Septicaemia Orandas?

Ok, sounds good. PraziPro is a liquid form of praziquatel. If PraziPro doesn't work against flukes, praziquatel won't either. Just follow the directions for the fluke solve exactly.

Did you find anything that is effective against flukes if PrazI has mixed reviews? It is sometimes mixed with Metronidazole, like in General Cure, but you have already treated with Metronidazole? Can't remember.

I know I said it a thousand times, but be careful using antibiotics.

Edit Fluke solve doesn't seem to have other medicinal ingredients I think it's a good option for Forrest. Poor dude.

 

Ok, sounds good. PraziPro is a liquid form of praziquatel. If PraziPro doesn't work against flukes, praziquatel won't either. Just follow the directions for the fluke solve exactly.

Did you find anything that is effective against flukes if PrazI has mixed reviews? It is sometimes mixed with Metronidazole, like in General Cure, but you have already treated with Metronidazole? Can't remember.

I know I said it a thousand times, but be careful using antibiotics.

Edit Fluke solve doesn't seem to have other medicinal ingredients I think it's a good option for Forrest. Poor dude.

PrazI has good reviews, the paraguard is more mixed. Some say it works against flukes, some say to go for copper based meds or prazi.

PrazI will work against internal parasites, paraguard won't.

I read Metroplex plex could be effective against internal parasites so I gave Forrest a dose on Monday along with kanaplex to target any internal bacterial infections like pseudomonas etc that could be causing the sbd.

I really hate dosing antibiotics and am trying not overmedicate. Whatever he has is super resistant though. He's hanging on though



If I dose the Prazi, It'll just be the PrazI and nothing else, unless I can be the sure Metroplex etc is compatible
Will do wc before dosing it too.

 

Fawkes21 that SBD issue may never go away and just get worse, I’ve had a few Ranchus in the same condition have you tried gel food to aid his digestion?

Also the white fur things you describe look like areas that at one point get exposed to air by him floating at the top and the overproduction of mucus

 

Fawkes21 that SBD issue may never go away and just get worse, I’ve had a few Ranchus in the same condition have you tried gel food to aid his digestion?

Also the white fur things you describe look like areas that at one point get exposed to air by him floating at the top and the overproduction of mucus

Yea he's always had boyuancy problems. Fed him repashy green in the past.

I also managed to make a functioning boyuancy harness but he wiggled out of it. Needs some modifications lol

My camera doesn't render the white fur things too well. They don't have a mucousy look to them. Look like tiny straight strands/splinters that form these milky velvet like patches.

He shimmies and sometimes 'chews' furiously. Coupled with the concave belly it makes me it's some kind of fluke but I admit I haven't seen anything like it.

Did you treat your ranchus with anything other than gel food?

Thanks for your advice

 

I think salt and M Green should work just fine as a medicated bath for goldfish, they are suffering from some sort of parasite, and you need to get their natural slime coat to do its job like its suppose to.
Other than that it seems youve done all you can, just in the future try medicated feed and baths for parasite meds, don't ruin the main tank water.

 

Yea he's always had boyuancy problems. Fed him repashy green in the past.

I also managed to make a functioning boyuancy harness but he wiggled out of it. Needs some modifications lol

My camera doesn't render the white fur things too well. They don't have a mucousy look to them. Look like tiny straight strands/splinters that form these milky velvet like patches.

He shimmies and sometimes 'chews' furiously. Coupled with the concave belly it makes me it's some kind of fluke but I admit I haven't seen anything like it.

Did you treat your ranchus with anything other than gel food?

Thanks for your advice

If you’re leaning toward the buoyancy issue being related to disease, research hexameta or hole in the head disease. This is caused by internal flagellates.

 

Well, I have some sad news.

Unfortunately Forrest passed away tonight.

Not the outcome I wanted but at least he's no longer suffering.

As I was inspecting him I noticed these tiny thin white/transparent worms squirming around on him. So I think cod can be attributed to some type of external/internal parasite?

Hopefully this thread can of some use to others

Thanks to everyone for their advice and support, much appreciated

 

Well my ranchu with dropsy recovered and his pineconing totally disappeared and he was back to normal. I'm keeping at eye on him but I've put him back in the 90g for now.

