the septicemia. For the next few days I'd do daily 75% water changes and offer a high quality food. After a few days he will probably be recovered enough to take another full round of medication and not suffer extreme consequences. I hope this helps, he is gorg BTW.
 
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Tiffany_e97 said:
If I can just chime in here. I wouldn't recommend euthanasia for your betta as I don't think he's at that point. If you don't want to buy any more medication that's fine, that's your choice. To be honest I wouldn't go out and buy more medication anyways just yet, especially something as strong and powerful as kanamycin. I'm sure I'll get disagreed with, but In my opinion he is way too weak to take anything else, at this point the medication is more likely to kill him than the septicemia. For the next few days I'd do daily 75% water changes and offer a high quality food. After a few days he will probably be recovered enough to take another full round of medication and not suffer extreme consequences. I hope this helps, he is gorg BTW.
Thanks. I agree with you, especially a 11$ product that I spent my money on trying to cure him, I'm not taking chances for any more meds. I will stick to your method, and here's a picture of him before he got sick ):
IMG_0368.jpg
IMG_0369.jpg
 

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Tiffany_e97 said:
If I can just chime in here. I wouldn't recommend euthanasia for your betta as I don't think he's at that point. If you don't want to buy any more medication that's fine, that's your choice. To be honest I wouldn't go out and buy more medication anyways just yet, especially something as strong and powerful as kanamycin. I'm sure I'll get disagreed with, but In my opinion he is way too weak to take anything else, at this point the medication is more likely to kill him than the septicemia. For the next few days I'd do daily 75% water changes and offer a high quality food. After a few days he will probably be recovered enough to take another full round of medication and not suffer extreme consequences. I hope this helps, he is gorg BTW.
Entirely disagree, actually. When fish get septicemia, the given treatment that is generally prescribed is the combination of nitrafurizone/kanamycin. Not one or the other. They work synergisticly. It is not "extreme" in its application to this case.
To assume that the kanamycin will have more likelihood to "kill" the fish than the septicemia itself is, in fact, the "extreme" opinion.
Good food and daily water changes are for fin rot, not septicemia.
 
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Discusluv said:
Entirely disagree, actually. When fish get septicemia, the given treatment that is generally prescribed is the combination of nitrafurizone/kanamycin. Not one or the other. They work synergisticly. It is not "extreme" in its application to this case.
To assume that the kanamycin will have more likelihood to "kill" the fish than the septicemia itself is, in fact, the "extreme" opinion.
Good food and daily water changes are for fin rot, not septicemia.
I'm not planning on daily, but you said to do frequent water changes, didn't you?
 

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Discusluv said:
Entirely disagree, actually. When fish get septicemia, the given treatment that is generally prescribed is the combination of nitrafurizone/kanamycin. Not one or the other. They work synergisticly. It is not "extreme" in its application to this case.
To assume that the kanamycin will have more likelihood to "kill" the fish than the septicemia itself is, in fact, the "extreme" opinion.
Good food and daily water changes are for fin rot, not septicemia.
That's fair to say. I personally don't like to dose fish back to back on medications, many aquaurists have no issue with it however. I just find it can have ill effects on the fish depending on a number of factors. Good food and daily water changes are something I recommend to almost anybody as it can boost the fishes natural immunity and at the very least provide them with an ammonia free environment. Doing this will definitely not cure the fish of septicemia by any means, but it can aid in treatment. I also tried to take into consideration the fact that the OP is not willing to buy any more medications than the ones they already have. With this fact in mind the route I suggested to take is rest the fish for a few days, try and get its immunity back up to certain level then try another round of medication.
 

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Tiffany_e97 said:
If I can just chime in here. I wouldn't recommend euthanasia for your betta as I don't think he's at that point. If you don't want to buy any more medication that's fine, that's your choice. To be honest I wouldn't go out and buy more medication anyways just yet, especially something as strong and powerful as kanamycin. I'm sure I'll get disagreed with, but In my opinion he is way too weak to take anything else, at this point the medication is more likely to kill him than the septicemia. For the next few days I'd do daily 75% water changes and offer a high quality food. After a few days he will probably be recovered enough to take another full round of medication and not suffer extreme consequences. I hope this helps, he is gorg BTW.
Not only do I strongly disagree, I'd take it up a notch and say you're spreading misinformation. OP doesn't want to spend money on meds - which is fine - but since this forum is very searchable and if someone comes to this thread who wants to spend money to cure the fish might read your post and be scared away from proper treatment.