My ryukin started harassing my ladies so I put the divider back up but apart from that everything in the 90g is back to normal

Only my fish Forrest is still sick

Did 3 days of the mblue and it cleared up all the ich and costia

After mblue he went belly up and has been for 7 days though he does right himself and swim. He's always had swimming issues but never this bad

Fed pea, fasted him, dosed epsom and saw no change.

One round of kanaplex and furan-2 also yielded no results.

I noticed his poo was white, thin and mucousy which makes me think its something internal.

Gave him break from meds and am dosing kanaplex and Metroplex and paraguard.

Hard to feed, he spits most food out.

His belly is slightly concave and his fins are split and frayed.

He's also covered in these tiny white, hair/fur like strands that give him a milky, velvety appearance. Wen, fins, tail, body.
I have no idea what they are!

I started a thread about his sbd and those weird white fur things on him. Only answer I got was that it could be dropsy which it isn't. I'll see about making a second one

Thanks for all your advice!



View attachment 496338View attachment 496339

tiny worms of some sort?

 

Well, I have some sad news.

Unfortunately Forrest passed away tonight.

Not the outcome I wanted but at least he's no longer suffering.

As I was inspecting him I noticed these tiny thin white/transparent worms squirming around on him. So I think cod can be attributed to some type of external/internal parasite?

Hopefully this thread can of some use to others

Thanks to everyone for their advice and support, much appreciated

I’m so sorry fawkes we usually bury our fish in our potted plants or garden. I usually carve a rock with their name on it and place it over the burial area.

 

I’m so sorry fawkes we usually bury our fish in our potted plants or garden. I usually carve a rock with their name on it and place it over the burial area.

I buried him in my garden and put some shells on top.

It's hard looking at his empty 20 gallon tank but I think I'll sterilise it then add some pea puffers or something.

I will contact the vendor though. I'm wondering if he didn't come to me sick. I'll see if I can get to the bottom of those strange worms things.

Thanks for again for all your help

 

I'm so so sorry Fawkes You really did all you could. I'm very happy and impressed all your other fish are doing well now. We may never know exactly what was troubling him. Rest in peace Forrest.

 

I'm so so sorry Fawkes You really did all you could. I'm very happy and impressed all your other fish are doing well now. We may never know exactly what was troubling him. Rest in peace Forrest.

Thank you.

Yes, at least the others are ok!


I think you're right. He had problems from the beginning. I suspect parasites of some sort but can't say for certain.

I'll contact the vendor and see if they can shed some light. Will update if I find out anything. Could be useful for others

 

Yeah i'm still really wary of that vendor, not trying to cause trouble, but these fish you were sent caused you a lot of trouble!

 

Yeah i'm still really wary of that vendor, not trying to cause trouble, but these fish you were sent caused you a lot of trouble!

Yes they did. Forrest was an expensive fish too.


Added to that the cost of the medication I had to get from America, separate filters, heaters needed for the 20 gallon etc it was all quite pricey! Plus emotionally as well.

I'm asking other fish stores if they have some nice orandas available and am staying away from that vendor for now.

Just need to decide what to add to my 20 gallon now after I've sterilised it . Need to make use of all that stuff I bought!

Pea puffers or a tropical tank...

Thanks again for all your advice

 

Well, I have some sad news.

Unfortunately Forrest passed away tonight.

Not the outcome I wanted but at least he's no longer suffering.

As I was inspecting him I noticed these tiny thin white/transparent worms squirming around on him. So I think cod can be attributed to some type of external/internal parasite?

Hopefully this thread can of some use to others

Thanks to everyone for their advice and support, much appreciated

This is the little guy you worked so hard to get better isn’t it !! That makes me sad I’m so sorry Fawkes21

 

I like the pea puffer idea. They are so cute! Are they not tropical? Never kept them either, but I love how they can be tong trained to eat bloodworms, so cute!

 

This is the little guy you worked so hard to get better isn’t it !! That makes me sad I’m so sorry Fawkes21

It is sadly

I think he was sick when I got him though.

My only comfort is that he's no longer suffering.

I'll occupy myself by setting up the 20 gallon for some pea puffers and maybe getting another oranda

 

I was gonna say it looked like anchor worms, but those are just a parasite that would have died by now, it is not actual worms, but colonies of parasites, like costia.

 

I like the pea puffer idea. They are so cute! Are they not tropical? Never kept them either, but I love how they can be tong trained to eat bloodworms, so cute!

I think so. But I have a heater so that shouldnt be a problem.

They are so adorable! And they they bags of personality too

 

I was gonna say it looked like anchor worms, but those are just a parasite that would have died by now, it is not actual worms, but colonies of parasites, like costia.

They seemed small to be anchor worms though. I read somewhere that leeches could look like ich and the weird strands he had did look like ich.

His concave belly, refusal to eat food and the strands suggest it was something internal/parasitic but I have no idea what.

I had treated him with mblue and paraguard so I would have thought that would have killed off any parasites, external ones anyway.

 

If you want to kill internal parasites, you need metronidazole.......
Worms, you use levimasole for roundworm/nematode, and praziquentel for flatworm/trematodes. BUT.....

end of the day, fish in nature are infested with parasites, and they fight them off. Your never gonna have 100% bacteria or parasite free fish tanks, expesically tanks with substrate.
My tanks are all bare bottom.
I'm not trying to be rude, but instead of chasing some "internal parasite" you should read up, most of those don't cause problems like what your describing.
Might be a good time to do some research on parasites on fish, there are TONS of them, parasites are more destructive than bacteria or virus ever will be.

In my experiences, goldfish are just prone to swim bladder problems and no amount of "meds" fixes anything, in fact no amount of veggies fixes anything either. Water quality is what I preach, and don't cause stress by moving them a lot or overfeeding then starving. Fish in nature graze on live food that contains a lot of moisture, dry feed can cause swim bladder and constipation
You should try mysis shrimp, frozen. And you can also feed peas and spinach on a regular basis to goldfish, they are carp after all.

You could go buy some shrimp from the grocery store, and a can of spinach, mix it up and feed it to them a little at a time. Then re-freeze

Look at the ingredients on fish food, fish don't eat wheat meal in nature. It can be poorly digested.

 

Agree, cycled tank cannot be antibacterial. Unless your pH is below 5 like some of the antiseptic Amazon waters, every tank has bacteria. But I do think I can prevent any parasites with prophylaxis in QT.

Which internal parasite did you treat for again? You used Meth blue and Paraguard, maybe salt or Epsom Salts? Those are all for external parasites I think.

 

If you want to kill internal parasites, you need metronidazole.......
Worms, you use levimasole for roundworm/nematode, and praziquentel for flatworm/trematodes. BUT.....

end of the day, fish in nature are infested with parasites, and they fight them off. Your never gonna have 100% bacteria or parasite free fish tanks, expesically tanks with substrate.
My tanks are all bare bottom.
I'm not trying to be rude, but instead of chasing some "internal parasite" you should read up, most of those don't cause problems like what your describing.
Might be a good time to do some research on parasites on fish, there are TONS of them, parasites are more destructive than bacteria or virus ever will be.

In my experiences, goldfish are just prone to swim bladder problems and no amount of "meds" fixes anything, in fact no amount of veggies fixes anything either. Water quality is what I preach, and don't cause stress by moving them a lot or overfeeding then starving. Fish in nature graze on live food that contains a lot of moisture, dry feed can cause swim bladder and constipation
You should try mysis shrimp, frozen. And you can also feed peas and spinach on a regular basis to goldfish, they are carp after all.

You could go buy some shrimp from the grocery store, and a can of spinach, mix it up and feed it to them a little at a time. Then re-freeze

Look at the ingredients on fish food, fish don't eat wheat meal in nature. It can be poorly digested.

I had treated him with Metroplex. Saw a slight improvement but he still died. Possible it was too late. As soon as those hair things appeared he was dead in 2 days.

I ordered some praziquantel but it came too late.

When he went belly up and stopped feeding, I ruled out water quality first, then digestion/constipation and an internal bacterial infection of the swim bladder caused by aeromanas/pseudomonas (I think that's the bacteria, correct me if I'm wrong ) . Slowly escalated treatment when I saw he was not improving. Came to the conclusion it was parasites based on fact he was spitting food out, shimmying, split fins not healing, concave belly and those weird hairs but that's just an educated guess. He was also an import from Thailand...so possible he came with something?