Kana by itself is the perscribed medication for septesemia, which means blood poisoning. The blood in that fish is a toxic playground for all sorts of action. Kana is a strong antibiotic that will take care of the symptoms that are killing the fish, which en masse is just a whole collection of assorted general bacteria. Furan will take care of the hard to kill gram positive and negative bacteria that is resistant to kana.

What happened here is that furan by itself wasn't strong enough to take care of all the hard to kill ones, while the general septicemia bacteria are still reigning free. That's why both are recommended.

The fish is not too sick to take a med that should be taken together with original treatment. The fish is too sick because its not getting treatment.

@op - don't euthanize before you at least do a second round of meds. If the fish begins to waste away, you may try just about everything you currently have in the off chance that will help, but without the second component of the med... I'm not sure what you want us to do since I don't understand your question.
 

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tunafax said:
Not only do I strongly disagree, I'd take it up a notch and say you're spreading misinformation. OP doesn't want to spend money on meds - which is fine - but since this forum is very searchable and if someone comes to this thread who wants to spend money to cure the fish might read your post and be scared away from proper treatment.

Kana by itself is the perscribed medication for septesemia, which means blood poisoning. The blood in that fish is a toxic playground for all sorts of action. Kana is a strong antibiotic that will take care of the symptoms that are killing the fish, which en masse is just a whole collection of assorted general bacteria. Furan will take care of the hard to kill gram positive and negative bacteria that is resistant to kana.

What happened here is that furan by itself wasn't strong enough to take care of all the hard to kill ones, while the general septicemia bacteria are still reigning free. That's why both are recommended.

The fish is not too sick to take a med that should be taken together with original treatment. The fish is too sick because its not getting treatment.

@op - don't euthanize before you at least do a second round of meds. If the fish begins to waste away, you may try just about everything you currently have in the off chance that will help, but without the second component of the med... I'm not sure what you want us to do since I don't understand your question.
Totally get where you're coming from and I'm glad you commented! Definitely not trying to scare anybody away from proper treatment, I apologize if that's how it came off to anybody! I agree with your above treatment on how to fight septicemia 100%, using the kanamycin and furan together. My main issue with the kanamycin wasn't the medicine itself, it was the timing. The kanamycin wasn't paired with the furan. Since the OP completed the furan treatment the betta has gotten worse, now essentially is only floating on top of the water. You are absolutely correct in saying that the "missing link" in treatment is kanamycin. The area where I feel a difference in opinions is present is the effects of medication. Kanamycin will no doubt effectively treat septicemia, lets get that 100% cleared up, but it will also kill off any good bacteria in the fish. If both medications were paired together originally it would be a totally different story, unfortunately that's not the case. Adding kanamycin at this very moment to the tank would treat septicemia, but it would also make the fish fairly weak by decreasing their immune system and removing good bacteria. If you were in this persons shoes you'd immediately treat with kana, while I would try to get the natural immunity back up a little and then treat. At the end of the day everyone has a different way of going about things and it's up to the OP to take all of this info with a grain of salt. We've all given him/her different treatment options to choose from and I have no doubt they will do what they feel is the appropriate route for there Betta Take care!
 