None of my other fish displayed those symptoms.

I also saw a worm thing crawl under his scale minutes after he died.

I did hours of research into parasites to try and find out what was wrong and nothing quite matched up to what I saw. Only thing that came close was flukes, though they don't look like what he had.

Avoid most sb problems by feeding my fish hikarI sinking pellets, live plants like salvinia/elodea, repashy green, blood worms, brine shrimp, bug bites and peas. They also graze on algae in my tank and eat the occasional resident bladder snail.

I'll see if I can get some live foods and raid my fridge for spinach!

 

Agree, cycled tank cannot be antibacterial. Unless your pH is below 5 like some of the antiseptic Amazon waters, every tank has bacteria. But I do think I can prevent any parasites with prophylaxis in QT.

Which internal parasite did you treat for again? You used Meth blue and Paraguard, maybe salt or Epsom Salts? Those are all for external parasites I think.

As soon I saw those weird white hairs (wwh) on Saturday I figured he might be suffering from sort of parasite problem.

He was swimming more but when he did so he would shimmy and chew furiously, as if trying to shake something Off. He also spat all food out, no matter how I delivered it or what it was...and I tried out all my foods plus hand feeding, pincers, chop sticks etc

I also noticed his gills were slightly curled and his belly was soft and slightly concave so that seemed to confirm my suspicions it was a parasite problem as I had read that the aforementioned symptoms could be caused by parasites, particularly flukes.

Until then I had come to the conclusion, having ruled out water quality and constipation, that his being belly up at the surface and unable to really swim might be due to an internal bacterial infection causing an inflamed swim bladder. Read a ton of articles which seemed to support that idea.

Apart from him being belly up, he had no visible external symptoms, apart from some costia induced fin fraying that was healing. The mblue treatment I did had also killed off all the ich and costia, so I really didn't think parasites could be responsible until much later.

Then those wwh appeared so I dosed some paraguard and some Metroplex into the tank to take care of any external/internal parasites.

He seemed to perk but those wwh kept spreading..they were even some on/in his eye!! That's when he tired and became weaker and he died shortly after

I treated the costia with mblue and by increasing the temp
3 days later, all signs of infection gone
Then a few days later he started spitting food out and went belly up at surface
Did wc, params all fine
Dosed epsom, gave him pea and fasted. No improvements after 4 days. Fed him some minI bug bites. Noticed poo long, white and mucousy
Did wc
Dosed kanaplex and furan-2 for suspected internal infection, no change after a week
Gave Forrest a med break and did another wc, added new seeded filter media to filters
Noticed wwh, dosed paraguard and Metroplex. He seemed perkier and I really thought he was recovering but he died 2 days later


Hoping that all makes sense!

 

Anchor worms can cause internal and external symptoms.....
You don't use praziquentel or metro, you use an ick medicine,again.... its a parasite, not worms!

Anchor Worm Symptoms - Fish | petMD

I really think you need to read into anchor worms, when I had it, it caused secondary fin rot, a lot of what ive read on this thread, suggests that the "mystery parasite" that you are trying to identify is in fact anchor worms.....



. And although the parasite can infect any fish, pond fishes are most susceptible. Once attached to the fish's skin, it buries its head deep into the muscle tissue.






A fish infected with anchor worms will have red and inflamed skin irritations. Take a closer look, and you can see the parasite's body sticking out, appearing like whitish-green threads.

 

Anchor worms can cause internal and external symptoms.....
You don't use praziquentel or metro, you use an ick medicine,again.... its a parasite, not worms!

Anchor Worm Symptoms - Fish | petMD

I really think you need to read into anchor worms, when I had it, it caused secondary fin rot, a lot of what ive read on this thread, suggests that the "mystery parasite" that you are trying to identify is in fact anchor worms.....



. And although the parasite can infect any fish, pond fishes are most susceptible. Once attached to the fish's skin, it buries its head deep into the muscle tissue.






A fish infected with anchor worms will have red and inflamed skin irritations. Take a closer look, and you can see the parasite's body sticking out, appearing like whitish-green threads.

When I looked at Forrests wwh I didn't see the forktail or any redness, and they were a lot smaller than pics of anchor worms I see online.... So maybe 'baby' anchor worms?