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Tiffany_e97 said:
Totally get where you're coming from and I'm glad you commented! Definitely not trying to scare anybody away from proper treatment, I apologize if that's how it came off to anybody! I agree with your above treatment on how to fight septicemia 100%, using the kanamycin and furan together. My main issue with the kanamycin wasn't the medicine itself, it was the timing. The kanamycin wasn't paired with the furan. Since the OP completed the furan treatment the betta has gotten worse, now essentially is only floating on top of the water. You are absolutely correct in saying that the "missing link" in treatment is kanamycin. The area where I feel a difference in opinions is present is the effects of medication. Kanamycin will no doubt effectively treat septicemia, lets get that 100% cleared up, but it will also kill off any good bacteria in the fish. If both medications were paired together originally it would be a totally different story, unfortunately that's not the case. Adding kanamycin at this very moment to the tank would treat septicemia, but it would also make the fish fairly weak by decreasing their immune system and removing good bacteria. If you were in this persons shoes you'd immediately treat with kana, while I would try to get the natural immunity back up a little and then treat. At the end of the day everyone has a different way of going about things and it's up to the OP to take all of this info with a grain of salt. We've all given him/her different treatment options to choose from and I have no doubt they will do what they feel is the appropriate route for there Betta Take care!
Nicely said. But one thing: If my betta passes away from this disease, could it be in any way spreadable/contagious?
 

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HEMORHAGIC SEPTICEMIA Fish Help/Disease.

I think these 2 sources can help you
 

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Planted Aquatics said:
Well if I'm not getting any more meds, should I just let him go, or wait?
I wouldn't but that's just me , I had a fancy goldfish come down with dropsy pine come stage many were telling me to euthanize it I didn't listen and with the extreme help of Discusluv who is trying to give you help currently , my Goldfish survived , did it cost me money sure did , my fish cost me 10$ about 9 months ago and to cure dropsy it cost me roughly 50$ but guess what my Fancy goldfish is still here with me today and that's all that matters In the end and btw I'm not rich or anything, I just won't let anything just die because I don't want or feel like treating it. Any animal can eventually come with problems and if who ever decided to purchase it , it's their responsibility as the care giver to do whatevers nessacery for their well being.
 
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JesseMoreira06 said:
I wouldn't but that's just me , I had a fancy goldfish come down with dropsy pine come stage many were telling me to euthanize it I didn't listen and with the extreme help of Discusluv who is trying to give you help currently , my Goldfish survived , did it cost me money sure did , my fish cost me 10$ about 9 months ago and to cure dropsy it cost me roughly 50$ but guess what my Fancy goldfish is still here with me today and that's all that matters In the end and btw I'm not rich or anything, I just won't let anything just die because I don't want or feel like treating it. Any animal can eventually come with problems and if who ever decided to purchase it , it's their responsibility as the care giver to do whatevers nessacery for their well being.
Update: Idk if this is fin nipping, or if it's part of the infection, but if it is nipping, it is really bad.
IMG_0571.jpg
 
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I'm starting to lose hope ): he's not active, fins are shredded, can't swim right even at the top, a lot of water changes, meds, and nothing has happened. Also, if he passes, will it pass on to the next betta that will be in there?
 

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SIP poor guy, in advance. Illnesses like that don't just cure themselves and go away.

You will have to gut and clean the tank... though I would be hesitant in getting another animal if I don't intend to purchase items for it's care should something go wrong again.
 
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tunafax said:
SIP poor guy, in advance. Illnesses like that don't just cure themselves and go away.

You will have to gut and clean the tank... though I would be hesitant in getting another animal if I don't intend to purchase items for it's care should something go wrong again.
I have purchased items for him, a 11$ med. I would buy another med, but I don't want to risk it. Would I clean the filter and gravel as well?
 

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Planted Aquatics said:
I'm starting to lose hope ): he's not active, fins are shredded, can't swim right even at the top, a lot of water changes, meds, and nothing has happened. Also, if he passes, will it pass on to the next betta that will be in there?
you already lost hope from the moment you posted this thread (I'm not trying to be rude) but it's the truth , I honestly think you posted this thread looking for someone to tell you to euthanize your betta , but none hasn't, and I won't be the one because its just isn't right especially not in your betta situation.

I'm glad you bought a 11$ med , the problem was it wasn't strong enough so now if you want your Betta to do better you'll have to buy another 11$ med but the RIGHT one, if not then I can't help you out any further.

I still don't get the question of the thread from the beginning? didnt you ask what should I do , and many have said you need this medication ect.. you said you don't want no more meds , then idk what your looking for...

Another med isn't risking anything , it's going to benefit him. Not doing anything is risking.

BTW sorry if I'm coming off as rude.
 
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JesseMoreira06 said:
you already lost hope from the moment you posted this thread (I'm not trying to be rude) but it's the truth , I honestly think you posted this thread looking for someone to tell you to euthanize your betta , but none hasn't, and I won't be the one because its just isn't right especially not in your betta situation.

I'm glad you bought a 11$ med , the problem was it wasn't strong enough so now if you want your Betta to do better you'll have to buy another 11$ med but the RIGHT one, if not then I can't help you out any further.

I still don't get the question of the thread from the beginning? didnt you ask what should I do , and many have said you need this medication ect.. you said you don't want no more meds , then idk what your looking for...

Another med isn't risking anything , it's going to benefit him. Not doing anything is risking.

BTW sorry if I'm coming off as rude.
I don't want to euthanize him, why would I want to do that? I'll try to use that med.
 

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Thank you JesseMoreira06

I mean I would normally be understanding about not being able to afford medication because you can't pay rent with fish meds. I've been in that situation and it's heartbreaking.

But that's just not the case here. OP is already talking about getting another fish that will cost more than the med your current fish needed to live. Like......

I mean I feel bad for the fish. Not sure what else to say. We can't help you, and we can't offer sympathy or comforting words in this situation. Sorry your fish is dying I guess.
 
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tunafax said:
Thank you JesseMoreira06

I mean I would normally be understanding about not being able to afford medication because you can't pay rent with fish meds. I've been in that situation and it's heartbreaking.

But that's just not the case here. OP is already talking about getting another fish that will cost more than the med your current fish needed to live. Like......

I mean I feel bad for the fish. Not sure what else to say. We can't help you, and we can't offer sympathy or comforting words in this situation. Sorry your fish is dying I guess.
I'm not getting another fish anytime soon, I was just wondering in the future, would it harm other fish ok? I am going to try the med, I guess. Kanamycin?
 

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Good. You will need to rinse the gravel. I would clean the filter and restart the cycle but that's just me being cautious.

You can try. It will be kanamacyn/Kanaplex. With so much time wasted it would depend on the fish. How is he doing? Eating anything other than his tail? Swimming or sitting on the bottom?
 
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tunafax said:
Good. You will need to rinse the gravel. I would clean the filter and restart the cycle but that's just me being cautious.

You can try. It will be kanamacyn/Kanaplex. With so much time wasted it would depend on the fish. How is he doing? Eating anything other than his tail? Swimming or sitting on the bottom?
He's not doing real well, I just finished the other dose of meds and no improvement, he's just pale. No, actually he can't sit at the bottom. I don't know how, but it contributed to buoyancy problems, so he stays at the top all day, and kind of swims around. He has an appetite, I guess.
 
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If he does end up passing, ): Would I bleach everything, or just rinse it off well? If I did, would the planted gravel's nutrients die off, and would it harm the plants and driftwood?
 

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If he's eating, he's still fighting.

I wouldn't bleach. I would use 1 part vinegar to 5 parts water on non porous surfaces, and chlorinated tap water for the rest.

If you have plants, yeah that would be harmful. Hm.

Maybe you might as well look into how you can bomb the tank without harming the plants, maybe post a thread on that topic. Unfortunately I'm not a good source for plant care.
 
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tunafax said:
If he's eating, he's still fighting.

I wouldn't bleach. I would use 1 part vinegar to 5 parts water on non porous surfaces, and chlorinated tap water for the rest.

If you have plants, yeah that would be harmful. Hm.

Maybe you might as well look into how you can bomb the tank without harming the plants, maybe post a thread on that topic. Unfortunately I'm not a good source for plant care.
Well I have heard of bleach dipping the plants, so that might work.
 
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So I ordered Seachem Kanaplex and a floating betta log for him (so he has a place to hide on the surface since he can't swim down) two days ago. It should get here tomorrow, he is still eating just not very active.
 
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Planted Aquatics said:
So I ordered Seachem Kanaplex and a floating betta log for him (so he has a place to hide on the surface since he can't swim down) two days ago. It should get here tomorrow, he is still eating just not very active.
Also I ordered it online because I went to PetSmart, didn't have it there, I went to Walmart, not there, I went to my LFS, not there, so I ordered it on Amazon, lol.
 

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